James Franklin is supposedly....

#632
#632
KBVol said:
One of my high school teams finished in a 3 way tie for the district championship. We were all 9-1. We each lost 1 game to each other..... Were we all 3 bad teams because we split the championship?

It's utterly amazing to me that you guys will go to the mat to defend Franklin's record of beating bad teams, all the while going out of your way to disparage our current coach.

What is the impulse? Dooley guy? Kiffin guy? Fulmer guy? .... Franklin guy? Or just anti-Butch guy?
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Same thing happened in the SEC in 1989 between UT, Bama, and Auburn. All 3 finished 10-1 in the regular season, IIRC. That wasn't the case in the Big East last season. Not the same.

I'm only defending Franklin's record to the extent of UT fans dismissing it while praising Butch's when he arrived at UT. They're pretty similar. That's all I'm saying.
 
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#633
#633
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Been preaching pretty much the same message here for a while now. Bobby and Robbie followed a strategy of building depth through redshirting. I'm not sure what they're left with this year. I want Franklin to stay because I think his comeuppance is around the corner and I'd love to watch the meltdown. If he does leave they'll lose about half their recruiting class and no decent coach is going to want to walk in there and follow up the best 3 years they've had in the modern era with a depleted roster. Then there's the dilemma that if they don't hire another black coach they'll lose a big chunk of their newfound fan base. This looks like the type of situation where you need to find an alumni who will come back and stabilize the program. MacIntyre has a job. Maybe they go to Jeff Brothers.
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Nailed it on losing half the class and the race issue. It's good to be wise.
 
#635
#635
Boca Vol said:
Same thing happened in the SEC in 1989 between UT, Bama, and Auburn. All 3 finished 10-1 in the regular season, IIRC. That wasn't the case in the Big East last season. Not the same.

I'm only defending Franklin's record to the extent of UT fans dismissing it while praising Butch's when he arrived at UT. They're pretty similar. That's all I'm saying.
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You're saying 4 conference championships don't beat what Franklin did at Vandy? Franklin didn't beat many teams that finished above .500.
 
#637
#637
Siap. I heard a rumor a couple days ago about jimmy frank and wanted to know if anyone else had heard the same thing.

Supposedly anytime someone would interview for an assistant coach position he would make said person bring his wife or a picture of his wife because if their wife wasn't pretty franklin said that person wouldn't be a good recruiter.
 
#638
#638
volfan_89 said:
Siap. I heard a rumor a couple days ago about jimmy frank and wanted to know if anyone else had heard the same thing.

Supposedly anytime someone would interview for an assistant coach position he would make said person bring his wife or a picture of his wife because if their wife wasn't pretty franklin said that person wouldn't be a good recruiter.
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NSIS... But...

Franklin said this, then had to go back and apologize for saying it.
 
#639
#639
Burger said:
You're saying 4 conference championships don't beat what Franklin did at Vandy? Franklin didn't beat many teams that finished above .500.
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I'm saying look at the competition. According to your logic, Nick Saban sucks as a coach because he wasn't successful in the NFL. But since you want to prop up Butch's 4 conference titles, let's look at that stellar 2012 Cincy team.

Their best win was against an 8-5 Syracuse team. Followed by a win against VT which finished 7-6. They also beat 2 FCS teams (Fordham & Delaware St.) which finished with 6-5 records. That's one of the more pathetic conference "champions" I've seen in a while.

I hope Butch gets it done, but to say he's heads and shoulders above Franklin at this point in their careers is a bit pre-mature.
 
#640
#640
Boca Vol said:
I'm saying look at the competition. According to your logic, Nick Saban sucks as a coach because he wasn't successful in the NFL. But since you want to prop up Butch's 4 conference titles, let's look at that stellar 2012 Cincy team.

Their best win was against an 8-5 Syracuse team. Followed by a win against VT which finished 7-6. They also beat 2 FCS teams (Fordham & Delaware St.) which finished with 6-5 records. That's one of the more pathetic conference "champions" I've seen in a while.

