Israel vs Palestinians

[LSU-SIU]

Very few will cry if Iran's nuclear facilities are wiped out. Russia has little to give right now because they are being bled dry. The U.S. can just blow up those missiles before they are active if they want if they are transferred to the ME. Nuclear war! Nuclear war! Not gonna happen.

It has nothing to do with who is upset, all it takes is one. In this case Iran either has nuclear warheads, or nuclear material which can be used as dirty nukes. Neither outcome makes much sense.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Maybe time to dust this one off....

 

[Vol8188]

It has nothing to do with who is upset, all it takes is one. In this case Iran either has nuclear warheads, or nuclear material which can be used as dirty nukes. Neither outcome makes much sense.

The thing that makes sense to me is aiding Israel in total destruction of the Iranian nuclear program before they become a serious threat.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

They'd stone her to death if she lived there and acted the same. She has no loyalty.

She needs to be taken off the air. She's an anti-American POS.

But she does work for CNN so....

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

We should assist Israel in the full destruction of the Iranian nuclear program as a consequence for yesterdays attack

I'm thinking some refineries are gonna go boom.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

She needs to be taken off the air. She's an anti-American POS.

But she does work for CNN so....

They know what she is, and that's what they want. These are all NWO types and the United States as a super power is in their way.

 

[508mikey]

I'm thinking some refineries are gonna go boom.

Maybe some Palaces too

 

[85SugarVol]

You think calling a legit criticism a trope is working. Aipac is supposed legit lobbying group. Criticism of them is not antisemitic just because they happen to be jews. In fact I've said nothing about them being Jews. My criticism is the influence they have on all of Congress and the fact they should have to register under FARA.

This is exactly how the left calling everyone a racist works. You're forced to defend yourself instead of debating the actual topic. It's a terrible tactic

You’re just refusing to read/acknowledge anything that doesn’t suit you at this point.

I’ve given multiple criticisms of AIPAC.

AIPAC spends outsized money in local elections.
AIPAC should have to be registered under FARA.
AIPAC is an arm of the Israeli State.

None of that ^ is antisemitic.

When you resort to “AIPAC [Jews] own Congress” - you’re trafficking in tropes.

 

[McDad]

You’re just refusing to read/acknowledge anything that doesn’t suit you at this point.

I’ve given multiple criticisms of AIPAC.

AIPAC spends outsized money in local elections.
AIPAC should have to be registered under FARA.
AIPAC is an arm of the Israeli State.

None of that ^ is antisemitic.

When you resort to “AIPAC [Jews] own Congress” - you’re trafficking in tropes.

You seem to be up on AIPAC.

Where can a fella go to read non-partisan information on AIPAC?

 

[PEPPERJAX]

@Jewbaccah

 

[marcusluvsvols]

It has nothing to do with who is upset, all it takes is one. In this case Iran either has nuclear warheads, or nuclear material which can be used as dirty nukes. Neither outcome makes much sense.

Allowing Iran to ever have an operational nuclear warhead...especially with their existing missile technology...is absolute INSANITY to anyone with a modicum of knowledge, logic, reason, etc.

Any nation which openly calls for the destruction of Jews and/or Israel cannot be allowed to posess the single most devastating military device ever invented, one capable of killing millions of men, women, and children by a single warhead. This is a concept which either of my children could have thoroughly understood and drawn logical conclusions about at age 10 given the available information at a glance. These is no excuse for adults claiming ignorance of the situation.

There are already too many nations with nuclear weapons, and non-proliferation should be the goal of any government interested in the preservation of humanity and planet Earth. Iran is likely THE largest sponsor of terrorist organizations on Earth. I will state that again for the leftists: Iran is THE largest sponsor of terrorism and terrorist organizations on this planet. They should be prevented from obtaining, developing, and posessing nuclear warheads at all costs. We should work diligently and constantly if necessary to achieve this goal.

 

[85SugarVol]

You seem to be up on AIPAC.

Where can a fella go to read non-partisan information on AIPAC?

I was really just giving examples of what could be considered “legitimate” criticisms of AIPAC - I don’t necessarily agree with all of those.

@EasternVol usually can direct you to pretty detailed information. I imagine he could direct you to info on AIPAC. You would have to decide for yourself if it’s “non-partisan”.

