Its about to get real

#176
#176
GroverCleveland said:
I'm pointing out that after four years in office, the country pretty much as a whole decided he was incompetent. Those southern states he came close to winning in 1980 had significant shifts in their votes from 1976. Georgia had a 7% swing, probably that small only because he was from there. Those swings were not because he was a good President. Reagan won Georgia by almost 21% in 1984 and it was not because a bunch of Republicans moved into the state.
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I'm not disagreeing with you that Carter was a bad president. Honestly I blame it more on democrats being in charge during his presidency. Shows how inept they are when they are in control. Just like they are now.

Mondale still got 40% of the vote in 1984. More than likely from the loyal democrat party followers. Still a rather large percent of the vote overall.
 
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#177
#177
utvolpj said:
Because you present her as a valid political option when she's simply an actor repeating a script. Pretty sure we have enough not very smart people in office
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She's also not a career politician. She has also questioned and challenged Trump and would be a valid political option. Probably more in 2028 than 2024.

Who would you like to see run? You do a lot of talking but don't provide any options of your own.
 
#178
#178
utvolpj said:
Because you present her as a valid political option when she's simply an actor repeating a script. Pretty sure we have enough not very smart people in office
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Sounds like you are implying Candace Owens is not a smart person. In my opinion, I think you are way off base if that is your position. Her give and takes with people trying "gotcha" questions demonstrate she is very quick witted and knowledgeable.
 
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#179
#179
DonjoVol said:
I'm not disagreeing with you that Carter was a bad president. Honestly I blame it more on democrats being in charge during his presidency. Shows how inept they are when they are in control. Just like they are now.

Mondale still got 40% of the vote in 1984. More than likely from the loyal democrat party followers. Still a rather large percent of the vote overall.
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A yellow dog would get 40% of the vote if it was a Democrat and pile of jello the same thing if it was Republican.

True story: my paternal grandfather wrote in FDR well into the 60s. Said he felt like he owed him. Meanwhile the rest of us all voted Republican.

My maternal grandfather, who grew up in dust-bowl Oklahoma and was pretty much self educated on economics, etc, despised FDR voraciously.
 
#180
#180
GroverCleveland said:
Sounds like you are implying Candace Owens is not a smart person. In my opinion, I think you are way off base if that is your position. Her give takes with people trying "gotcha" questions demonstrate she is very quick witted and knowledgeable.
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More than likely that's why they don't like her. She's way too smart and intelligent. She is also very direct when she is speaking. Apparently traits some of these men in here don't like.
 
#182
#182
GroverCleveland said:
Sounds like you are implying Candace Owens is not a smart person. In my opinion, I think you are way off base if that is your position. Her give and takes with people trying "gotcha" questions demonstrate she is very quick witted and knowledgeable.
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She's really not when you get into details. What she has found is a niche and an audience willing to buy her script.
 
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#183
#183
DonjoVol said:
More than likely that's why they don't like her. She's way too smart and intelligent. She is also very direct when she is speaking. Apparently traits some of these men in here don't like.
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Sorry Donjo, don't believe that either. I think she is respected on here more highly by those on the right than the left. After all, she is off the plantation as far as the left is concerned.
 
#186
#186
GroverCleveland said:
We'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree on that one.
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Go watch her discuss climate change on Rogan and tell me she's intelligent

She's smart in that she found a business model to make money repeating prepared points to the right. People love to listen to those who say things they agree with. Claiming she's smart for saying these things is a way of confirming your own intelligence
 
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#187
#187
DonjoVol said:
She's also not a career politician. She has also questioned and challenged Trump and would be a valid political option. Probably more in 2028 than 2024.

Who would you like to see run? You do a lot of talking but don't provide any options of your own.
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challenging Trump is no big deal. She would get stomped by Michelle Obama if they ran (which sounds possible)

Maybe because there aren't many real options in our system. People for limited govt don't get pushed to the front by or political machine. Who wants to promote a candidate seeking to limit your job and money? A guy like amash would be close to what that is
 
#189
#189
GroverCleveland said:
Well okay, you're right. Carter won 49 electoral votes to Reagan's 489 with Georgia being the only southern state that did not flip Republican from 1976. Based on that, it has to be true no one had a clue Carter was inept.
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Every ranking by people who are experts in the field has Carter over Bush, Ford, certainly Trump; and many more.
I know what the opinion of the average southern whit guy is, and it's irrelevant; almost to the comical point.
 
