Israel vs Palestinians

#26,301
#26,301
ButchPlz said:
The main examples I can think of right now are the handful of dems that lost in primaries to AIPAC-backed candidates. There was a Republican from (I think) Montana that said something about AIPAC involvement and got primaried. Thomas Massie mentioned AIPAC support across Congress and they're now running ads against him, and then AIPAC stopped campaign donations for Republicans that did not vote in favor of some of the recent emergency "aid" bills for Israel.

None of this to me is beyond standard lobbying activity (don't fund candidates that don't vote how you want, which I don't like in any case) but where I personally take issue is the fact that this looks to be one of the only operations that is heavily mixing foreign involvement and aid and this type of lobbying. I'm very much about putting Americans first, and orgs like AIPAC and other Israel single-issue groups (and, I suppose, Palestinian ones too) encourage Congress to put foreign interests first.
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I agree the "burying" in your examples are less unique and nefarious. Seems much more SOP for any lobbying group.

As I searched yesterday, I found several foreign interests (countries) which are actively lobbying our government. In that way, Israel...or Israel via proxy American citizens...isn't unique. They might be more active, better funded, and more effective but they aren't novel.
 
#26,302
#26,302
85SugarVol said:
Oh are you under the impression that I asked you a question? You may go now.
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No, but I did ask YOU a question and you have declined to answer. Why would I go, I am curious how you will work yourself out of this contortion in logic.
 
#26,303
#26,303
85SugarVol said:
So you really are this stupid then.

There is (rightfully) no law against hateful, bigoted speech. And I would overwhelmingly push back and battle against any that would seek to make it so.

You can be as racist, anti-Semitic, bigoted, as you want to be. Obviously.

Doesn’t mean others won’t call you out for being a sh!tbag.

And lmao we can add Internet Tough Guy to your list of titles - talking about sending/taking bullets on a message board…
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I referenced Freak's guidelines yesterday. Your post is in violation.

Please consider joining in a group effort to make VN better. ✌️
 
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#26,304
#26,304
McDad said:
I agree the "burying" in your examples are less unique and nefarious. Seems much more SOP for any lobbying group.

As I searched yesterday, I found several foreign interests (countries) which are actively lobbying our government. In that way, Israel...or Israel via proxy American citizens...isn't unique. They might be more active, better funded, and more effective but they aren't novel.
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I agree and I have issue with all of them. I take major, major issue with Chinese involvement in our government, because I've seen firsthand through work what they do to the countries that actually get in bed with them.

Personally I get a little incensed because it looks to me like they have a lot of influence on the church. This also is nothing new (see: basically the entire book of Acts and several sections in Paul's letters). I guess I've softened as I've gotten older. Seeing pastors standing in the pulpit calling for annihilation of a people really hits me the wrong way these days.
 
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#26,305
#26,305
ButchPlz said:
Who said they'd be willing to defend people saying what they want? I'm not willing to take a bullet for many folks, nor did I claim to be some big old "defender" of whatever.

I'm telling you to stop kidding yourself. You think you're good with freedom and free speech and the pros and cons of freedom, but you're really not. Have a little self-reflection time away from the internet, and then come back with your actual opinion. Just be honest big dog.
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Lol this is what you said -

ButchPlz said:
and I guarantee you wouldn't stand up and take (or send) a bullet for someone that wants to say something
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very Internet Tough Guy.

I see you are, unsurprisingly, confused by Freedom of Speech vs Freedom of Consequence.

You can be a sh!tbag, bigoted racist. You need not fear reprisal from the State.

I, and others, can call you out for being a racist, bigoted sh!tbag.
 
#26,306
#26,306
McDad said:
Thanks. I am wary about some of what you've posted but at least you are engaging in a conversation. That is very helpful for me.

Considering your proximity to the lobbying groups and knowledge of tactics, are you aware of any political office holder who did not tow the line with AIPAC and was buried as a result?
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Wont mention specific races but I have watched at least 2 black incumbents for safe dem seats get taken out in primaries by astroturfed candidates who sprung up seemingly overnight once they said something disparaging about a certain ethnic group or ties to Israel. It makes sense for them to do this btw as the primaries in safe one party seats are the best money spend. Fewest people have to be convinced to win the seat.

Also - IIRC Charlie Rangel is one who fell of the reservation and began to have issues that led to his retirement.
 
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#26,307
#26,307
85SugarVol said:
Lol this is what you said -


very Internet Tough Guy.

I see you are, unsurprisingly, confused by Freedom of Speech vs Freedom of Consequence.

You can be a sh!tbag, bigoted racist. You need not fear reprisal from the State.

I, and others, can call you out for being a racist, bigoted sh!tbag.
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Finally. Do you feel good now? Have you successfully defended all of the poor, innocent people of the world from the mean man on the internet? I'm a big old problematic threat, you know.
 
#26,309
#26,309
McDad said:
I referenced Freak's guidelines yesterday. Your post is in violation.

Please consider joining in a group effort to make VN better. ✌️
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He’s free to be as openly racist as he wants to be on here.

I’m free to call him out for being openly racist on here.
 
#26,311
#26,311
ButchPlz said:
Finally. Do you feel good now? Have you successfully defended all of the poor, innocent people of the world from the mean man on the internet? I'm a big old problematic threat, you know.
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Finally? I’ve been calling you out for that the entire time. You really are dense.
 
#26,313
#26,313
Gandalf said:
Wont mention specific races but I have watched at least 2 black incumbents for safe dem seats get taken out in primaries by astroturfed candidates who sprung up seemingly overnight once they said something disparaging about a certain ethnic group or ties to Israel. It makes sense for them to do this btw as the primaries in safe one party seats are the best money spend. Fewest people have to be convinced to win the seat.
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what is an astroturfed candidate?
 
#26,323
#26,323
85SugarVol said:
I wasn’t dragging you in that exchange. That was others.
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That's funny, I certainly don't feel "dragged" because someone posted the exact list I referenced for me, saved me a little time.

Come on big man, say your mean words again, I know it makes you feel better. I'm certainly feeling your "consequences"!
 
#26,324
#26,324
Finger is pointed at the wrong people..Who can blame anyone for trying to gain influence, yet omit the party that accepts the “bribe”?
 
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#26,325
#26,325
Orangeburst said:
Finger is pointed at the wrong people..Who can blame anyone for trying to gain influence, yet omit the party that accepts the “bribe”?
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I got at this in one of my last posts to McDad. I know the church is to blame for a lot of this stuff.
 
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