It's time for a change

[Majors]

Well I am old and slow. But you all need to stop with the BS.

Here to support the Lady Vols and stop the misinformation that creaks out of every corner on this board. Much has changed since the glory days. We either get with the new rules and ways or well we get right where we are now. Facts.

Which misinformation did you stop? Seems you stepped up and got called out old timer with nothing to back up. You didn’t regale us with a wealth of information of “being in the circle”. Regroup and come on back.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Which misinformation did you stop? Seems you stepped up and got called out old timer with nothing to back up. You didn’t regale us with a wealth of information of “being in the circle”. Regroup and come on back.

don't agg him on
At this point I have your back (whether you care or not)

 

[OldNSlow]

See how I bring people together! Majors and Jumper on the same side. Well I already knew that......

 

[chuckiepoo]

See how I bring people together! Majors and Jumper on the same side. Well I already knew that......

Good point! …had to giggle…

…and hell no. OldnSlow ain’t my damn sock puppet.

 

[butchna]

Not sure why this was hard. Totally agree, separate NIL from recruiting by allowing it only after athlete is enrolled.

So deprive them of INFORMATION until they enroll, and then cloak yourself under TAMPERING rules to prevent them from finding out how much more was available elsewhere? Socialist enough to work.

 

[Volfan2012]

So deprive them of INFORMATION until they enroll, and then cloak yourself under TAMPERING rules to prevent them from finding out how much more was available elsewhere? Socialist enough to work.

Plus it is totally against the law to do so at this time. They are allowed to negotiate with anyone and that is not likely to change. The NCAA rule that says this can't happen is going down the drain real soon.

 

[glv98]

So deprive them of INFORMATION until they enroll, and then cloak yourself under TAMPERING rules to prevent them from finding out how much more was available elsewhere? Socialist enough to work.

I don't disagree with NIL transparency; recruits knowing in general what athletes at a particular school have available to earn. However, I doubt that would hold up in court due to privacy laws.

So is your solution the current situation? Unrestricted free agency every year via unlimited transfer and pay for play for everyone with boosters in an endless, escalating bidding war? Even the pros have to wait 4 or 5 years for their free agency. Easy to see this is unsustainable.

If the genie is truly out of the bottle and recruiting can't be seperated from NIL, then IMO we should give up the guise of amateur athletics in college and simply call them what they are - pro development leagues. If universities want to continue to support and claim these teams, there should probably be a super league for them. That's actually been talked about for awhile with the major college football teams. Then let the rest of the teams, the vast majority, continue to compete as amateurs, but keeping the ability for athletes to profit off their own jersey sales. Which is the simple but noble notion from which all this crap sprang.

 

[glv98]

Plus it is totally against the law to do so at this time. They are allowed to negotiate with anyone and that is not likely to change. The NCAA rule that says this can't happen is going down the drain real soon.

So total free agency pay for play with unlimited transfer? Surley people can see that's not sustainable.

Again, even the pros don't have this. Maybe they should go back to court and get their free agency reworked to where they can take bids every year. But why wait? If you get a better deal mid season, go for it. Are leagues that teams join able to have any rules at all?

No one can manage a roster under the current circumstances. This is way, way out of control.

 

[Volfan2012]

So total free agency pay for play with unlimited transfer? Surley people can see that's not sustainable.

Again, even the pros don't have this. Maybe they should go back to court and get their free agency reworked to where they can take bids every year. But why wait? If you get a better deal mid season, go for it. Are leagues that teams join able to have any rules at all?

No one can manage a roster under the current circumstances. This is way, way out of control.

Whether you or I like it or not the law is clear right now 9 to 0 Supreme court. The teams have been playing under the guise that they will agree to the rule the NCAA has layed out even though it is not lawful. All someone has to do is take it to court if for any reason they try to stop any player from negotiating. Right now they are doing all the negotiating they want and the schools are right there negotiating back. This is why the NCAA is now trying to enforce that rule and well Tennessee says no not happening and so does the state of Tennessee and Virginia so on April 13th we will get our answer.

If the states win which is fully expected because of the Supreme court ruling then the NCAA law is voided to any school that doesn't want to accept it. Then yes players will again be free to see all the offers they have and pick the highest offer before they ever play a game or set foot on a college campus. They have been doing that anyway. The reason no one has been complaining about the NCAA rule is because they have been negotiating with players and making deals through collectives which the NCAA is now saying is against the rules so here we go April 13th.