I hope Butch gets it done, but to say he's heads and shoulders above Franklin at this point in their careers is a bit pre-mature.
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All relative. Butch beat the teams on his level. He won championships against some mediocre/ bad teams, but he did it with mediocre/bad Big East talent.

Franklin had much better talent to work with. Jordan Matthews would have been a heisman contender in the Big East. Zac Stacy would have been the best RB in the conference, even when Isaiah Pead was at Cincy.

Gotta factor these things in.
 
#641
#641
chatt-townVOL said:
All relative. Butch beat the teams on his level. He won championships against some mediocre/ bad teams, but he did it with mediocre/bad Big East talent.

Franklin had much better talent to work with. Jordan Matthews would have been a heisman contender in the Big East. Zac Stacy would have been the best RB in the conference, even when Isaiah Pead was at Cincy.

Gotta factor these things in.
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According to the recruiting services, Vandy wasn't that talented. What happened? Were they coached up?

Since we're factoring in competition, Vandy is in the SEC so the players you mentioned (that would have been Heisman and all-conference in the Big East) were "meh" in the SEC.

Holding Vandy to same standard as UT, Bama, UF, UGA, LSU, & Auburn isn't fair. Yes, Vandy is in the SEC, but they haven't been relative since the leather helmet days.
 
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#642
#642
Boca Vol said:
Holding Vandy to same standard as UT, Bama, UF, UGA, LSU, & Auburn isn't fair. Yes, Vandy is in the SEC, but they haven't been relative since the leather helmet days.
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I'll disagree. They can and should be held to the same standards. Nobody says Stanford is handicapped in sports because they have higher admission standards. And the same should be said of Vandy. And one of Franklin's biggest "wins" was the fact he did recruit on a higher level. The man was a certified douche, but he could recruit good players that also met the academic standards.

Point being, you want to play in the big leagues, you have to recruit like the big leagues. The standards for the SEC are fair across the board and just because Vanderbilt isn't known as a powerhouse in football doesn't mean they cannot be held to the same standards as UT, Florida, Bama, et al.
 
#643
#643
Grand Vol said:
I'll disagree. They can and should be held to the same standards. Nobody says Stanford is handicapped in sports because they have higher admission standards. And the same should be said of Vandy. And one of Franklin's biggest "wins" was the fact he did recruit on a higher level. The man was a certified douche, but he could recruit good players that also met the academic standards.

Point being, you want to play in the big leagues, you have to recruit like the big leagues. The standards for the SEC are fair across the board and just because Vanderbilt isn't known as a powerhouse in football doesn't mean they cannot be held to the same standards as UT, Florida, Bama, et al.
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Do you think Stanford would be as successful in the SEC as they are in the Pac-12? The Pac isn't nearly as tough from top to bottom as the SEC, and hasn't been since the 40s.
 
#644
#644
bamawriter said:
Do you think Stanford would be as successful in the SEC as they are in the Pac-12? The Pac isn't nearly as tough from top to bottom as the SEC, and hasn't been since the 40s.
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I think they could be competitive in the SEC. They seem to recruit well for the offense and defense they play and have had pretty decent success against the ranked opponents they schedule.

Success is a relative term. Do I feel they would win the SEC year in and out? No, but then again, there isn't an SEC team that has that kind of success either. Do I feel they could be competitive against teams from the SEC like most are? Probably so. The SEC always has a few teams that can and will knock a team out of NC or SECCG contention. I would imagine Stanford would be no different in that regard.
 
#645
#645
Grand Vol said:
I'll disagree. They can and should be held to the same standards. Nobody says Stanford is handicapped in sports because they have higher admission standards. And the same should be said of Vandy. And one of Franklin's biggest "wins" was the fact he did recruit on a higher level. The man was a certified douche, but he could recruit good players that also met the academic standards.

