Israel vs Palestinians

[85SugarVol]

To be clear, it's not counting the last year in which we're talking tens of thousands of dead civilians. But let's be honest, there is no number that is going to bother you.

Be honest, was there a number of Israelis slaughtered on 10/7 that would have moved you past IDGAF? Nah…

 

[bamawriter]

Nash's point is that the numbers claimed by the IDF in your AP are not "active combatants" it's "militant" Palestinians, which could just mean they are schoolboys who support the idea of fighting their oppressors. It's not the same thing, and the distinction matters, even if you consider it quibbling.

IDK, maybe they mean active combatants and do not understand what militant means, but knowing the IDF, one way or another, the 17k is a ******** number.

Hamas could go a long way toward clearing up the numbers by actually designating their soldiers.

 

[norrislakevol]

Be honest, was there a number of Israelis slaughtered on 10/7 that would have moved you past IDGAF? Nah…

Truth.

 

[norrislakevol]

Hamas could go a long way toward clearing up the numbers by actually designating their soldiers.

This will fall on deaf ears, and you will only get a deflection, if any response at all.

 

[bamawriter]

This will fall on deaf ears, and you will only get a deflection, if any response at all.

I know. The deflection amuses me.

 

[Ritzwatch]

Nash's point is that the numbers claimed by the IDF in your AP are not "active combatants" it's "militant" Palestinians, which could just mean they are schoolboys who support the idea of fighting their oppressors. It's not the same thing, and the distinction matters, even if you consider it quibbling.

IDK, maybe they mean active combatants and do not understand what militant means, but knowing the IDF, one way or another, the 17k is a ******** number.

I am pretty sure the IDF knows what “militant” means, though, based on my time in the ME, I am also sure it at means something different to them than to me. The English language is fun like that.

I’ve never had a school kid strap a bomb on and try to blow me up, but I have friends who have had that happen. Those friends don’t regret what they did to survive, and to help their fellow troops survive, but they can’t forget what they had to do either.

War is Hell.

 

[Orangeslice13]

This will fall on deaf ears, and you will only get a deflection, if any response at all.

One of them has posted that Israel should be more concerned about the people of Gaza than the elected leaders of the people of Gaza and should not shoot at the Hamas combatants hiding behind their own people.

That’s an insane level of stupidity for a combat situation.

 

[EasternVol]

What? Think about the absurdity of your post.

Americans were in the Palestinian position from 1775-1783. The difference is our leaders didn't flee to safety while their people were fighting, they invested their own treasure into defeating the bull instead of robbing their people, they used what foreign aid that was sent to help their people instead of stuffing it in their pockets. Also instead of hiding behind their women and children they faced the biggest bull on earth on the battlefield.

Americans weren't in the Palestinian position. We and the British were in the Israeli position and the Cherokee et al were in the Palestinian position. The American Revolution would be like a civil war between Zionist factions in Israel.

 

[EasternVol]

That only 2400 minors were killed (and given that Palestinian figures don't distinguish combatants, thus a 17 year old with an AK counts the same as an infant in his mother's arms) over the course of 24 years, most of which have been spent during open hostilities, is actually quite amazing.

The past 24 years hasn't been mostly open hostilities. The events since October last year add a great big amount to that 2400.

 

[EasternVol]

“Militants” target enemy soldiers. They don’t paraglide into a music festival and butcher civilian teenagers. That makes them “terrorists”

How about bombing wedding parties?
Or bombing cars carrying aid workers and then bombing the first responders?

 

[EasternVol]

I am pretty sure the IDF knows what “militant” means, though, based on my time in the ME, I am also sure it at means something different to them than to me. The English language is fun like that.

I’ve never had a school kid strap a bomb on and try to blow me up, but I have friends who have had that happen. Those friends don’t regret what they did to survive, and to help their fellow troops survive, but they can’t forget what they had to do either.

War is Hell.

Where was that?

 

[Orangeslice13]

How about bombing wedding parties?
Or bombing cars carrying aid workers and then bombing the first responders?

Yes, Hamas has done all that and more.

 

[NashVol11]

Nash and Huff fail badly to tug at my heartstrings. Sorry y'all.

I don’t care about your heartstrings, you can be a **** person if you want

 

[NashVol11]

I just enjoy the fact that it went from “show your work, that number seems too high to be real”:

Israel killed over 2,000 Palestinian kids under 17 from 2000 to January 2022, making up a human shield narrative for every civilian Israel kills is stupid and exhausting

Show your work for this stat.

To then finding out it is real and immediately pivoting to “wow amazingly low”

Per your link there has been 2387 minors killed by IDF forces between Sept 2000 and April 2024. So they average (if the stats are correct) about 100 minors killed per year, in the US the police have averaged killing about 25 per year. It's pretty amazing it's so low over there considering how many times over the last 24 years it has been an active war zone.

That only 2400 minors were killed (and given that Palestinian figures don't distinguish combatants, thus a 17 year old with an AK counts the same as an infant in his mother's arms) over the course of 24 years, most of which have been spent during open hostilities, is actually quite amazing.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I just enjoy the fact that it went from “show your work, that number seems too high to be real”:


To then finding out it is real and immediately pivoting to “wow amazingly low”

All that is red herring. The real issue is people here trying to view the situation there as if it were here.

Both sides have clearly stated they can’t coexist. There have been 3 compromises that did not result in a Palestinian state.
They say it’s too the death and I believe them.

