Islam, is it a religion of peace or war?

[USMC-TNVOL]

I thought it was spot on since you completely ignored the New Testament.

Plus I’m not going to miss an opportunity to take a shot at a Marine.

You can’t say the Old Testament is completely ignored now because of the New. People’s morals changed and improved over time but not through and because of religion. Like I said you had nothing to add that refuted mine.

 

[hog88]

You can’t say the Old Testament is completely ignored now because of the New. People’s morals changed and improved over time but not through and because of religion. Like I said you had nothing to add that refuted mine.

The entire doctrine of Christianity is based off of the New Testament but now that you have backed off and are talking about organized religion in general we can agree to a point.

Glad you recognized the error in your post.

 

[USMC-TNVOL]

The entire doctrine of Christianity is based off of the New Testament but now that you have backed off and are talking about organized religion in general we can agree to a point.

Glad you recognized the error in your post.

You’re basically saying Christians ignore the Old Testament teachings. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[hog88]

You’re basically saying Christians ignore the Old Testament teachings. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

Well minus the extremely small minority, they don’t stone people, kill blasphemers, or “marry” 13 year old girls anymore and haven’t for a 100+ years.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Christianity is called by that name because the central figure and key to the entire religion is Christ...whose birth and life are all entirely in the New Testament. To be a Christian is to "try and live by Christs example, to worship and love as He did."

Man lived under the Law of Moses in the OT...when Christ came, God made a New Covenant with mankind...a path to redemption through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. No, the OT is not completely ignored...but to Christian's it is clear that we no longer live under the weight of the laws of the OT, nor are we to practice the ways of the OT....in fact, nearly all of the OT was God speaking to the Jews and was not ever intended for Gentiles at all. This is a VERY important distinction.

Others here like OC can elaborate...but this is about the 500th person to think they understand Christianity and throw the "Abrahamic" term around...

Let's go ahead and get this one out of the way for the 500th time too...

Muslims do NOT pray to and worship the same God as Christians.. no matter what your social studies teacher told you.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I thought it was spot on since you completely ignored the New Testament.

Plus I’m not going to miss an opportunity to take a shot at a Marine.

Marines are on our side... thank God.

 

[0nelilreb]

Marines are on our side... thank God.

Gotta love those crazy crayon eaters . Lol

 

[hog88]

Christianity is called by that name because the central figure and key to the entire religion is Christ...whose birth and life are all entirely in the New Testament. To be a Christian is to "try and live by Christs example, to worship and love as He did."

Man lived under the Law of Moses in the OT...when Christ came, God made a New Covenant with mankind...a path to redemption through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. No, the OT is not completely ignored...but to Christian's it is clear that we no longer live under the weight of the laws of the OT, nor are we to practice the ways of the OT....in fact, nearly all of the OT was God speaking to the Jews and was not ever intended for Gentiles at all. This is a VERY important distinction.

Others here like OC can elaborate...but this is about the 500th person to think they understand Christianity and throw the "Abrahamic" term around...

Let's go ahead and get this one out of the way for the 500th time too...

Muslims do NOT pray to and worship the same God as Christians.. no matter what your social studies teacher told you.

Yeah they do.

 

[hog88]

Marines are on our side... thank God.

Somebody has to keep the Navy entertained on those long floats.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

No. No they dont. I am not going to argue this point for the 500th time...but OC has expounded on it several times. Even in this thread. Allah is not the God of Isaac and Jacob, of the Holy Bible. My God has never commanded anyone to lie, kill the infidel, or many other things that allah has supposedly said and done. My God is love, and meekness...power under control. A 3 part entity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He was made flesh and lived a sinless life down on His ant farm among lowly humans. Allah is apparently a god of death who supposedly judges every man on a giant set of scales like a triple beam balance in science class. If a muzzie supposedly does 1 more good deed than bad, and tips his scales in favor of good, he is allowed in their paradise. My God sent Christ as a sacrifice, and true belief and worship are all that is needed to go to Heaven and spend eternity with God. There are so many differences between God and allah that it is crazy to think they are one and the same for anyone who has studied both, or is a religious scholar.

