It seems like Cuonzo's players always

#77
#77
Unimane said:
Yes, because the visual evidence is readily apparent to anyone who bothers to look. People, essentially, pull these arguments out of their rear end in order to satisfy the 1% possibility that Martin is the next Coach K when the reality is that it's 99% certain that he is exactly who he has been since he's been here.
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The guy has a winning record, 3-0 against one of the best coaches in the conference, and handed UK the worst beatdown of the series. Your 99% certainty is as ludicrous as those that really think he's going to be as great as K. Most, myself included, don't necessarily think he's going to be that great, but also don't show an agenda against him that makes it seem like he's as bad as Houston was as coach. The extremes go both ways, but you fail to acknowledge how ridiculous your end is.
 
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#78
#78
whobethis16 said:
The guy has a winning record, 3-0 against one of the best coaches in the conference, and handed UK the worst beatdown of the series. Your 99% certainty is as ludicrous as those that really think he's going to be as great as K. Most, myself included, don't necessarily think he's going to be that great, but also don't show an agenda against him that makes it seem like he's as bad as Houston was as coach. The extremes go both ways, but you fail to acknowledge how ridiculous your end is.
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My "agenda" is for UT to be a good basketball program. The use of the word "agenda" is as ridiculous as the convoluted arguments tying him to successful coaches like Coach K. No one has an "agenda" against Martin, nor cares about his personal success much beyond how it affects UT.

Good for him that he beat UF a few times and beat up on a terrible UK team in February. This is a March sport and he hasn't even made the big boy tournament yet, nor had any success in the SEC or NIT Tournaments, either.

Ultimately, to those who understand basketball, there are some pretty clear signs as to whether or not this is going to work out. Ask questions like; What kind of offense is he running? Does he incorporate spacing within his offense? Is he developing players? What is his defensive philosophy and it is working? What is his substitution pattern? Can he motivate? Etc., etc.

To me, all of those questions are a big negative and far more relevant than some fandom nonsense of "you just have an agenda".
 
#79
#79
Unimane said:
My "agenda" is for UT to be a good basketball program. The use of the word "agenda" is as ridiculous as the convoluted arguments tying him to successful coaches like Coach K. No one has an "agenda" against Martin, nor cares about his personal success much beyond how it affects UT.

Good for him that he beat UF a few times and beat up on a terrible UK team in February. This is a March sport and he hasn't even made the big boy tournament yet, nor had any success in the SEC or NIT Tournaments, either.

Ultimately, to those who understand basketball, there are some pretty clear signs as to whether or not this is going to work out. Ask questions like; What kind of offense is he running? Does he incorporate spacing within his offense? Is he developing players? What is his defensive philosophy and it is working? What is his substitution pattern? Can he motivate? Etc., etc.

To me, all of those questions are a big negative and far more relevant than some fandom nonsense of "you just have an agenda".
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Good post.
 
#80
#80
Unimane said:
My "agenda" is for UT to be a good basketball program. The use of the word "agenda" is as ridiculous as the convoluted arguments tying him to successful coaches like Coach K. No one has an "agenda" against Martin, nor cares about his personal success much beyond how it affects UT.

Good for him that he beat UF a few times and beat up on a terrible UK team in February. This is a March sport and he hasn't even made the big boy tournament yet, nor had any success in the SEC or NIT Tournaments, either.

Ultimately, to those who understand basketball, there are some pretty clear signs as to whether or not this is going to work out. Ask questions like; What kind of offense is he running? Does he incorporate spacing within his offense? Is he developing players? What is his defensive philosophy and it is working? What is his substitution pattern? Can he motivate? Etc., etc.

To me, all of those questions are a big negative and far more relevant than some fandom nonsense of "you just have an agenda".
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So beating the teams he has beaten was purely luck and had nothing to do with coaching? There were no positive signs in games against top 25 teams that said maybe he can coach us to beat a team like this consistently?
 
#81
#81
bleedingTNorange said:
So beating the teams he has beaten was purely luck and had nothing to do with coaching? There were no positive signs in games against top 25 teams that said maybe he can coach us to beat a team like this consistently?
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Of course. Don't you know that these players win those games in spite of Martin?
 
#84
#84
bleedingTNorange said:
So beating the teams he has beaten was purely luck and had nothing to do with coaching? There were no positive signs in games against top 25 teams that said maybe he can coach us to beat a team like this consistently?
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Wade Houston and Buzz Peterson won some "big" games also. Both Wade and Buzz had years with winning records in the SEC. Neither would be classified as good coaches.
 
#85
#85
bleedingTNorange said:
So beating the teams he has beaten was purely luck and had nothing to do with coaching? There were no positive signs in games against top 25 teams that said maybe he can coach us to beat a team like this consistently?
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When has he done anything consistently? When has he won anything of note? Can you honestly watch him coach and how his teams play and think he is on the path to making this team a legit contender every year? How can anyone watch his teams and think they are well coached?

However, if you want to cherry pick a couple of results to make him look better than he is, then the same can be done in the other direction. I mean, let's take a look at his post-season, for instance. Mercer? Georgia? Oakland? Austin Peay? Charleston? MTSU?
 
