It doesn’t work… it never has…

#77
#77
CNCVol88 said:
OP you might want to check the talent gap between Tennessee and Georgia right now before you make yourself look like the idiot you surely are making yourself out to be.

Edit: also look at our injuries. We had walk ons at DB last night. We are starting 4th string Lbs. Our offensive line was mcguyvered together with paperclips and shoestrings.
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Depth is everything. We lost the starting X and Z in the 1st Quarter, and the backups came through.
 
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#78
#78
BruinVol said:
I respect that. The overall topic was a little over the top especially considering I want to keep CJH


I just don’t think the scheme can ever “work”
Good enough against the big boys to win the east and the numbers prove that to me
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Thank you I always try to respect others opinions and it is nice to have a cordial debate.
 
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#79
#79
BruinVol said:
CJH is supposed to be some offensive genius…. Well he isn’t and never has been..


Hear me out.

I’ve gone back and studied all of his 5 years coaching offense in the SEC(1 game shy) and the results are glaring. The man feast on bad teams, runs up stats and routinely gets embarrassed by the good defenses.

Here are the results when you look at his pts per game against OOC opponents(not counting bowls) vs his pts per games vs 9 win SEC teams…


CJH offenses average 44 pts a game against the lesser SEC teams and OOC opponents.



CJH offenses average 23 pts a game against 9 win SEC teams. (Keep in mind that incudes 52(bama), 45 (Kentucky) and 40(LsU) so without those 3 that’s awful.




So let’s face reality. No QB named Nico is going to make this offensive scheme better. Heck we played one good defense a year ago and were embarrassed with a a very good QB in hooker.

We have a coach that puts up big numbers against bad teams and gets his fat ass whipped against good ones. Always has and always will!
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So what you’re saying is: with equal or superior talent he wins. With significantly worse talent he loses. I’m shocked.
 
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#80
#80
Heupel took over a program that, frankly, I expected not to have a winning season for a couple yrs considering it had losing seasons 3 of the last 4 and was entering NCAA “hell” with a depleted roster.

I guess some saw better than 3 straight winning seasons, multiple wins over top 10 teams & a 25-11 record.

let’s get Haslam money & hire a new coach.
 
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#82
#82
loosecannon said:
So what you’re saying is: with equal or superior talent he wins. With significantly worse talent he loses. I’m shocked.
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Solid rebuttal BUT this brings up other topics. Just look at his time at OU where he got fired. He certainly was the big boy on the block there when it comes to talent. Just look at UCF where his talent was superior but his program declined. And you won’t convince me he hasn’t lost 3 games in the last two years to inferior teams in mizzu, florida and South Carolina.


So yea your post doesn’t hold water
 
#83
#83
Jaxon_Vol2017 said:
@Freak please just lock down the entire forum. The stupidity tonight is just mind boggling.
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But he STUDIED!!

Most of the folks making the most of the negative noise do the least to support the program. Rarely go to games, do not donate to the University, do not donate to a UT based collective, but will by a ball cap and a tshirt once per year.
 
#84
#84
BruinVol said:
CJH is supposed to be some offensive genius…. Well he isn’t and never has been..


Hear me out.

I’ve gone back and studied all of his 5 years coaching offense in the SEC(1 game shy) and the results are glaring. The man feast on bad teams, runs up stats and routinely gets embarrassed by the good defenses.

Here are the results when you look at his pts per game against OOC opponents(not counting bowls) vs his pts per games vs 9 win SEC teams…


CJH offenses average 44 pts a game against the lesser SEC teams and OOC opponents.



CJH offenses average 23 pts a game against 9 win SEC teams. (Keep in mind that incudes 52(bama), 45 (Kentucky) and 40(LsU) so without those 3 that’s awful.




So let’s face reality. No QB named Nico is going to make this offensive scheme better. Heck we played one good defense a year ago and were embarrassed with a a very good QB in hooker.

We have a coach that puts up big numbers against bad teams and gets his fat ass whipped against good ones. Always has and always will!
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I would guess that this is typical….. bad teams get taken to the woodshed while good teams with better athletes fare much better regardless of which OC and team you look at
 
#85
#85
BruinVol said:
I’d love to hear the rebuttal regarding the actual numbers.