 

[AshG]

Mo spent significant time in North Africa, in and around the sphere of influence of the early Catholic Church. If you look at Islam from a foundational standpoint you'll find that it's actually a slagged together mix of Catholic and Arabian nomadic mythologies.

If it weren't for Mo having the gold to recruit armies who would worship any god for the right amount of coin, it likely would have died off relatively quickly.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

Indians were Muslim? Who knew?

 

[Roustabout]

You can’t say the Old Testament is completely ignored now because of the New. People’s morals changed and improved over time but not through and because of religion. Like I said you had nothing to add that refuted mine.

Did they change for the better?

 

[Purple Tiger]

No. No they dont. I am not going to argue this point for the 500th time...but OC has expounded on it several times. Even in this thread. Allah is not the God of Isaac and Jacob, of the Holy Bible. My God has never commanded anyone to lie, kill the infidel, or many other things that allah has supposedly said and done. My God is love, and meekness...power under control. A 3 part entity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He was made flesh and lived a sinless life down on His ant farm among lowly humans. Allah is apparently a god of death who supposedly judges every man on a giant set of scales like a triple beam balance in science class. If a muzzie supposedly does 1 more good deed than bad, and tips his scales in favor of good, he is allowed in their paradise. My God sent Christ as a sacrifice, and true belief and worship are all that is needed to go to Heaven and spend eternity with God. There are so many differences between God and allah that it is crazy to think they are one and the same for anyone who has studied both, or is a religious scholar.

The above is truly a steaming pile of horse $hit. With regard to God calling for vioience, God told Israel to kill everyone who was living in Canaan.

Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same God the Father or God the Creator. To deny that is to display ignorance in the face of 1400 years of Muslim/Jewish/Christian history. The only people who think Muslims worship another God are evangelical fundamentalists. Every other informed Christian denomination believes in the Abrahamic tradition.

 

[Orangeslice13]

While I agree that all three beliefs come from the same source or spirit that is G-d the father, all three have a very different understanding of Him and his nature. The three understandings can not be reconciled. Either 2 of them or all 3 are wrong. Messiah did say on the day of judgment that “many” will think they are G-ds people and will be cast out for being unknown to messiah and the practice of lawlessness.

most people should probably focus on worrying about themselves

 

[AshG]

I've been chewing on this question while stuck in bed (Flu B, yech) because something didn't quite settle with me. You have my previous comment - Islam as Catholic/Bedouin mashup, kept alive by paid armies - and plenty of historical (and current) evidence that backs up the underlying principles. But, and there is a huge "but" here, western civilization as we know it would not exist if it weren't for early Abayyad Caliphates and Islamic Empires.

Expert: Muslims -- and astrology -- saved civilization, in cooperation with Jews and Christians | Cornell Chronicle

While our forebears were dying by the millions from the plague and European trade, commerce, travel, etc. were shut down, the Caliphates were busy translating Greek works - not just the major ones - into Arabic for study and prosperity. And they weren't doing it alone. From the above article:

"Although the translations of Greek texts were paid for and supervised by Muslims, the work was mostly done by Christian monks and Jews who first translated the works into Syriac, a Semitic language, and then into Arabic, he said. "The Muslims saving civilization were doing it in cooperation with Christians and Jews," said Adamson. "

Definitely not a confrontational relationship between the three Abrahamic strains at this time. As the caliphates grew and assimilated countries and cultures, they made as much as they could available to their people - they shared the wealth. And it paid dividends.

"The study of Arabic philosophy is crucial to understanding Western thought, Adamson said, because Arabic was a unifying language for philosophical and theological discussions for Christian, Jewish and Islamic scholars. Both Thomas Aquinas and Maimonides studied Avicenna and learned Aristotle through Arabic translations."

Ok, ok, I'm typing up a storm because I'm glad to finally be out of bed. I'll cut to the chase.

Everything goes to heck when you've got people in charge who control the interpretation.

Why the Arabic World Turned Away from Science

One hadith - a saying of Mohammed - is "Seek knowledge, even in China." Mohammed doesn't mention religious knowledge or scientific knowledge, and it's left to the Mullahs to put words in his mouth about which type he meant. If you come from one of the hardline mystic branches, would you interpret the prophet to mean scientific knowledge? Why would a prophet of Allah tell his people to seek earthly knowledge?

