Israel vs Palestinians

#18,177
#18,177
EasternVol said:
Alas, no. It was per news reports. But don't worry, one day you can go out into the world and meet people and discuss current events with them, and then you'll know that such discussions are possible and also informative.
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How could a witness on the ground know the intent?
 
#18,179
#18,179
McDad said:
This greatly helps me understand how you see things.

Fair to summarize by saying: neither IDF and Hamas are blameless but the IDF baits Hamas into situations where IDF can respond aggressively with a preplanned motive to accomplish what they WANT rather than just defend or provide proper consequences for Hamas' actions?
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“Proper consequences “ is the same BS as “measured response “. Nope, when you attack you should be ready to receive a response that is the full might of your enemy. If you didn’t expect it and you choose to hide behind innocent civilians then their deaths are yours as well.
 
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#18,181
#18,181
EasternVol said:
Alas, no. It was per news reports. But don't worry, one day you can go out into the world and meet people and discuss current events with them, and then you'll know that such discussions are possible and also informative.
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So since we are believe all witnesses, then I can assume you believe the 40k witness affidavits to voters fraud in GA, or is that different..
 
#18,182
#18,182
EasternVol said:
why don't you try to find out?
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It’s your claim. lol this is the same song and dance every time. You make absurd claims and expect everyone else to back them up for you.

How could a witness know the intent? You claim to know this was intentional because of the witness. Why can’t you answer that question?
 
#18,184
#18,184
Vol8188 said:
It’s your claim. lol this is the same song and dance every time. You make absurd claims and expect everyone else to back them up for you.

How could a witness know the intent? You claim to know this was intentional because of the witness. Why can’t you answer that question?
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So disprove it.
 
#18,185
#18,185
n_huffhines said:
The podcast goes back 150 years, but yeah, it covers that. As I recall, the pro-Israeli historian admits this was a sham deal for Palestine and it was never going to keep the peace.

It's easy to knock out podcasts when you carry around a little earbud. Anytime I'm doing anything, like yard work, the dishes, a walk, the gym, in the grocery store, etc. I just tap the bud and my pod picks up where it left off. I can consume like 20 hours of podcasts in a week and it took no time off my schedule. Highly recommend it (but I'm probably over-doing it).
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McDad is not into podcasts I don't think. He is more of a Walter Cronkite or Huntley-Brinkley type guy I believe.
 
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#18,187
#18,187
Vol8188 said:
Disprove that a random person who you can’t name, believes it to be intentional, based on what they saw, but you also can’t tell me what they saw.

Lmfao….this is why you’re a joke
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Coming from you, well thank you very much!
 
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#18,188
#18,188
EasternVol said:
Do you see the IDF and Hamas as essentially the same in practice just different in ideology?
Speaking of the military wing of hamas, since hamas's a political organization and not all members are armed: One's a very well armed and supplied state army and the other's a less well armed guerilla organization. One operates in the open and the other is underground. So different in practice.
Are (Gaza, WB, Gollun Heights) Palestinians different than Palestinians who live and work peacefully in Israel?
The Golan Heights are occupied Syrian territory so it's not quite the same as the occupied Palestinian territory. Otherwise, different how?
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Thanks for the reply.

When both sides respond / retaliate to aggression from the other, do you think the bulk of the responsibility for measured responses lies with the IDF because they are so well armed?
 
#18,190
#18,190
McDad said:
This greatly helps me understand how you see things.

Fair to summarize by saying: neither IDF and Hamas are blameless but the IDF baits Hamas into situations where IDF can respond aggressively with a preplanned motive to accomplish what they WANT rather than just defend or provide proper consequences for Hamas' actions?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure "baits" is the right word, and I'm not sure anything is pre-planned. It doesn't have to be. IDF can just let things happen, and it falls into the best interest of the powers that be. All they have to do is keep defending Israel and maintaining the status quo and that's enough to "bait" Palestinians. A Palestinian kid throws rocks at an Israeli troop. Israeli troop kills kid. Palestinians have one more reason to hate Israel. This happened 30 times last year in the West Bank alone (meaning death of Palestinian children at the hands of Israeli soldiers). It's a tinder box. We think Hamas attacked for no reason out of nowhere. We don't actually know what's happening. Imagine how Americans would feel about 30 dead kids at the hands of who we see as occupiers.
 
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#18,192
#18,192
McDad said:
This greatly helps me understand how you see things.

Fair to summarize by saying: neither IDF and Hamas are blameless but the IDF baits Hamas into situations where IDF can respond aggressively with a preplanned motive to accomplish what they WANT rather than just defend or provide proper consequences for Hamas' actions?
Click to expand...
more or less. I guess I should have also thrown in there that this is a preexisting fight. so maybe they have both thrown fists, but one wants to really finish the job in the next bout and it goes from a bar fight to a somewhat justified homicide.
 
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#18,193
#18,193
LouderVol said:
more or less. I guess I should have also thrown in there that this is a preexisting fight. so maybe they have both thrown fists, but one wants to really finish the job in the next bout and it goes from a bar fight to a somewhat justified homicide.
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Are you denying that hamas “really wants to finish the job”?
 
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#18,194
#18,194
n_huffhines said:
@McDad I think I conflated two things. I believe he was saying the deal in the 60's was a sham. I conflated it with problems surrounding this deal.

With regard to the Oslo Accords, he talked about how the PLO lost power to maintain the treaty after the peace negotiation because it wasn't popular with many Palestinians, but we also know Netanyahu has been supporting the rise of Hamas to undermine the PLO/PA.

If you're interested in hearing about that, go to 54:38

www.theringer.com

Two Israel-Palestine Historians Explain: How Did We Get Here? And What Happens Next?

Two historians share their thoughts on Israel’s military response, the future of the Israel-Hamas conflict, and the "missing moderate middle" on both sides
www.theringer.com www.theringer.com

And that's probably the most informative episode, if you want to just do
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I will listen to this one. I am genuinely interested in the podcaster's opinion on what happened after the "Clinton Peace Deal".
 
#18,195
#18,195
McDad said:
I will listen to this one. I am genuinely interested in the podcaster's opinion on what happened after the "Clinton Peace Deal".
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I think maybe the Palestinian historian covers that part. Podcaster typically relies on guests to put the facts and ideas out there and he tries to sift thru the info
 
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#18,197
#18,197
Orangeslice13 said:
“Proper consequences “ is the same BS as “measured response “. Nope, when you attack you should be ready to receive a response that is the full might of your enemy. If you didn’t expect it and you choose to hide behind innocent civilians then their deaths are yours as well.
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This is my how I think as well. I don't agree with the concept of measured response. I am more of a neutralize the threat of today and give all a reason to reconsider a future attack.

But not everyone thinks that way.
 
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#18,200
#18,200
McDad said:
This is my how I think as well. I don't agree with the concept of measured response. I am more of a neutralize the threat of today and give all a reason to reconsider a future attack.

But not everyone thinks that way.
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Same here. I'm of the Machiavellian mindset

One has to mention that men should either be well treated or crushed because although they can avenge themselves of lighter injuries of more serious ones they cannot. Therefore the harm that is done to a man should be so serious that one does not stand in fear of revenge.
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