Islam, is it a religion of peace or war?

#226
#226
Imagine if we took the extremists of every group and treated them as if they were the majority
 
#227
#227
Roustabout said:
The Bible teaches that writhin the geography of Israel there were strict moral rules and that those rules were confined to that people group and were not to be imposed on other nations or enforced outside its borders. The rules applied to all sexually deviant behavior, or just homosexuality.
Click to expand...

Where does it say this explicitly about homosexuality and its punishment? Does it say to not kill gays outside of Israel? How do you know this is part of the OT law only. I'm legitimately curious about this; the answers I've found online are pretty unsatisfying.

The verse I quoted said that it is an abomination--I'm assuming that part hasn't changed in your mind. Interesting that Jesus crucifixion and resurrection only affected the punishment and not the law itself in this case.

Furthermore, Jesus' disciples had disagreements as to whether the law was still binding, so it's not hard to see why radical Christians might think this applies today. What I said is still the case regardless--the Bible does command the killing of gays. Whether you think that still applies, or only ever applied in a specific geographical region, seems to be a matter of opinion.
 
#228
#228
joevol33 said:
I'm not arguing which is best, or anything. I only know one well, and she converted and her brothers said they'd kill her if she ever came back to Chicago. My whole point isn't necessarily the Muslim, it's the hypocritical liberals in here who only show up in threads when it's a white person, and never comment, or condemn Mullins when there's a story. Let it be a white guy, and they show up throwing the word Christian around.
Click to expand...

That's not true. Typically, when a Muslim does something horrible the thread starts off with all the conservatives talking about how the liberals won't condemn the act. They do and then it turns to well Muslims won't. Then it turns into the same garbage we have in this thread.

Let me outline a very simple position. I support the Christians right to worship their God. I don't want prayer in school or in any government entity. I support the Muslims right to worship Allah. I don't want the view pushed on me. I support everyone's right to worship anything they want. I don't want to pay for it or be forced to partake or punished for not partaking. I don't support one religion over another. I don't support any religion.
 
#229
#229
ClearwaterVol said:
That's not true. Typically, when a Muslim does something horrible the thread starts off with all the conservatives talking about how the liberals won't condemn the act. They do and then it turns to well Muslims won't. Then it turns into the same garbage we have in this thread.

Let me outline a very simple position. I support the Christians right to worship their God. I don't want prayer in school or in any government entity. I support the Muslims right to worship Allah. I don't want the view pushed on me. I support everyone's right to worship anything they want. I don't want to pay for it or be forced to partake or punished for not partaking. I don't support one religion over another. I don't support any religion.
Click to expand...

Being a father of a teenage girl, I'd suspect you'd mutter "Please Lord, give me just a bit more patience..." quite often.
 
#230
#230
Wafflestomper said:
Where does it say this explicitly about homosexuality and its punishment? Does it say to not kill gays outside of Israel? How do you know this is part of the OT law only. I'm legitimately curious about this; the answers I've found online are pretty unsatisfying.

The verse I quoted said that it is an abomination--I'm assuming that part hasn't changed in your mind. Interesting that Jesus crucifixion and resurrection only affected the punishment and not the law itself in this case.

Furthermore, Jesus' disciples had disagreements as to whether the law was still binding, so it's not hard to see why radical Christians might think this applies today. What I said is still the case regardless--the Bible does command the killing of gays. Whether you think that still applies, or only ever applied in a specific geographical region, seems to be a matter of opinion.
Click to expand...
Argument from silence.
You are trying to paint the OT as if there was some concentrated effort to spotlight homosexuality. Actually, very little is said on the matter. In fact there are two verses, that’s it. And that is in the context of a myriad of prohibited behaviors. It’s also in the context of being directed specifically to Israel. Lev 18:1.

Period, end of story.
What’s funny is you seem to have no consideration that homosexual behavior might actually be wrong.
 