This mindset quickly translated into occasionalism (every occasion is directed by Allah, for Allah's purpose and glory), the cornerstone of Ash'arism that would quickly become Sunni, the largest denomination within Islam. Every enemy is a gift of Allah, incapable of their own thoughts or actions. This swept across northern Africa and into the Middle East, wiping out the Mu'tazilism sect that espoused inquiry and discovery, even in law; why bother creating complex legal codes and documenting trials and juries when the Koran has everything you need right there?

A point to ponder is the political connection. Christianity started with an outsider, hated by the government of His time It took hundreds of years for the church to gain a strong foothold even advising governments. In Islam, Mohammed was the government. He was the leader, the Caliph; Islam began its existence in control of things. It's all they've ever known. It's baked right into the religion.

Around the twelfth century, after we had recovered from the Dark Ages and had gleaned back the knowledge saved for us by the people we were about to go to war with, after Ash'arism had taken its authoritarian claws to the more philosophically minded sects, we diverged again. And unlike the first time, when they saved our civilization, they would not let us help them beyond individual profit or advantage when we came looking for mutual benefit.

"There was a modest rebirth of science in the Arabic world in the nineteenth century due largely to Napoleon’s 1798 expedition to Egypt, but it was soon followed by decline. Lewis notes in What Went Wrong? that “The relationship between Christendom and Islam in the sciences was now reversed. Those who had been disciples now became teachers; those who had been masters became pupils, often reluctant and resentful pupils.” The civilization that had produced cities, libraries, and observatories and opened itself to the world had now regressed and become closed, resentful, violent, and hostile to discourse and innovation. "

It's who is in control of the translation that counts.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

The above is truly a steaming pile of horse $hit. With regard to God calling for vioience, God told Israel to kill everyone who was living in Canaan.

Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same God the Father or God the Creator. To deny that is to display ignorance in the face of 1400 years of Muslim/Jewish/Christian history. The only people who think Muslims worship another God are evangelical fundamentalists. Every other informed Christian denomination believes in the Abrahamic tradition.

You would think that a person such as yourself would get tired of getting your butt absolutely handed to you on matters of scripture and the Christian faith....OC absolutely embarrassed you to the point in the other threads that a person with ANY SENSE of humility, dignity, or even common sense would just SHUT UP AND QUIT GETTING PUNKED ABOUT RELIGION THAT YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND...but no. I guess you are a glutton for punishment.

Abraham who did in fact impregnate the mothers (2) who gave birth to Isaac and Jacob, (1 remained Jew, 1 was direct line to Christ) and the bastard Ishmael (whose descendants founded islam. This HUMAN GENETIC COINCIDENCE is why the 3 religions are called Abrahamic. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the spiritual makeup, origins, or differences between the Biblical God of the legitimate 2 sons, and the fictitious god of hate, murder, commanded lies, killing gays, female genital mutilation etc...whose "prophet" muhammad wed a GIRL AT 6 YEARS OLD AND HAD SEX WITH HER AT 9 YEARS OLD. That god of lies and his pedophile "prophet" have absolutely NOTHING to do with the God of the Bible.

Nothing. They are not even similar. I have read every sura of the Quran in its entirety. They tried to copy most of the OT from the Bible, then added a whole bunch of "commands" from THEIR god ...which are SIN and the OPPOSITE of what the real God commands his followers to do. Period.

For you to say that they are the same God shows how ignorant you are on the subject. I could list easily a dozen ways that they are exact opposites...that their commands and scripture are complete opposites...and you are a fool. The lie that you spread is a tool that the devil uses to drive people away from the only REAL God. " all 3 of these religions have the same God but they are totally different...so none of them can be true.." that is a lie straight from Hell. Older than anyone who posts here .

I am not doing this again. I will let OC...who Is a Pastor and a great human being...come show you where you are dead wrong ..again...and again...if he feels like your ignorance is even worth his time again. I am not wasting my time on you troll...

You have succeeded in making everyone in the PF except maybe Mick or Luther hate you in all of about a week. Congrats. What does that say about you and the childish way that you insult people? Why would anyone here respect what you have to say or ever consider it? Lol...trolls are a waste of oxygen.