 

[CobbVol]

You know we have a history of enabling weak and / or compliant dictatorships over democracies in that area don't you?

Sure do. I see it happening right now by this administration resurrecting Iran who was on the brink of change due to Trump sanctions.

 

[McDad]

I was really just giving examples of what could be considered “legitimate” criticisms of AIPAC - I don’t necessarily agree with all of those.

@EasternVol usually can direct you to pretty detailed information. I imagine he could direct you to info on AIPAC. You would have to decide for yourself if it’s “non-partisan”.

HMU @EasternVol

 

[CobbVol]

I continued searching for lobbies this morning. I am really curious if there is any substance to the claims AIPAC is the "strongest" and "owns" Congress or if those are simply parroted prejudice repeated in the blind.

I googled various descriptors in front of the word "lobby". Such as, "strongest", "most influential", "most effective", "largest", and "lobby with the best track record of favorable votes". The only resources (Open Secrets is usually the top hit) are listing results based on money spent / contributed.

Chamber of Commerce, Realtors, and Pharma are the strongest and most owning based on money spent.

If those who have a better understanding (@utvolpj and others) will direct me to something I can read while I work (video and audio no bueno), I would appreciate it.

There isn't. It was just the emotional outburst of one looking for perfection. And if they are the "strongest" and "owns" Congress, they suck at their job because Israel has received $260B since the end of WW2 or a little over $3B/year on average.

 

[EasternVol]

Sure do. I see it happening right now by this administration resurrecting Iran who was on the brink of change due to Trump sanctions.

They've been 'on the brink of change' for 20+ years. It would probably, depending on the successor, be good if those despots would step down but they're not about to. Ever wonder what that area would be like without the Dulles Bros. and the Brits?

 

[Gandalf]

I continued searching for lobbies this morning. I am really curious if there is any substance to the claims AIPAC is the "strongest" and "owns" Congress or if those are simply parroted prejudice repeated in the blind.

I googled various descriptors in front of the word "lobby". Such as, "strongest", "most influential", "most effective", "largest", and "lobby with the best track record of favorable votes". The only resources (Open Secrets is usually the top hit) are listing results based on money spent / contributed.

Chamber of Commerce, Realtors, and Pharma are the strongest and most owning based on money spent.

If those who have a better understanding (@utvolpj and others) will direct me to something I can read while I work (video and audio no bueno), I would appreciate it.

Really is hard to say, since as you point out, Big Pharma and other spend a ton too. I would say AIPAC is highly effective for the dollars they spend and most threatening in the way they do it. While they donate to candidates who follow their diktats like every other lobby group, they are a bit unique in that they tend to actively facilitate competitors to sitting legislators who arent onboard with them. I dont mean simply funding a competitor, I mean incubating a candidate and wholesale ground operations. There are other things I have credibly heard but am unwilling to repeat as to ways they put pressure on legislators and candidates. To be frank, they operate more like the Mossad.

Pharma does a lot of lobbying but their biggest impact is through control of the media because of their advertising spend. Groups like the Chamber exert big influence in DC but dont have much of a footprint really in the districts or states. The really scary ones to Congress are those who have sizeable DC presence but also have strong state chapters with deep local ties, like AARP.

I say all this as someone currently working for a prominent lobbying firm in the NE who has a variety of large clients and previously represented a current Presidential candidate (very bi-partisan group of mercenaries for hire though). Oh, and about half our partners are Jewish.

 

[McDad]

Really is hard to say, since as you point out, Big Pharma and other spend a ton too. I would say AIPAC is highly effective for the dollars they spend and most threatening in the way they do it. While they donate to candidates who follow their diktats like every other lobby group, they are a bit unique in that they tend to actively facilitate competitors to sitting legislators who arent onboard with them. I dont mean simply funding a competitor, I mean incubating a candidate and wholesale ground operations. There are other things I have credibly heard but am unwilling to repeat as to ways they put pressure on legislators and candidates. To be frank, they operate more like the Mossad.

Pharma does a lot of lobbying but their biggest impact is through control of the media because of their advertising spend. Groups like the Chamber exert big influence in DC but dont have much of a footprint really in the districts or states. The really scary ones to Congress are those who have sizeable DC presence but also have strong state chapters with deep local ties, like AARP.