#231
#231
marcusluvsvols said:
...and you claiming the degree before, and now the university, is an appeal to authority...a logical fallacy. Its not the same God. The moment they added a slew of new commands that are hate and lying, rape and murder, they quit praying to the same God as Christians do. If you have a theologu degree, then you know that God is immutable, unchanging. He also never, ever tells man to sin...such as lying and deceiving the "infidel", God will not dwell where there is sin, He hates sin and makes that clear. If, and thats a big if...IF a god told all muslims to lie and deceive anyone besides muslims in order to conquer them...it was a different god, not God Almighty, the great I AM.

What is the very 1st verse in the Bible?

God says that He IS the Word. Thats how important it is to him. When the muslims changed the word of god, by adding all those suras about lying and killing the infidel, when they added anything that isnt the OT, they changed the word of god and changed gods.

What is the last verse in the Bible?

A solemn warning not to do exactly what they did. Jesus is foretold many times in the OT..there is no mention at all of muhammed, anywhere in either testament. Because he was a false prophet.

Any religion that teaches that the followers of Jesus Christ are the enemy, also leading them to reject Christ as Messiah, is a tool of satan and will lead its followers to damnation. There is a reason that the 1st and last verses of the Bible both mention Gods word. It is how He and his nature, His will for our lives is revealed to mankind.

FTR, I am not a "king james only " bible thumper or legalist. Christianity is about a relationship, not a religion. It is a mans relationship with Christ that gives salvation, and his relationship with his fellow man is how one lives out their faith. I would love to learn enough to be able to translate the textus receptus myself, as well as other pld texts in the original language they were recorded. I have read all of the apocrypha that i know of, and many other texts. I dont know that the KJ version is perfect, but i believe it is certainly the Word of God, and is consistent in showing His character. Context is always very important.

The quran is clearly very much opposed to the teachings of Christ, and God the father. It is nothing like the Word of God, because it is about some god of wrath and lies, or is complete fiction that is a tool of the devil. Regardless, it is not the Word of the God of the Bible, and thats all that matters.

Its content and commands do not and will not ever mesh with the western world or the US, which has a society based on democracy, equality, personal freedom, etc
Click to expand...

You first claimed authority by saying your Dad went to Carson Newman and he agreed with your opinion. I only mentioned a part of my academic background to counter.

There have been Muslims in America since the colonists arrived. Pres. Washington wrote a commendation to one who fought in the Revolutionary War. They make up 1% of the US population and seem to be good citizens like everyone else.
 
#232
#232
As long as government stays out of religion, and religion stays out of government, I say live and let live.
 
#233
#233
Roustabout said:
Argument from silence.
You are trying to paint the OT as if there was some concentrated effort to spotlight homosexuality. Actually, very little is said on the matter. In fact there are two verses, that’s it. And that is in the context of a myriad of prohibited behaviors. It’s also in the context of being directed specifically to Israel. Lev 18:1.

Period, end of story.
What’s funny is you seem to have no consideration that homosexual behavior might actually be wrong.
Click to expand...

Why is it wrong?
 
#234
#234
ClearwaterVol said:
That's not true. Typically, when a Muslim does something horrible the thread starts off with all the conservatives talking about how the liberals won't condemn the act. They do and then it turns to well Muslims won't. Then it turns into the same garbage we have in this thread.

Let me outline a very simple position. I support the Christians right to worship their God. I don't want prayer in school or in any government entity. I support the Muslims right to worship Allah. I don't want the view pushed on me. I support everyone's right to worship anything they want. I don't want to pay for it or be forced to partake or punished for not partaking. I don't support one religion over another. I don't support any religion.
Click to expand...
Sure seemed hard for anybody to say that when I asked 100 times. I have no problem with your views, I just question some who I must've missed seeing them condemn anybody except when it's a white person. I know we have a thread in here that's usually got a story every day, and conservatives are the only ones in there, mostly. I know there's crazy white people, and crazy christians, but there's crazy in every race. Be fair, condemn it all is my view. Heck, ol purple said"it wasn't his place to judge" when I asked him if it was wrong when they kill. That's the stuff that irks me.
 
#235
#235
Wafflestomper said:
Where does it say this explicitly about homosexuality and its punishment? Does it say to not kill gays outside of Israel? How do you know this is part of the OT law only. I'm legitimately curious about this; the answers I've found online are pretty unsatisfying.