 

[glv98]

Whether you or I like it or not the law is clear right now 9 to 0 Supreme court. The teams have been playing under the guise that they will agree to the rule the NCAA has layed out even though it is not lawful. All someone has to do is take it to court if for any reason they try to stop any player from negotiating. Right now they are doing all the negotiating they want and the schools are right there negotiating back. This is why the NCAA is now trying to enforce that rule and well Tennessee says no not happening and so does the state of Tennessee and Virginia so on April 13th we will get our answer.

If the states win which is fully expected because of the Supreme court ruling then the NCAA law is voided to any school that doesn't want to accept it. Then yes players will again be free to see all the offers they have and pick the highest offer before they ever play a game or set foot on a college campus. They have been doing that anyway. The reason no one has been complaining about the NCAA rule is because they have been negotiating with players and making deals through collectives which the NCAA is now saying is against the rules so here we go April 13th.

So "whether we like it or not" college sports is now a better paying gig than the NFL or NBA bc a player can be an unrestricted free agent for pay for play bidding every year? Why stop there; shouldn't the courts agree to mid season transfers? Transfer after 1 game if you didn't like the pregame meal? I'm sure the NFL and NBA players associations would rush to court to tear up the current agreements and open free agency at all times.

Do umbrella groups like leagues and associations have any right to make any governing rules? Looks like there's no real purpose for those as millions and eventually billions get pumped into paying college football players to transfer. As juicy as all this looks right now for the players, I'm not sure why anyone can't see this is an eventual recipe for disaster.

BTW, this completely the fault of the childish, petulent NCAA which threw this revolutionary change out there with zero clear rules or policy and no thought of what would be legal. Therefore they deserve to be taken down. But this unrestricted wild west is still a terrible, awful idea.

 

[Volfan2012]

So "whether we like it or not" college sports is now a better paying gig than the NFL or NBA bc a player can be an unrestricted free agent for pay for play bidding every year? Why stop there; shouldn't the courts agree to mid season transfers? Transfer after 1 game if you didn't like the pregame meal? I'm sure the NFL and NBA players associations would rush to court to tear up the current agreements and open free agency at all times.

Do umbrella groups like leagues and associations have any right to make any governing rules? Looks like there's no real purpose for those as millions and eventually billions get pumped into paying college football players to transfer. As juicy as all this looks right now for the players, I'm not sure why anyone can't see this is an eventual recipe for disaster.

BTW, this completely the fault of the childish, petulent NCAA which threw this revolutionary change out there with zero clear rules or policy and no thought of what would be legal. Therefore they deserve to be taken down. But this unrestricted wild west is still a terrible, awful idea.

To some players yes like Nico. Heard the LSU defensive tackle got a million to come here. Ohio State just negotiated five players cost 13 million. Really not costing the schools all of the money is coming from school collectives and donations from fans and of course big donations from boosters. Look what Baron did transferred to Ole Miss cause he didn't like his deal here and got there got a better deal from Louisville and that is where he landed. So we'll see what happens on April 13th as that could change everything for good or temporarily while it goes from court to court back to the Supreme court. Never be the money you can get in the Pros still millions and Florida you know made a deal with a player for 13 million and didn't have the money to pay him so he left. Now that is a real bad situation as player not happy NCAA is in it and what can they do?

Other than NIL the other cause for alarm is the transfer rules. Players can already transfers twice and be eligible immediately and some say a player could take that to court and be allowed to transfer all they want and be eligible. That is something that would be hard to deal with. I can deal with the NIL just let the boosters use their money to get players they can't get them all. Sure the richer schools will get the most of them. The way it will probably play out is we'll have a super conference of about 40 to 50 schools and I would look for one of them to be the champion in every sport when that happens. The SEC and Big Ten are already talking about this for football.

 

[Volfan2012]

To add this all got started now cause NCAA tried to punch Tennessee in the nose for something everyone in the country is doing. Tennessee knowing this is fighting back even if it means killing the NCAA. Tennessee is not willing to take punishment for something every school in the country is doing in plain view negotiating with transfers and high school players.

 

[glv98]

Someone already called me a socialist today so I'll just go ahead and say, the moral underpinnings of this are just appalling. I'm a judgemental lefty (not quite a socialist) but the idea of these millions, and undoubtably eventually billions, poured into the latest, greatest quarterback in a state at the bottom of the heap in education and child poverty is just unbelievable. I know it's not new, and people can do what they want with their money, but these prioriities are just, just . . .

 

[Majors]

See how I bring people together! Majors and Jumper on the same side. Well I already knew that......

Not accurate. CJ has found himself with my line of thinking occasionally and mine with his, well before you attempted to step in.

 

[glv98]

To add this all got started now cause NCAA tried to punch Tennessee in the nose for something everyone in the country is doing. Tennessee knowing this is fighting back even if it means killing the NCAA. Tennessee is not willing to take punishment for something every school in the country is doing in plain view negotiating with transfers and high school players.

