Israel vs Palestinians

[Vol8188]

It's a shame about your reading comprehension. I saw and read what I saw and read. It you're too lazy to look it up then that's on you.

Idk what I’m looking for. Are you referencing court documents? Which “witnesses”?

It’s not a matter of lazy, but rather a matter of not knowing what you’re referring to.

This is your style. Be vague. Then blame everyone else for not knowing what you mean. Finally, claim intellectual victory.

 

[hog88]

essentially yes. Hamas clearly started this and thus lost the right to protest retaliation, but I believe the Israelis are taking their response beyond the instigating events to advance their own self interests beyond the safety factor of the initiating events.

like wanting to steal someone's *insert thing here*, so you create a situation that allows you to steal it. could be you start a verbal altercation trusting to them escalating with a physical response. then once they punch you in the nose, you pull out your gun and shoot them dead and take the thing you wanted. can't say its wrong to defend oneself but clearly by this point the self defense is self serving beyond a matter of protection and starts to look premeditated and not just a true action/reaction chain of events.

Wow. Talk about a lutherism.

 

[LouderVol]

Maybe he could have taken out some IDF soldiers before he bought the farm? But without any doubt in my mind him setting himself on fire did nothing for his "cause".

he has sparked an eff ton of conversation about the matter. as I pointed out, he alone has generated far more conversation than ALL the other protests combined. that's essentially all you can expect from a protest.

 

[EasternVol]

Idk what I’m looking for. Are you referencing court documents? Which “witnesses”?

It’s not a matter of lazy, but rather a matter of not knowing what you’re referring to.

This is your style. Be vague. Then blame everyone else for not knowing what you mean. Finally, claim intellectual victory.

If you don't know what you're looking for then you're hopeless and there's no point to continue this conversation.

 

[hog88]

he has sparked an eff ton of conversation about the matter. as I pointed out, he alone has generated far more conversation than ALL the other protests combined. that's essentially all you can expect from a protest.

Yes, he has gotten the likeminded dolts talking.

 

[85SugarVol]

sure it is.

you hijack a car, not knowing the arsehole parent left a kid in the back seat.

you take shelter in a building and there happens to be a child in there you don't let go wonder out into a an active war zone.

you take a kid thinking you are just moving them to safety not knowing your superiors want to use them as human shields after you leave.

its war, there is probably not ever a truly single case of morality one way or the other. war creates impossible situations where people have to do completely terrible things to survive they otherwise wouldn't have done. either generally or in specific cases.

And none of those is what happened on 10/7

You don’t unintentionally follow a map to the Elementary school.
You don’t unintentionally steal babies from their mother’s arms.
You don’t unintentionally drive them back to Gaza and stash them underground.

 

[EasternVol]

And none of those is what happened on 10/7

You don’t unintentionally follow a map to the Elementary school.
You don’t unintentionally steal babies from their mother’s arms.
You don’t unintentionally drive them back to Gaza and stash them underground.

You don't unintentionally continuously level buildings known to be occupied.

 

[85SugarVol]

Now how do you know what other people think?

Lol, and how do you know Israeli intentions on a beach?

Everything summarized in that post has been pushed in this thread.

 

[85SugarVol]

You don't unintentionally continuously level buildings known to be occupied.

Perhaps. But that’s not what we’re discussing here.

We’re discussing stealing babies.

 

[n_huffhines]

Are you able to explain why the historian says it was a sham deal for Palestinians?

I'll find it. I can't remember. I appreciate him because he begrudgingly conceded a lot.

 

[EasternVol]

Lol, and how do you know Israeli intentions on a beach?

Everything summarized in that post has been pushed in this thread.

Read what I wrote above.

 

[EasternVol]

Perhaps. But that’s not what we’re discussing here.

We’re discussing stealing babies.

Oh, terribly sorry. I thought it was a general atrocity discussion.

 

[LouderVol]

No sir, you misunderstand why it is unimportant to me.