The debate over numbers and deaths is irrelevant as well. On 10/07 one side attacked the other by surprise. They killed a little over 1000 women and children. The only reason that number wasn’t 100k is the ability to do damage. If the Palestinians had the ability to kill more they would have. Israel has responded. They’ve killed 40something k. The only reason that number isn’t 100k or 1 mil is restraint.

Make no mistake about this. When it’s over there will only be one country that controls that space


Edit: my position is still that it’s not our responsibility to pay for any of this. Not the fighting. Not the rebuilding. Nothing.

 

[norrislakevol]

I don’t care about your heartstrings, you can be a **** person if you want

Thanks!

 

[bamawriter]

I just enjoy the fact that it went from “show your work, that number seems too high to be real”:


To then finding out it is real and immediately pivoting to “wow amazingly low”

Your lack of self-awareness is almost impressive.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Your lack of self-awareness is almost impressive.

I disagree with this.
@NashVol11 likes to argue. He enjoys the debate and not necessarily the discussion. I think he’s very much like @evillawyer in that he will sometimes say things he doesn’t necessarily believe because he’s having fun trying to score points.


Edit: I’m saying that knowing that I will sometimes do that as well

 

[bamawriter]

I disagree with this.
@NashVol11 likes to argue. He enjoys the debate and not necessarily the discussion. I think he’s very much like @evillawyer in that he will sometimes say things he doesn’t necessarily believe because he’s having fun trying to score points.


Edit: I’m saying that knowing that I will sometimes do that as well

If you say so.

 

[Orangeslice13]

If you say so.

I’m pretty confident about this.
You see, I’m an azzwhole It helps me to spot others that have a similar mindset.

Heck, you should remember that about me. It’s been a decade but you were, at one time, among my favorite people to spar with.

 

[OrangeTsar]

How about bombing wedding parties?
Or bombing cars carrying aid workers and then bombing the first responders?

Civilians died in every war. Period. Full stop.

If Gaza didn’t want civilians killed; they shouldn’t have started a war.

Israel takes every responsible precaution to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas on the other hand, deliberately attacks music festivals and kills teenagers. Then cynically hides behind their own civilians in a reprehensible plan to increase their own civilian deaths to garner international sympathy.

Hamas started this war. They don’t get to complain when it doesn’t go the way they want.

 

[whodeycin85]

Yes we locked horns but the leadership and populace situation was night and day different. If what you say is true and the average Palestinian in Gaza is an innocent non-combatant it wouldn't be the people "locking horns" with the bull it would just be active Hamas members and the people wouldn't be sheltering, aiding and supporting them.

The Sheltering and aiding of Hamas is the part these people ignore...

 

[NashVol11]

Civilians died in every war. Period. Full stop.

If Gaza didn’t want civilians killed; they shouldn’t have started a war.

Israel takes every responsible precaution to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas on the other hand, deliberately attacks music festivals and kills teenagers. Then cynically hides behind their own civilians in a reprehensible plan to increase their own civilian deaths to garner international sympathy.

Hamas started this war. They don’t get to complain when it doesn’t go the way they want.

This is one of the instances he’s referring to, how exactly did Israel “take every responsible precaution” by giving the go-ahead for an ambulance to pick up a 6-year-old, then blowing it up and killing her, then lying and pretending they weren’t there

Rajab and her family were fleeing Gaza Citywhen their vehicle was shelled, killing her uncle, aunt and three cousins, except for Rajab and another cousin who contacted the Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS) to ask for help while noting that they were being attacked by an Israeli tank. The cousin was later also killed and Rajab was left stranded in the vehicle for hours on the phone, as paramedics from PRCS attempted to rescue her. Both Rajab and the paramedics were later also found killed on 10 February after an Israeli withdrawal.

Israel claimed that there weren't any troops present in the neighborhood and denied carrying out the attack. However, this was refuted by investigations relying on satellite imagery and visual evidence, which concluded that a number of Israeli tanks were indeed present and one had likely fired 335 rounds on the car that Rajab and her family had been in, with tank operators being able to see that the car had civilians including children in it.[5] The Forensic Architecture investigation also concluded that an Israeli tank had also likely attacked the ambulance that came for Rajab.

Killing of Hind Rajab - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[OrangeTsar]

This is one of the instances he’s referring to, how exactly did Israel “take every responsible precaution” by giving the go-ahead for an ambulance to pick up a 6-year-old, then blowing it up and killing her, then lying and pretending they weren’t there

Killing of Hind Rajab - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Mistakes happen in war. Remember this? Would you also claim that the US is wantonly killing civilians?

Loading…

www.cnn.com

 

[Vol8188]

This is one of the instances he’s referring to, how exactly did Israel “take every responsible precaution” by giving the go-ahead for an ambulance to pick up a 6-year-old, then blowing it up and killing her, then lying and pretending they weren’t there

Killing of Hind Rajab - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You can name 0 “responsible precautions” taken by Hamas.

Even you can name numerous taken by the IDF.

You want so bad for their to be a moral equivalency here, but it doesn’t exist.

Horrific things will occur in any conflict. You can’t name anyone ever tried by Hamas for their crimes against Israelis. Yet IDF members have been tried by Israel.

Your moral equivalency doesn’t exist. No military is perfect. But the IDF is a billion times superior to Hamas.

If your point were simply “the IDF can and should try to do better”, there’d be plenty of times we actually agreed. But that’s not your point.

Your point is that the IDF is just as bad if not worse and that the IDF is the problem. It’s insanity at its finest.

Hamas steals food from Palestinians. Israel brings them food. Hamas prevents civilians from leaving cities that are being attacked. Israel aids those civilians. If you cared about Palestinians, you’d support the IDF.