I don't doubt any of that. But let's look ahead, which no one wants to do. If the NCAA goes away, who or what governs college sports? Maybe no one, and it's all just wild west free for all until the inevitable pay the piper moment comes around. But are any organizing principles or rules allowed?

Other than NIL the other cause for alarm is the transfer rules. Players can already transfers twice and be eligible immediately and some say a player could take that to court and be allowed to transfer all they want and be eligible.

Didn't a court already rule for unlimited transfer and say that can proceed now while that ruling is on appeal? Also said if the rule is taken down no one can be punished for transferring while the rule is in effect.

This is one of the problems. Once you start stripping rules and going to court, it's katie bar the door. We are looking at free transfer any time and unlimited pay for play or pay for stay money induced recruiting. Who would want to coach or manage a roster under those circumstances? I know coaching staffs make alot of money, but there wouldn't be enough for me to want to try to survive under those circumstances.

 

[Majors]

Someone already called me a socialist today so I'll just go ahead and say, the moral underpinnings of this are just appalling. I'm a judgemental lefty (not quite a socialist) but the idea of these millions, and undoubtably eventually billions, poured into the latest, greatest quarterback in a state at the bottom of the heap in education and child poverty is just unbelievable. I know it's not new, and people can do what they want with their money, but these prioriities are just, just . . .

Starts at home, not individuals as you said doing what they want with their money.

 

[Volfan2012]

I don't doubt any of that. But let's look ahead, which no one wants to do. If the NCAA goes away, who or what governs college sports? Maybe no one, and it's all just wild west free for all until the inevitable pay the piper moment comes around. But are any organizing principles or rules allowed?


Didn't a court already rule for unlimited transfer and say that can proceed now while that ruling is on appeal? Also said if the rule is taken down no one can be punished for transferring while the rule is in effect.

This is one of the problems. Once you start stripping rules and going to court, it's katie bar the door. We are looking at free transfer any time and unlimited pay for play or pay for stay money induced recruiting. Who would want to coach or manage a roster under those circumstances? I know coaching staffs make alot of money, but there wouldn't be enough for me to want to try to survive under those circumstances.

Yes but only two times then sit out on third. Thinking is if someone challenges it could go to as many transfers as you want and eligible. Cooper could've challenged it might have gained eligibility.

 

[Volfan2012]

I don't doubt any of that. But let's look ahead, which no one wants to do. If the NCAA goes away, who or what governs college sports? Maybe no one, and it's all just wild west free for all until the inevitable pay the piper moment comes around. But are any organizing principles or rules allowed?


Didn't a court already rule for unlimited transfer and say that can proceed now while that ruling is on appeal? Also said if the rule is taken down no one can be punished for transferring while the rule is in effect.

This is one of the problems. Once you start stripping rules and going to court, it's katie bar the door. We are looking at free transfer any time and unlimited pay for play or pay for stay money induced recruiting. Who would want to coach or manage a roster under those circumstances? I know coaching staffs make alot of money, but there wouldn't be enough for me to want to try to survive under those circumstances.

Needs rules really do just don't think the NCAA can handle it. We really need laws instead of rules and then laws can't really infringe on people's rights in a free country. At least need where you can't transfer out of a session of school. As far as NIL Congress would have to give a governing body exemption from anti trust laws and the way congress works might take years or they might be totally unreceptive to doing that. NCAA is not anti trust exempt so that is why they can't ever win against players being able to negotiate deals. Because without anti trust exemption same as anyone going for a job at multiple different places and seeing what deals they get before they decide. This is not my big problem. The big problem is someone offering a better deal after you have already accepted a deal. This would be terrible. A quarterback quits in the middle of a football game cause he got a call at halftime offering him more money. I hope it doesn't get to that cause then college sports is doomed.

 

[Majors]

Yes but only two times then sit out on third. Thinking is if someone challenges it could go to as many transfers as you want and eligible. Cooper could've challenged it might have gained eligibility.

If you get to a 3rd, it’s not the schools.

 

[Volfan2012]

If you get to a 3rd, it’s not the schools.

No it isn't and some are at three and have another transfer in their pocket if they want to use it.

 

[turbovol]

Using NIL as a recruiting inducement is a FOOL'S GAME--a sucker's game. Do UT fans think it's going to give us a recruiting advantage over all the other majors in the country--all of whom also have boatloads of crazy boosters/fans and collectives with piles of money? Don't be naive--it won't.