The verse I quoted said that it is an abomination--I'm assuming that part hasn't changed in your mind. Interesting that Jesus crucifixion and resurrection only affected the punishment and not the law itself in this case.

Furthermore, Jesus' disciples had disagreements as to whether the law was still binding, so it's not hard to see why radical Christians might think this applies today. What I said is still the case regardless--the Bible does command the killing of gays. Whether you think that still applies, or only ever applied in a specific geographical region, seems to be a matter of opinion.
Click to expand...
Can you link videos of a Baptist, Pentecostal, etc. telling their congregation to go out and kill gay people? Yesterday was Sunday, surely there's a fresh video?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigO95, Roustabout, NYCVolunteer and 1 other person
#236
#236
Of course not, they argue from a position of ignorance. " scoffers, blinded, after their own lusts..etc"

Never ceases to amaze me when people are intent on arguing about a book they never read or studied, about a God they claim doesnt exist.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 82_VOL_83, BigO95 and joevol33
#237
#237
Grand Vol said:
Being a father of a teenage girl, I'd suspect you'd mutter "Please Lord, give me just a bit more patience..." quite often.
Click to expand...

One needs the patience of Job when dealing with a teenage daughter. She is currently in the stage where she uses the word literally in almost every conversation. That alone grinds my gears.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joevol33
#238
#238
marcusluvsvols said:
Of course not, they argue from a position of ignorance. " scoffers, blinded, after their own lusts..etc"

Never ceases to amaze me when people are intent on arguing about a book they never read or studied, about a God they claim doesnt exist.
Click to expand...

So, you don't see the irony in that position?
 
#240
#240
ClearwaterVol said:
So, you don't see the irony in that position?
Click to expand...

No, because as i have told you before, i have read the quran in its entirety. Simply asked you to do the same. Apparently you would rather take the word of a muslim, who has been specifically told to lie and deceive you about their intentions and desire to subvert and conquer. Thats your choice. I chose to read for myself and draw my own conclusions.
 
#241
#241
We as believers in Christ need to be strong enough in the faith to condemn, with love, what is wrong. With love stand up for what is right. And, be as a lamb going to slaughter when adversaries ( within our own religion, other religions, atheists, and those who could care less ) lay hold of us. God help me to have this faith. My thoughts on the subject. My own personal fear and weakness before all, and prayer to God, in the name of Jesus. For He ( Father, if it be thy will, let this cup pass from Me, he said. For, the fear and the expectation of suffering / pain was now upon Him ) is our example ( though God, and all powerful, was harmless as the sheep to be slaughtered. He took the pain, took the mocking, and still said " Father forgive them for they know not what they do " ). May I ( my prayer for help ), as someone who professes His name, be able to stand, and fall, as He did.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joevol33
#242
#242
ClearwaterVol said:
One needs the patience of Job when dealing with a teenage daughter. She is currently in the stage where she uses the word literally in almost every conversation. That alone grinds my gears.
Click to expand...

My wife got in the habit of talking that way for a bit, i guess from talking to my teen and preteen kids. Drove me insane. I would rather her say "actually " every sentence. Then at least she would be correct most of the time. Nails on a chalkboard
 
#243
#243
marcusluvsvols said:
No, because as i have told you before, i have read the quran in its entirety. Simply asked you to do the same. Apparently you would rather take the word of a muslim, who has been specifically told to lie and deceive you about their intentions and desire to subvert and conquer. Thats your choice. I chose to read for myself and draw my own conclusions.
Click to expand...

Okay Marcus. "Never ceases to amaze me when people are intent on arguing about a book they never read or studied, about a God they claim doesnt exist."

Is just reading the Bible sufficient to argue? Or must I study it? Can I do both and still argue regarding a god that I claim doesn't exist or must I believe?

You claim to have read the Quran, but you haven't studied it. You claim that your interpretation is the only one, yet muslim scholars disagree and debate its meaning. They use historical context and related passages to gain understanding while you cherry pick out passages that suit your purpose.

When someone does that with the bible you get defensive. For example, the bible does permit me to beat my slaves, right?
 