#191
#191
luthervol said:
Every ranking by people who are experts in the field has Carter over Bush, Ford, certainly Trump; and many more.
I know what the opinion of the average southern whit guy is, and it's irrelevant; almost to the comical point.
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I would suspect that much of his improving standing in the eyes of the rankers has more to do with his humanitarian work after he left office not his actual accomplishments as President. Gerald Ford didn't even serve a full term and was hampered by the Vietnam War fallout and Watergate. I would venture to guess that no modern President had more going against him than Gerald Ford so that is a non-starter. W was an idiot and got us into two never ending wars so I wouldn't disagree with him being lower than Carter. I would also suspect that a lot of the vitriol towards Trump is directed at his personality. I don't think anyone with an open mind could argue that Trump had a much better record economically and its impact on the average consumer as compared to Carter, not to mention the fiasco that was hostage rescue.
 
#192
#192
DonjoVol said:
She's also not a career politician. She has also questioned and challenged Trump and would be a valid political option. Probably more in 2028 than 2024.

Who would you like to see run? You do a lot of talking but don't provide any options of your own.
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She's also never been a chief executive or hell any executive for that matter so she has no business holding the highest office in the land. For the life of me why do people continue to throw names around that have never held a senior executive position inside or (preferably) outside of government?
 
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#193
#193
GroverCleveland said:
Sounds like you are implying Candace Owens is not a smart person. In my opinion, I think you are way off base if that is your position. Her give and takes with people trying "gotcha" questions demonstrate she is very quick witted and knowledgeable.
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True but she has no business sitting in the big office.
 
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#194
#194
luthervol said:
Every ranking by people who are experts in the field has Carter over Bush, Ford, certainly Trump; and many more.
I know what the opinion of the average southern whit guy is, and it's irrelevant; almost to the comical point.
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"Experts" or left leaning journalists and professors?
 
#195
#195
hog88 said:
She's also never been a chief executive or hell any executive for that matter so she has no business holding the highest office in the land. For the life of me why do people continue to throw names around that have never held a senior executive position inside or (preferably) outside of government?
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There's no law that says you have to be in politics or a chief executive in a business to run for president.

Would that really scare if someone who actually rose up from the ranks of the working and middle class became president?
 
#197
#197
DonjoVol said:
There's no law that says you have to be in politics or a chief executive in a business to run for president.

Would that really scare if someone who actually rose up from the ranks of the working and middle class became president?
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I never said there was a law requiring it. I'm saying we shouldn't be promoting people for President that's never held an executive position and been successful. Enough of running Senators and other mouth pieces because that is all they are if they don't have a track record of getting stuff done as "the man".

We've had people rise up from the working and middle class ranks to be president.
 
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#198
#198
DonjoVol said:
Yep. It would terrify you if she became president. Now I know why.

Let me ask you a question. Does it offend you that she is smarter than you?
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Oh great, here we go.

In no way does it offend me that she is not only smarter than me, she is much more educated AND smarter than me. She's very good at what she does but that doesn't make her qualified to be the Chief Executive.
 
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#199
#199
hog88 said:
I never said there was a law requiring it. I'm saying we shouldn't be promoting people for President that's never held an executive position and been successful. Enough of running Senators and other mouth pieces because that is all they are if they don't have a track record of getting stuff done as "the man".
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You do realize she has her own show and had written some books. She has already made a comfortable living for herself and she isn't even 35. Sounds like she has done a good job already making money for herself.

She is more than capable of running for president.
 
#200
#200
landscapingvol said:
I would suspect that much of his improving standing in the eyes of the rankers has more to do with his humanitarian work after he left office not his actual accomplishments as President. Gerald Ford didn't even serve a full term and was hampered by the Vietnam War fallout and Watergate. I would venture to guess that no modern President had more going against him than Gerald Ford so that is a non-starter. W was an idiot and got us into two never ending wars so I wouldn't disagree with him being lower than Carter. I would also suspect that a lot of the vitriol towards Trump is directed at his personality. I don't think anyone with an open mind could argue that Trump had a much better record economically and its impact on the average consumer as compared to Carter, not to mention the fiasco that was hostage rescue.
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The success of a president should never be measured by short term economic impact. In some ways, that may be the worst measure of a president.
Carter is undoubtedly benefiting from his post-presidency (he has provided a blue print which all ex presidents should follow), but Carter is also being viewed by through the prism of time. The issues he emphasized and the ways he tried to address them, even if unsuccessfully, laid the groundwork and changed the conversation for the future.

He was basically to smart and forward thinking for his time. That's why Reagan was so popular in comparison - he wasn't very smart, and he said "screw the future, take on debt - live economically better now than you really should." (as a nation and as individuals)
 
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