The numbers are glaringly different…
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Just to give the binary thinking, reductive simpletons a little step stool to reach the higher shelves of reasoning— the argument presented goes like this: Our offense does not perform as well with top defensive teams. Thank you for that revelation. Let’s watch how Michigan, Washington or Ohio State’s numbers decline if they play in the CFP. How did TCU do against Georgia. How about Ole Miss vs Georgia this year. You have to be absolutely blinded from any rational thinking if you don’t understand that talent and depth drive this game. Look up a chart of four and five star signees on Bama and Georgia vs ours. Things got worse this year because of past recruiting misses, lesser talent, and the (many) losses from last year’s team. This offense requires matchup superiority somewhere. Where do we have matchup superiority anywhere on this team vs even the middle of the SEC? Punter? This offense is good at exploiting matchups and reading defenses to find holes. Our line, receivers and QB are all about a C+ this year. Teams stop the run and keep receivers in front. Does Heupel’s offense perform poorly with bad talent against much better defenses? Yes. Is that revelatory or different than other offenses with the same challenges? No. Take a nap. The adults are tired of the whining.
 
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#86
#86
BruinVol said:
Take the emotion out of it and just look at the numbers…



44 pts a game vs 23 when we play good teams



That’s way more than it should be. We
Led the country is scoring offense a year ago scoring 5 more pts than Georgia did per game…

No one is their right mind would come on here and say our offense was better than theirs.


JH offense doesn’t work against the good defenses and that’s proven over the course of 5 years
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Most offenses don't do as well against top defenses as they do weaker defenses. Such and odd thing....
 
#87
#87
Carl Pickens said:
I would guess that this is typical….. bad teams get taken to the woodshed while good teams with better athletes fare much better regardless of which OC and team you look at
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It’s fair to expect less production I agree but how much less ??

Imo anything close to half is a big red flag and that’s what we have
 
#88
#88
Stoerner Fumbles said:
Just to give the binary thinking, reductive simpletons a little step stool to reach the higher shelves of reasoning— the argument presented goes like this: Our offense does not perform as well with top defensive teams. Thank you for that revelation. Let’s watch how Michigan, Washington or Ohio State’s numbers decline if they play in the CFP. How did TCU do against Georgia. How about Ole Miss vs Georgia this year. You have to be absolutely blinded from any rational thinking if you don’t understand that talent and depth drive this game. Look up a chart of four and five star signees on Bama and Georgia vs ours. Things got worse this year because of past recruiting misses, lesser talent, and the (many) losses from last year’s team. This offense requires matchup superiority somewhere. Where do we have matchup superiority anywhere on this team vs even the middle of the SEC? Punter? This offense is good at exploiting matchups and reading defenses to find holes. Our line, receivers and QB are all about a C+ this year. Teams stop the run and keep receivers in front. Does Heupel’s offense perform poorly with bad talent against much better defenses? Yes. Is that revelatory or different than other offenses with the same challenges? No. Take a nap. The adults are tired of the whining.
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The issue is CJH won’t survive here if he can’t win the east.. this entire topic is based off my belief his scheme can never do that. It simply puts too much pressure on the defense
 
#89
#89
BruinVol said:
The facts are the man climbed the ladder running up scores…

79 against Delaware state in 2016 …

72 against Missouri State in 2017
68 against Idaho in 2017




All while getting his hind end whipped when he played the big boys…


Bama and LsU a year ago are his only two good games against good teams…



The scheme sucks against good defenses…
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Man, you need to look at who the receivers were yesterday….. and who was missing on the Oline.
If S. White is your #1 wr you’re in big trouble.
He’s a good player, but at 5’7” or whatever he’s just not a true #1 at the SEC level. Keyton isn’t either…. Then you’re down to freshmen against top tier competition…. With a very pedestrian QB.
 
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#90
#90
BruinVol said:
It’s fair to expect less production I agree but how much less ??

Imo anything close to half is a big red flag and that’s what we have
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They don’t have the dogs to compete with top tier teams this year. The FL loss was trash and the MO game as well…. But Bama and GA… not so much.
I’m more troubled by how soft they appear
 
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#91
#91
Carl Pickens said:
Man, you need to look at who the receivers were yesterday….. and who was missing on the Oline.
If S. White is your #1 wr you’re in big trouble.
He’s a good player, but at 5’7” or whatever he’s just not a true #1 at the SEC level. Keyton isn’t either…. Then you’re down to freshmen against top tier competition…. With a very pedestrian QB.
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No doubt our Wr are awful


They couldn’t Jump up to 7ft shelf and get a damn cookie over an 8yr old child …
 
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#94
#94
BruinVol said:
CJH is supposed to be some offensive genius…. Well he isn’t and never has been..