 

[Roustabout]

The above is truly a steaming pile of horse $hit. With regard to God calling for vioience, God told Israel to kill everyone who was living in Canaan.

Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same God the Father or God the Creator. To deny that is to display ignorance in the face of 1400 years of Muslim/Jewish/Christian history. The only people who think Muslims worship another God are evangelical fundamentalists. Every other informed Christian denomination believes in the Abrahamic tradition.

Is Jesus God?

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

 

[Purple Tiger]

You would think that a person such as yourself would get tired of getting your butt absolutely handed to you on matters of scripture and the Christian faith....OC absolutely embarrassed you to the point in the other threads that a person with ANY SENSE of humility, dignity, or even common sense would just SHUT UP AND QUIT GETTING PUNKED ABOUT RELIGION THAT YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND...but no. I guess you are a glutton for punishment.

Abraham who did in fact impregnate the mothers (2) who gave birth to Isaac and Jacob, (1 remained Jew, 1 was direct line to Christ) and the bastard Ishmael (whose descendants founded islam. This HUMAN GENETIC COINCIDENCE is why the 3 religions are called Abrahamic. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the spiritual makeup, origins, or differences between the Biblical God of the legitimate 2 sons, and the fictitious god of hate, murder, commanded lies, killing gays, female genital mutilation etc...whose "prophet" muhammad wed a GIRL AT 6 YEARS OLD AND HAD SEX WITH HER AT 9 YEARS OLD. That god of lies and his pedophile "prophet" have absolutely NOTHING to do with the God of the Bible.

Nothing. They are not even similar. I have read every sura of the Quran in its entirety. They tried to copy most of the OT from the Bible, then added a whole bunch of "commands" from THEIR god ...which are SIN and the OPPOSITE of what the real God commands his followers to do. Period.

For you to say that they are the same God shows how ignorant you are on the subject. I could list easily a dozen ways that they are exact opposites...that their commands and scripture are complete opposites...and you are a fool. The lie that you spread is a tool that the devil uses to drive people away from the only REAL God. " all 3 of these religions have the same God but they are totally different...so none of them can be true.." that is a lie straight from Hell. Older than anyone who posts here .

I am not doing this again. I will let OC...who Is a Pastor and a great human being...come show you where you are dead wrong ..again...and again...if he feels like your ignorance is even worth his time again. I am not wasting my time on you troll...

You have succeeded in making everyone in the PF except maybe Mick or Luther hate you in all of about a week. Congrats. What does that say about you and the childish way that you insult people? Why would anyone here respect what you have to say or ever consider it? Lol...trolls are a waste of oxygen.

I have yet to have my butt handed to me on matters of Christian theology, and maybe OC (whoever that is) doesn't know as much as you think he/she does. We disagree on theology and you want to make it a matter of intelligence and knowledge. Just so you know, I have a Masters in Divinity. What kind of graduate theological education do you have? I don't say that to brag but to rebut your misguided belief I am lacking in Biblical, theological or historical knowledge. If I challenge your thoughts/beliefs, then answer that challenge like a mature Christian instead trying to belittle someone who may actually know more and think differently than you.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Something rarely heard in the PF:

You're right.

About part of this at least. I should refrain from discussing matters of Christianity here with most people . I dont have the patience to argue about it without coming across in a way that I dont like at all. This isnt new..so I try to avoid this and not sure why I didnt.

As to the point in question...it is what it is, and it's not my place to try and correct you. This exact subject has been hashed out in this thread and I doubt anyone feels like doing that again.

 

[Purple Tiger]

Something rarely heard in the PF:

You're right.

About part of this at least. I should refrain from discussing matters of Christianity here with most people . I dont have the patience to argue about it without coming across in a way that I dont like at all. This isnt new..so I try to avoid this and not sure why I didnt.

As to the point in question...it is what it is, and it's not my place to try and correct you. This exact subject has been hashed out in this thread and I doubt anyone feels like doing that again.

Me, too. I agree 100% with you. I always enjoy your posts - even if I disagree with them.

 

[KB5252]

I think we should hear both sides.

Yes, most Muslims are peaceful. That isn't the issue though, the issue is a significant portion of their religion are super militant. More so than any other religion out there, the question remains why?

I don't have the answer, just left with the question.