#87
#87
cpavol said:
Wade Houston and Buzz Peterson won some "big" games also. Both Wade and Buzz had years with winning records in the SEC. Neither would be classified as good coaches.
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Yep, and Jerry Green should have been given a 10 year extension by the logic that Martin has won a couple of games against Florida and, thus, should be given the benefit of the doubt. Green had a winning record and some NCAA victories, yet got fired and, shockingly, no one has hired him since (probably because people bothered to pay attention to his coaching and realized how terrible he was).
 
#88
#88
Unimane said:
When has he done anything consistently? When has he won anything of note? Can you honestly watch him coach and how his teams play and think he is on the path to making this team a legit contender every year? How can anyone watch his teams and think they are well coached?

However, if you want to cherry pick a couple of results to make him look better than he is, then the same can be done in the other direction. I mean, let's take a look at his post-season, for instance. Mercer? Georgia? Oakland? Austin Peay? Charleston? MTSU?
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I didn't say he's done anything consistently so way to screw that one up.

What I said was that he has beaten some very good teams, and quite a few actually. He out coached Greg Marshall last year who many feel is one of the better coaches in the country.

I am in no way, shape, or form claiming Martin has been great or some top notch coach. What I am saying is that his ability to beat many great coaches and very good teams in his first 2 years tells me he's not as inept as you try to portray.

Now whether he can figure out what it is that won those games for him and instill that into his teams on a consistent basis is the question I have. This year should answer that, that's all I'm saying.

If you think you don't think coaching his team to a 2nd place SEC finish when picked to finish 11th was a good job then I really don't know what to tell you.
 
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#89
#89
Unimane said:
When has he done anything consistently? When has he won anything of note? Can you honestly watch him coach and how his teams play and think he is on the path to making this team a legit contender every year? How can anyone watch his teams and think they are well coached?

However, if you want to cherry pick a couple of results to make him look better than he is, then the same can be done in the other direction. I mean, let's take a look at his post-season, for instance. Mercer? Georgia? Oakland? Austin Peay? Charleston? MTSU?
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And Pearl lost to Indianapolis, USC, Oakland, Charlotte, College of Charleston, Arkansas, Georgia, Miss State in his last year, many of those before the NCAA issues really took off. Come on, man.
 
#90
#90
bleedingTNorange said:
I didn't say he's done anything consistently so way to screw that one up.

What I said was that he has beaten some very good teams, and quite a few actually. He out coached Greg Marshall last year who many feel is one of the better coaches in the country.

I am in no way, shape, or form claiming Martin has been great or some top notch coach. What I am saying is that his ability to beat many great coaches and very good teams in his first 2 years tells me he's not as inept as you try to portray.

Now whether he can figure out what it is that won those games for him and instill that into his teams on a consistent basis is the question I have. This year should answer that, that's all I'm saying.

If you think you don't think coaching his team to a 2nd place SEC finish when picked to finish 11th was a good job then I really don't know what to tell you.
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I didn't screw anything up, you said he's shown something that would lead you to believe he could win consistently. In other words, you are living on hope, not reality. And, yeah, he finished tied for second in a watered down SEC that was impressive enough to get him a bid to the prestigious NIT, where he flamed out rather quickly.

You pin your hopes on a few outlier wins, while ignoring the greater body of work and, more importantly, the details which would allow for someone to think he is actually going to be successful. I see a coach with no discernable ability to formulate an effective offense (fortunately, he's had McRae to bail him out a number of times), effectively teach basic defensive elements like hedging on defense, develop players like Jarnell Stokes or create a sense of motivation and urgency in big game situations.

You answer none of those questions and, instead, hold on to a few random victories over the years. He's just not a good coach, face reality.
 
#91
#91
whobethis16 said:
And Pearl lost to Indianapolis, USC, Oakland, Charlotte, College of Charleston, Arkansas, Georgia, Miss State in his last year, many of those before the NCAA issues really took off. Come on, man.
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And, how was Pearl in the post-season? Plus, apparently, all you need to do is beat Florida a few times and you are good to go as a coach. Pearl beat some significantly better UF teams in that regard.
 
#93
#93
bleedingTNorange said:
So no way a coach as inept as the one you just described will ever make the big dance right?
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Oh, plenty of inept coaches make the tournament. Jerry Green did 4 times for example. However, they never do on a consistent basis and they rarely, ever do anything of note, if they make it.
 
#94
#94
Unimane said:
Oh, plenty of inept coaches make the tournament. Jerry Green did 4 times for example. However, they never do on a consistent basis and they rarely, ever do anything of note, if they make it.
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So Martin will never make it out if the first weekend you're suggesting?
 
#95
#95
bleedingTNorange said:
So Martin will never make it out if the first weekend you're suggesting?
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Green lucked into it once, so there's a possibility that Martin, if he manages to make the tournament, could do it once, but I doubt it. I'd give Martin a 10% chance of doing it once and about 1% chance of more than once.
 
#100
#100
Unimane said:
So, you're going to say that Martin is going to make it to the second weekend of a tournament he's never even qualified for and you give me the sarcastic remark?
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You inferred all that from my 2 letter response?

Just trying to get a gauge on your stance, that's all.
 
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