Point being, you want to play in the big leagues, you have to recruit like the big leagues. The standards for the SEC are fair across the board and just because Vanderbilt isn't known as a powerhouse in football doesn't mean they cannot be held to the same standards as UT, Florida, Bama, et al.
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So, in other words, Franklin (in only 3 years) dismantled nearly a century of cellar-dwelling for Vandy. I'd say that's a pretty good coach.

Are you going to hold Jones to that same standard? How long does he get in your opinion? Jones didn't walk into a worse situation than Franklin did at Vandy. The upside should be quicker at UT with the resources.
 
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#646
#646
Grand Vol said:
I think they could be competitive in the SEC. They seem to recruit well for the offense and defense they play and have had pretty decent success against the ranked opponents they schedule.

Success is a relative term. Do I feel they would win the SEC year in and out? No, but then again, there isn't an SEC team that has that kind of success either. Do I feel they could be competitive against teams from the SEC like most are? Probably so. The SEC always has a few teams that can and will knock a team out of NC or SECCG contention. I would imagine Stanford would be no different in that regard.
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I think Stanford would actually do well in the SEC, they play the kind of ball that wins in this league and I really don't think the talent level is a big drop for them. I'm not sure they could win like Bama but they could be every bit as successful as LSU, UGA and UF have been.
 
#647
#647
Boca Vol said:
So, in other words, Franklin (in only 3 years) dismantled nearly a century of cellar-dwelling for Vandy. I'd say that's a pretty good coach.
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I'd say it remained to be seen with Franklin. Just because he had the advantage of some down years in the SEC East doesn't make him the next Bear Bryant. Time will tell on whether or not he can take a program into the big leagues. Who knows, next year Vandy might have gone 2-10 with him at the helm. Hard to say when he's only been a head coach at one stop.

Boca Vol said:
Are you going to hold Jones to that same standard? How long does he get in your opinion? Jones didn't walk into a worse situation than Franklin did at Vandy. The upside should be quicker at UT with the resources.
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I believe Jones has the ability based on prior experience. But like Franklin, time will tell. Major difference is Jones has been a head coach longer and at more stops than Franklin, so the ability to put the two side by side isn't a fair comparison.

As for how long? I'd say we should see marked improvement in on field performance this year and significant improvement the season after.
 
#648
#648
Grand Vol said:
I'd say it remained to be seen with Franklin. Just because he had the advantage of some down years in the SEC East doesn't make him the next Bear Bryant. Time will tell on whether or not he can take a program into the big leagues. Who knows, next year Vandy might have gone 2-10 with him at the helm. Hard to say when he's only been a head coach at one stop.
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That's been my whole point regarding Franklin. He's only been a HC for 3 years...in the SEC...at the the worst program historically.

There are many on here that point to Jones' accomplishments as a measure that he's a better coach than Franklin but it's an apples to oranges comparison between the MAC/ Big East and the SEC.



Grand Vol said:
I believe Jones has the ability based on prior experience. But like Franklin, time will tell. Major difference is Jones has been a head coach longer and at more stops than Franklin, so the ability to put the two side by side isn't a fair comparison.

As for how long? I'd say we should see marked improvement in on field performance this year and significant improvement the season after.
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That's one unknown with Jones. He's never been anywhere long enough to have a full cycle of players. If his recruiting stays at this level, UT should be fine if he's a good coach.
 
#650
#650
Grand Vol said:
I think they could be competitive in the SEC. They seem to recruit well for the offense and defense they play and have had pretty decent success against the ranked opponents they schedule.

Success is a relative term. Do I feel they would win the SEC year in and out? No, but then again, there isn't an SEC team that has that kind of success either. Do I feel they could be competitive against teams from the SEC like most are? Probably so. The SEC always has a few teams that can and will knock a team out of NC or SECCG contention. I would imagine Stanford would be no different in that regard.
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I thought Franklin's big secret was he got players enrolled in the part of Vandy that had lower academic standards.
 
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