I say all this as someone currently working for a prominent lobbying firm in the NE who has a variety of large clients.

Would you mind expounding on, "...and most threatening in the way they do it..."?

 

[volgr]

You’re just refusing to read/acknowledge anything that doesn’t suit you at this point.

I’ve given multiple criticisms of AIPAC.

AIPAC spends outsized money in local elections.
AIPAC should have to be registered under FARA.
AIPAC is an arm of the Israeli State.

None of that ^ is antisemitic.

When you resort to “AIPAC [Jews] own Congress” - you’re trafficking in tropes.

The Israeli "lobby" comes in many forms. AIPAC is only a small part of that. I dont see how anyone could deny that Israel has a very strong influence in DC. Because anti-Jewish groups use that true information in conjunction with other false narratives doesnt make that statement untrue or anti-semitic.

We, as a Nation, cant appropriately deal with problems if we arent allowed to talk about certain nuanced subjects without being called racists or anti-semitic. Israel's influence on US foreign policy is a big problem.

 

[ButchPlz]

The Israeli "lobby" comes in many forms. AIPAC is only a small part of that. I dont see how anyone could deny that Israel has a very strong influence in DC. Because anti-Jewish groups use that true information in conjunction with other false narratives doesnt make that statement untrue or anti-semitic.

We, as a Nation, cant appropriately deal with problems if we arent allowed to talk about certain nuanced subjects without being called racists or anti-semitic. Israel's influence on US foreign policy is a big problem.

Like has been said in this thread, "anti-semitic" is the Evangelical right's version of screeching "racism" at everything. We're in gridlock and teetering on obliteration in this country because we have fools worshipping other fools and anybody that's not on board gets labeled with another increasingly meaningless word.

 

[McDad]

The Israeli "lobby" comes in many forms. AIPAC is only a small part of that. I dont see how anyone could deny that Israel has a very strong influence in DC. Because anti-Jewish groups use that true information in conjunction with other false narratives doesnt make that statement untrue or anti-semitic.

We, as a Nation, cant appropriately deal with problems if we arent allowed to talk about certain nuanced subjects without being called racists or anti-semitic. Israel's influence on US foreign policy is a big problem.

I can't speak for others but I am interested in quantifying the strength of Pro Israel lobbies. You have any credible resources?

 

[85SugarVol]

Like has been said in this thread, "anti-semitic" is the Evangelical right's version of screeching "racism" at everything. We're in gridlock and teetering on obliteration in this country because we have fools worshipping other fools and anybody that's not on board gets labeled with another increasingly meaningless word.

Let’s start with trying to determine a baseline (if you have one) here.

Do you believe general statements to the effect of -

Jews control/own/dictate the banks/ governments/ institutions , etc…

Is problematic in any way?

 

[volgr]

I can't speak for others but I am interested in quantifying the strength of Pro Israel lobbies. You have any credible resources?

I dont do "credible source" link-a-thons. There is plenty of pro and con media on this topic. If you are genuinely curious, the info is out there. If you disagree with me, then we can agree to disagree.

 

[ButchPlz]

Let’s start with trying to determine a baseline (if you have one) here.

Do you believe general statements to the effect of -

Jews control/own/dictate the banks/ governments/ institutions , etc…

Is problematic in any way?

Why would I? I don't define anything as "problematic" because all ideas should be shared and addressed in public. That's the point of this "free speech" thing we are supposed to have in this country, which apparently (as evidenced in this thread several times) you aren't cool with. Another fool worshipping fools.

Constantly screeching like a woman in menopause about "problematic" words is the definition of pathetic. Jews aren't magically exempt from scrutiny and criticism just for being Jewish, same as black people, Asians, white people, etc. Anyone questioning why the US spends billions on Israel isn't automatically "anti-semitic", Anyone questioning their lobby groups and campaign donations isn't "anti-semitic". Anyone wanting Americans to stop funding endless violence in the ME isn't "anti-semitic" or "anti-Islam".

Remove brain, replace with media catchphrases. That's the standard model today.

 

[volgr]

Let’s start with trying to determine a baseline (if you have one) here.

Do you believe general statements to the effect of -

Jews control/own/dictate the banks/ governments/ institutions , etc…

Is problematic in any way?

Are "jews" a monolith? Is it problematic for you to assume they are?