#244
#244
ClearwaterVol said:
One needs the patience of Job when dealing with a teenage daughter. She is currently in the stage where she uses the word literally in almost every conversation. That alone grinds my gears.
Click to expand...
We'll probably never see eye to eye in this forum much, but posts like this I feel you. I have 3 girls, oldest in in the Air Force now, middle one is 14, and the youngest is 11. Can't do anything except deal with their words, literally 😆
 
#245
#245
joevol33 said:
We'll probably never see eye to eye in this forum much, but posts like this I feel you. I have 3 girls, oldest in in the Air Force now, middle one is 14, and the youngest is 11. Can't do anything except deal with their words, literally 😆
Click to expand...

Good luck, my man. We probably have more common ground that you realize.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joevol33
#246
#246
So if we concede that there are evil people that kill in the name of their God whether that be Jesus, Allah, or whatever, what number of these would you assign to each. Are there millions of Christians that believe that you should kill in the name of Jesus? Are there millions of Christians that actually kill non-believers in the name of Jesus? What about Muslims? Are there millions of Muslims that believe or actually kill other, non-believers? Percentages?
 
#247
#247
InVOLuntary said:
So if we concede that there are evil people that kill in the name of their God whether that be Jesus, Allah, or whatever, what number of these would you assign to each. Are there millions of Christians that believe that you should kill in the name of Jesus? Are there millions of Christians that actually kill non-believers in the name of Jesus? What about Muslims? Are there millions of Muslims that believe or actually kill other, non-believers? Percentages?
Click to expand...
Hard to actually know, IMO, as the motives of many killers are never truly clear.
 
#248
#248
ClearwaterVol said:
Okay Marcus. "Never ceases to amaze me when people are intent on arguing about a book they never read or studied, about a God they claim doesnt exist."

Is just reading the Bible sufficient to argue? Or must I study it? Can I do both and still argue regarding a god that I claim doesn't exist or must I believe?

You claim to have read the Quran, but you haven't studied it. You claim that your interpretation is the only one, yet muslim scholars disagree and debate its meaning. They use historical context and related passages to gain understanding while you cherry pick out passages that suit your purpose.

When someone does that with the bible you get defensive. For example, the bible does permit me to beat my slaves, right?
Click to expand...

First, i never claimed my interpretation is the only one, simply asked you and anyone else who thinks its a religion of peace to read it for themselves...and offered my conclusions. Again, the suras that tell them to lie and kill are not metaphor or some complex thought, they are, in english anyway, very cut and dried.

As to the beating slaves part, do we really need to go over the difference between the NT and the OT...again for the 500th time...or that Christ made a new covenant, and many of the OT stuff no longer applies? I guess you would have a valid point if i were a Jew, and didnt believe Christ was Messiah, or the NT. Thats not me though.
 
#249
#249
marcusluvsvols said:
First, i never claimed my interpretation is the only one, simply asked you and anyone else who thinks its a religion of peace to read it for themselves...and offered my conclusions. Again, the suras that tell them to lie and kill are not metaphor or some complex thought, they are, in english anyway, very cut and dried.

As to the beating slaves part, do we really need to go over the difference between the NT and the OT...again for the 500th time...or that Christ made a new covenant, and many of the OT stuff no longer applies? I guess you would have a valid point if i were a Jew, and didnt believe Christ was Messiah, or the NT. Thats not me though.
Click to expand...

So, as Christians, you have removed the OT from your Bible?

But what I am having a hard time with is that you claim God is immutable. Therefore, since God says in the OT that it is okay to beat your slaves... why is it still not okay?
 
#250
#250
Weezer said:
Hard to actually know, IMO, as the motives of many killers are never truly clear.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a reach to say there are many more Muslims, in the world, that want and do try and kill non-Muslims than there are Christians that try and kill Muslims in the name of their God.

Fun Fact: If you type the word "Christian" in the Chrome browser, without capitalizing it, Google spell check accepts it as a correctly spelled word. You type in the word "Muslim" without capitalizing it underlines it as an incorrectly spelled word. Hmmmm.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top