January 6 Retribution Begins

#126
#126
AM64 said:
"Free speech" morphed from written or spoken words to actions - sometimes violent. And "peaceful assembly" has been allowed to include counter demonstrators/protestors ensuring violence and attempting to drown out the message of others. Governments own a lot of the blame for failure to keep the peace. Remember Charlottesville? One group actually had a permit - government failed to remove the counter demonstrators that turned things violent. Did you notice that once inside the halls of government that things were peaceful on Jan 6th. Do you actually think the legislators (the government) would have listened to protestors addressing grievances if the protestors remained outside? If legislators listen, then why do you think people feel the need to demonstrate?
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I don't think, "but somebody else did something somewhere else and didn't get in trouble," is a defense in court. Neither is, "we knew they weren't going to do what we want. so we broke into the building to make them listen to us."
 
#130
#130
clarksvol00 said:
I don't think, "but somebody else did something somewhere else and didn't get in trouble," is a defense in court. Neither is, "we knew they weren't going to do what we want. so we broke into the building to make them listen to us."
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A big part of our law is based on precedence - how a court decided to handle an event. Courts in that case are the governing body. I fail to see the difference if local, state, federal, or especially a collaboration of them decided how to handle a past event. Governments were the ruling bodies when they set precedence - like allowing protestors to take over an area or burn down a police station. We had a summer of that; the message was there for all to see. In a land where people are supposedly treated equally treatments should not depend on the message people wish to convey.
 
#132
#132
AM64 said:
A big part of our law is based on precedence - how a court decided to handle an event. Courts in that case are the governing body. I fail to see the difference if local, state, federal, or especially a collaboration of them decided how to handle a past event. Governments were the ruling bodies when they set precedence - like allowing protestors to take over an area or burn down a police station. We had a summer of that; the message was there for all to see. In a land where people are supposedly treated equally treatments should not depend on the message people wish to convey.
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Has a court allowed those those things you speak of? I thought the various law enforcement agencies just didn't do anything?
 
#134
#134
clarksvol00 said:
Has a court allowed those those things you speak of? I thought the various law enforcement agencies just didn't do anything?
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My point was rather simple. In some cases courts are the presiding entity, in some cases executive parts of government are the presiding entities - we have three legal bodies of government. Precedent can be written, or it can be practice. Failure of governing bodies to act consistently leads both to misunderstanding of allowable behavior and to disrespect of government.
 
#135
#135
AM64 said:
My point was rather simple. In some cases courts are the presiding entity, in some cases executive parts of government are the presiding entities - we have three legal bodies of government. Precedent can be written, or it can be practice. Failure of governing bodies to act consistently leads both to misunderstanding of allowable behavior and to disrespect of government.
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I'm gonna disagree that court precedent operates this way. The actions of the mayor of Portland (or wherever) in deciding what to have the police do in a riot has no precedential value in defending a claim under a federal statute in DC.
 
#141
#141
AM64 said:
A big part of our law is based on precedence - how a court decided to handle an event. Courts in that case are the governing body. I fail to see the difference if local, state, federal, or especially a collaboration of them decided how to handle a past event. Governments were the ruling bodies when they set precedence - like allowing protestors to take over an area or burn down a police station. We had a summer of that; the message was there for all to see. In a land where people are supposedly treated equally treatments should not depend on the message people wish to convey.
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The word you're searching for is legal "precedent."
 
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#144
#144
evillawyer said:
FAFO, b*tches!

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Unfortunately for Grandma Powell and many other rednecks/MAGA, they were foolish enough to allow themselves get played by
a lying gangster--fact. The rubes, lost in their political bias, allowed themselves to be duped by a corrupt man who doesn't respect our laws--and they continue to be played as fools. There was never an iota of evidence of vote fraud. It was the gangster's plan ALL ALONG to lie about vote fraud were he to lose. People who let themselves get duped with transparent lies....well, they can't be respected. And GOP pols are absolutely pathetic: Nearly all of them know that the gangster lied--and lies about most everything--but they're too cowardly to say so for fear of alienating the rubes in their constituencies and losing their cushy congressional jobs.
 
#148
#148
lawgator1 said:
There was an attempted one.
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I probably should have been more clear. Just saying insurrection can kind of mean different things to different people.

Do you fully believe that on that day this thread is about there was a clear and coordinated attempt to overthrow the government of the United States from Donald Trump and his supporters at his rally?
 
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#149
#149
just bob said:
I probably should have been more clear. Just saying insurrection can kind of mean different things to different people.

Do you fully believe that on that day this thread is about there was a clear and coordinated attempt to overthrow the government of the United States from Donald Trump and his supporters at his rally?
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To be precise:

1) Trump promoted the group heading to the WH to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power. By itself, that is not insurrection BY TRUMP.

2) I can believe that Trump did not initially realize that the group would become as threatening and as violent and as disruptive as they were. That is probably not what he had in mind when he initially spoke to them. By itself, that is not insurrection BY TRUMP.

3) Members of the group resorted to violence in an effort to stop the peaceful transfer of power. By definition, that is insurrection by those that did so.

4) Once it began and was out of hand, I do believe Trump was very much aware of it and was in fact delighted by it because it fed his ego. This includes knowing of the threats being made to Pence, among others. He should have jumped in far earlier and more forcefully than he did. I'd say it was his failure to intervene (and to do so only grudgingly) that is his biggest fault.
 
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#150
#150
just bob said:
I probably should have been more clear. Just saying insurrection can kind of mean different things to different people.

Do you fully believe that on that day this thread is about there was a clear and coordinated attempt to overthrow the government of the United States from Donald Trump and his supporters at his rally?
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I believe that Donny stood idly by while his supporters took his words to "march on the Capitol and fight like hell" literally.

They then used violence to storm and riot in the Capitol building in an attempt to stop the certification of the electoral votes. The violence and rioting culminating in at least one death wherein the VP and Representatives had to be evacuated or barricade themselves.

Suggesting that this didn't rise to meet your definition of an insurrection really just means you don't want to accept reality because it's inconvenient.
 
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