People believe in their ability to live with bears, bicycle through islamist extermists territory, fly their home made rocket to prove a flat earth. Are you able to generate empathy for them?

the only one of those specific examples I would potentially see empathy with would be the cyclists. they are actively trying to make the world a better place, or at least show that it is. that is something I can be empathetic with.

 

[Vol8188]

Read what I wrote above.

Some witness, somewhere, who you have no intent of naming, nor telling us how to find that witnesses claim.

But that witness for sure, knew the attack was intentional.

 

[jp1]

he has sparked an eff ton of conversation about the matter. as I pointed out, he alone has generated far more conversation than ALL the other protests combined. that's essentially all you can expect from a protest.

But the flip side of that is, who will be conversing about him next week? That's the sad part to me. We can agree/disagree about his cause, but I just see his form as bad. Not saying I'm right, just my take.

 

[EasternVol]

Some witness, somewhere, who you have no intent of naming, nor telling us how to find that witnesses claim.

But that witness for sure, knew the attack was intentional.

It was 10 years ago and I don't remember the names given. Odd, eh? Maybe one of them was Eddie and another was Earl. If you want to read up on it then do so.

 

[Vol8188]

It was 10 years ago and I don't remember the names given. Odd, eh? Maybe one of them was Eddie and another was Earl. If you want to read up on it then do so.

And you have no intent on taking 30 seconds to search for it on Google? You know what you’re looking for. I don’t.

Seems odd that this always happens when talking to you.

 

[n_huffhines]

I'll find it. I can't remember. I appreciate him because he begrudgingly conceded a lot.

@McDad I think I conflated two things. I believe he was saying the deal in the 60's was a sham. I conflated it with problems surrounding this deal.

With regard to the Oslo Accords, he talked about how the PLO lost power to maintain the treaty after the peace negotiation because it wasn't popular with many Palestinians, but we also know Netanyahu has been supporting the rise of Hamas to undermine the PLO/PA.

If you're interested in hearing about that, go to 54:38

Two Israel-Palestine Historians Explain: How Did We Get Here? And What Happens Next?

Two historians share their thoughts on Israel’s military response, the future of the Israel-Hamas conflict, and the "missing moderate middle" on both sides

www.theringer.com

And that's probably the most informative episode, if you want to just do 1.

 

[McDad]

essentially yes. Hamas clearly started this and thus lost the right to protest retaliation, but I believe the Israelis are taking their response beyond the instigating events to advance their own self interests beyond the safety factor of the initiating events.

like wanting to steal someone's *insert thing here*, so you create a situation that allows you to steal it. could be you start a verbal altercation trusting to them escalating with a physical response. then once they punch you in the nose, you pull out your gun and shoot them dead and take the thing you wanted. can't say its wrong to defend oneself but clearly by this point the self defense is self serving beyond a matter of protection and starts to look premeditated and not just a true action/reaction chain of events.

This greatly helps me understand how you see things.

Fair to summarize by saying: neither IDF and Hamas are blameless but the IDF baits Hamas into situations where IDF can respond aggressively with a preplanned motive to accomplish what they WANT rather than just defend or provide proper consequences for Hamas' actions?

 

[EasternVol]

And you have no intent on taking 30 seconds to search for it on Google? You know what you’re looking for. I don’t.

Seems odd that this always happens when talking to you.

So you're not smart enough to do a search for something you know all the keywords for. Got it.

 

[McDad]

glad someone finally picked up on that joke.

I missed it. too subtle for my cro magnon brain.

 

[85SugarVol]

Read what I wrote above.

It was rhetorical

 

[85SugarVol]

Some witness, somewhere, who you have no intent of naming, nor telling us how to find that witnesses claim.

But that witness for sure, knew the attack was intentional.

Maybe it was through casual conversations.

 

[Orangeslice13]

glad someone finally picked up on that joke.

To be fair, we actually know each other irl so I have a background to go from. You’re not the type to frame your language in an insulting manner so it had to be humor. And it did make me smile.

 

[EasternVol]

Maybe it was through casual conversations.

Alas, no. It was per news reports. But don't worry, one day you can go out into the world and meet people and discuss current events with them, and then you'll know that such discussions are possible and also informative.