There is no advantage in it for us or anybody else. All it amounts to is a bunch of collectives running around acting like desperate supplicants--hoping to shower some 18-year-olds with money so that he or she will sign with us. Sure, we can win a few select bribery contests--and let's not kid ourselves, NIL in recruiting is just bribery--if we offer some crazy, embarrassing sum of money. And all the other majors will win their share as well. And all the majors will lose a lot of bidding contests. All the majors---egged on by their crazy fans--are hyper-competitive, irrationally competitive--and so nobody is going to sit around and lets its rivals outbid it for top prospects.

So what, in the end, is the point? We've got fans who think if we just get more people to send their hard-earned money to the collective, we'll win more recruiting/bribery battles and have better teams. It won't work--because all the majors are the same: crazy. And meanwhile, all the majors are just turning high-schoolers into cynical, money-grubbing mercenaries--half of whom will transfer after a year or two after signing with some sucker school anyway.

UT and others can sue the NCAA and try to win back the right to bribe high-schoolers, but, again, to what end? That we want to be free to corrupt 18-year-olds? There is no advantage in it for us or anyone else. If the majors were wise, they'd all agree to abide by the NCAA's rules and use NIL ONLY for current student-athletes--which is how it was conceived--not as a recruiting inducement. Recruiting should be about selling your tradition, your program, facilities, coaches, academics---not who can pony up the most money for some kid and her money-hungry parents. At the end of the day the majors will have to decide if they want to retain a bit of integrity in college athletics. There's not much left---but there will be none the way things are going.

P.S.: It shouldn't surprise anybody that NIL was first hatched in, as I recall, the georgia state legislature, followed by Alabama and then, maybe Kentucky. They were all SEC states---natch---and I think Oklahoma and Ohio quickly jumped in with their own bills. Which proves my point.

 

[Majors]

No it isn't and some are at three and have another transfer in their pocket if they want to use it.

We will disagree. If a student athlete chooses 3-4 schools in their playing window more times than not, it’s not the school.

 

[Volfan2012]

We will disagree. If a student athlete chooses 3-4 schools in their playing window more times than not, it’s not the school.

I just said no it isn't meaning the school. How could a school be at blame if a player transfers three times.

 

[madtownvol]

Someone already called me a socialist today so I'll just go ahead and say, the moral underpinnings of this are just appalling. I'm a judgemental lefty (not quite a socialist) but the idea of these millions, and undoubtably eventually billions, poured into the latest, greatest quarterback in a state at the bottom of the heap in education and child poverty is just unbelievable. I know it's not new, and people can do what they want with their money, but these prioriities are just, just . . .

Well, we are seeing the neoliberalization of college sports where everyone is a "free agent". But full on professionalization, as opposed to this quasi-status. could put impose some order and limits on this chaos. Pro athletes are bound by the contract they sign, though as we have seen with holdouts and trade demands, that contract does not solve all problems but management does not have to honor these request or pay the athlete who is holding out. The contract still provides some stability.

I am not sure what it would take to make scholarship agreements into binding professional contracts but it would certainly require the schools to pay the athletes as employees of the institution. And that is the very commitment the NCAA has been seeking to avoid though NIL, where the financial responsibility can be passed off to donors and businesses. If you want to place blame, I would look to the institution that has created this mess. The athletes are adapting to a neoliberal wild wild west because D1 schools want their athletes to be subsidized by other parties.

Everyone agrees that the current system is unsustainable. It is only a matter of time before it implodes and what rises from those ashes will probably be a very different kind of "college athletics."

 

[Volfan2012]

Well, we are seeing the neoliberalization of college sports where everyone is a "free agent". But full on professionalization, as opposed to this quasi-status. could put impose some order and limits on this chaos. Pro athletes are bound by the contract they sign, though as we have seen with holdouts and trade demands, that contract does not solve all problems but management does not have to honor these request or pay the athlete who is holding out. The contract still provides some stability.

I am not sure what it would take to make scholarship agreements into binding professional contracts but it would certainly require the schools to pay the athletes as employees of the institution. And that is the very commitment the NCAA has been seeking to avoid though NIL, where the financial responsibility can be passed off to donors and businesses. If you want to place blame, I would look to the institution that has created this mess. The athletes are adapting to a neoliberal wild wild west because D1 schools want their athletes to be subsidized by other parties.

Everyone agrees that the current system is unsustainable. It is only a matter of time before it implodes and what rises from those ashes will probably be a very different kind of "college athletics."

I could see where you could sign a college athlete to a deal that would be voided if they transferred to another school. This being if schools were allowed to make the deals with collectives for the Athletes they were pursuing. It would be terrible to have to go to all the trouble or getting an athlete on a deal and then they leave in six months with no penalty. If were going free agent let us at least make the deals binding as contracts so schools can have some stability as well.