Hear me out.

I’ve gone back and studied all of his 5 years coaching offense in the SEC(1 game shy) and the results are glaring. The man feast on bad teams, runs up stats and routinely gets embarrassed by the good defenses.

Here are the results when you look at his pts per game against OOC opponents(not counting bowls) vs his pts per games vs 9 win SEC teams…


CJH offenses average 44 pts a game against the lesser SEC teams and OOC opponents.



CJH offenses average 23 pts a game against 9 win SEC teams. (Keep in mind that incudes 52(bama), 45 (Kentucky) and 40(LsU) so without those 3 that’s awful.




So let’s face reality. No QB named Nico is going to make this offensive scheme better. Heck we played one good defense a year ago and were embarrassed with a a very good QB in hooker.

We have a coach that puts up big numbers against bad teams and gets his fat ass whipped against good ones. Always has and always will!
Click to expand...
While I haven’t run the numbers (and I won’t as I have more important things to do like rearranging my sock drawer) I’ll bet there there are dozens of teams that see similar disparities in their scoring between weak vs strong opponents. Immediately teams like Ohio State, Oregon, Oklahoma and Michigan come to mind so I’m a bit puzzled how these disparities “prove” CJH is or isn’t a coaching genius. I think it’s just the nature of college football today, win big when you can and just try to survive when you can’t.
 
#96
#96
CAVPUT said:
Silly me. I didn't know he was such an accomplished head coach. Moves around a lot tho.
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Let’s recap. your point was the CFP Offense failed after cut left. That’s accurate. You then compared it to Hypel as if it were the same situation. It clearly isn’t as we have tons of Data on CJHs offense. now you want to make it about something else? Yes I agree, silly you
 
#97
#97
Just look at the 2021 coaching hires and Heupel has done a better job in a much tougher situation.

Shane Beamer is 19-17 and 9-14 in the conference.
Bryan Harsin was 9-12 and 4-9 in the conference. Fired after 2 seasons.
Josh Heupel is 25-12 and 13-10 in the conference. And minus a major meltdown will end the regular season being 26-12 and 14-10.

Would you rather have Beamer or Harsin?? Heupel has done a very good job with the situation he inherited the question is can he grow on that. I think we should see offense improve with Nico but to play in the SEC the defense has to improve.
 
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#98
#98
BruinVol said:
Ok ok then just look at the info as more of giving of facts.


It seems very concerning to me that CJH scores dang near half the pts when he plays good teams as when he plays the bad ones. That’s a 5 year trend that can’t be a good sign going forward


Taking the emotion away we all know it’s reasonable to score less points against good teams but IMO when those numbers are dang near half that’s just too large of a discrepancy to ignore
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Dude, you’re basically saying we don’t score as much against good defenses. Who does?
 
#99
#99
BruinVol said:
I respect that. The overall topic was a little over the top especially considering I want to keep CJH


I just don’t think the scheme can ever “work”
Good enough against the big boys to win the east and the numbers prove that to me
Click to expand...

Considering you ended your post with calling him a fat ass......yeah....
 
#100
#100
BruinVol said:
CJH is supposed to be some offensive genius…. Well he isn’t and never has been..


Hear me out.

I’ve gone back and studied all of his 5 years coaching offense in the SEC(1 game shy) and the results are glaring. The man feast on bad teams, runs up stats and routinely gets embarrassed by the good defenses.

Here are the results when you look at his pts per game against OOC opponents(not counting bowls) vs his pts per games vs 9 win SEC teams…


CJH offenses average 44 pts a game against the lesser SEC teams and OOC opponents.



CJH offenses average 23 pts a game against 9 win SEC teams. (Keep in mind that incudes 52(bama), 45 (Kentucky) and 40(LsU) so without those 3 that’s awful.




So let’s face reality. No QB named Nico is going to make this offensive scheme better. Heck we played one good defense a year ago and were embarrassed with a a very good QB in hooker.

We have a coach that puts up big numbers against bad teams and gets his fat ass whipped against good ones. Always has and always will!
Click to expand...
Get rid of OVERTHROW JOE!
 
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