Jason Shay resigned at ETSU

#76
#76
Interesting thread and takes on both sides. But here's one no one seems to think about with all the hoopla.

Basketball is an entertainment business. And the players/coaches at ETSU failed Marketing 101: know your market environment.

No one has to watch basketball. And if some aspects of it (kneeling/standing/spitting on the sidewalk/etc) are disagreeable to the target customer base, well there are market consequences.

It has been mentioned the kids are mostly black and we know the chances of a professional BB career are virtually nil. The chances of getting a degree, establishing a solid network of relationships and ensuring future life success are substantially higher.

I am not saying they should/should not kneel or bow or curtsy before, during or after a game. But I am saying the players and coaches need to be aware of their customer base and that they are, indeed, in a business.
 
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#78
#78
mr.checkerboards said:
Maybe but living in the area I have other ideas. Im wondering if the back lash he got for allowing his team to kneel at one point in the season had anything to do with it.
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Yep! Coaches are in a tough spot. No matter which side they choose they are "biting the hand that feeds them." You either upset the players or the boosters. They can't win.
 
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#79
#79
kbowersjr said:
The vast majority of donors and season ticket holders were very upset by the actions of the team and coaches. Perhaps it is time to eliminate tax payer funded minor leagues, I realize sports Bring in revenue, but with the actions of some of our recruits lately I have to question my support of the whole system. A free education to be an ambassador for the school is a wonderful deal, I wish my college had been free, but I was lucky, my father worked himself silly to help, I will do the same for my children, it is time for everyone to appreciate the free tuition, room, and board these young people receive to play sports for the taxpayer funded Universities.
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As a season ticket holder of this team, I whole heartedly disagree with everything you stated.

Mid level basketball can be extremely entertaining. It gives the community something to cheer for. Pulling together a roster and building a team is almost more difficult, considering the talent gaps and backgrounds (many juco transfers make up these teams, and now with the portal, better players can transfer up)

The kids kneeled to exercise their right to free speech. The same people who were “outraged” are also the same people that thought invading our nations capitol was “their right to protest”.

Don’t give me the “free scholarship” nonsense. These Universities, even ETSU make millions in tickets sales, marketing sales, and other revenues from these players entertaining fans.

Furthermore, most athletic budgets are totally separate and operate independent of academic budgets, which are partially made up of tax funding.

God bless your fathers work ethic, we could all use that.
 
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#80
#80
TheMookieMonster said:
Absolutely disgusting and shameful if he was asked to resign because of supporting his player’s right to kneel. I’m not saying I support the kneeling, I am neutral on that whole subject honestly. But, to have him resign because he supported his players and didn’t cave to pressure is embarrassing and good luck getting young men to commit to your university in the future.
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I understand everyone's opinion on their feelings and rights to kneel. But.....I will respectfully disagree (and not trying to start an argument with anyone). Why do I feel kneeling is wrong during the time of playing the National Anthem and the Respect for the Flag? It's because as a veteran I fought and defended those rights and well as my country. And.....My oath did not stop just because I became a veteran. It never expires. But most importantly and primarily.......The main and number one reason that I do not agree with kneeling is because I follow the Code for the Flag and the Code for the National Anthem. It is very, VERY clearly written in what we should be doing. Kneeling is NOT part of those codes. It's one reason you see some people walking stop at the moment they hear the music.....Turn and face the music, take their hats off and stand in silence, with a salute or hand over their heart. It was what I was taught in the military and what I follow. It's very clearly written and I will continue to follow it the rest of my life. While I do not agree with kneeling during these times, I have no heartburn if anyone takes a knee before or after these times. But....I will never follow or support a team that does this. I have continued to stick to these words because it is my right to do so just like its yours to feel opposite of me. I'm not about forcing my beliefs on anyone but more about why I do not support it. Just expressing my reasons and not wanting to argue with anyone.....Just an old school and old man's beliefs that does not agree with or fit in with the modern world we have.
 
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#83
#83
UneducatedGuess said:
The kids kneeled to exercise their right to free speech. The same people who were “outraged” are also the same people that thought invading our nations capitol was “their right to protest”.
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An awful lot of generalization in that statement, regardless of which side of the fence you stand on.
 
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#84
#84
While I don’t agree with kneeling during the anthem. I also don’t agree with what happened after it occurred with ETSUs team. Politicians and others trying to pressure the school/coach. I don’t know if Shay was actually asked to resign. As some have mentioned it seems if he really believed in what he was doing he would just dare them to fire him. Maybe they offered him a sweetheart deal to walk away.
 
#85
#85
creekerballer said:
While I don’t agree with kneeling during the anthem. I also don’t agree with what happened after it occurred with ETSUs team. Politicians and others trying to pressure the school/coach. I don’t know if Shay was actually asked to resign. As some have mentioned it seems if he really believed in what he was doing he would just dare them to fire him. Maybe they offered him a sweetheart deal to walk away.
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Most on the ETSU message board have already made up their minds of what happened, but there has to be more to this story.
 
#86
#86
Volsfan895 said:
This thread has made it easier to know who to put on my ignore list. The players and Shay did the right thing. I’m very disappointed by ETSU.
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I don’t have a strong opinion on this topic personally. I think I understand why many folks, especially those who served in the military are emotionally opposed to any perceived disrespect to our country. I also think I understand why many minorities feel the system is biased against them and their desire to bring attention to that.

What I struggle to understand is why the coach would feel that during his working hours he was free to participate in political activities. I’ve always felt that during working hours I’ve sold my time to my employer and that time was to be spent fulfilling my job responsibilities and not my own interest. I always understood after working hours is the appropriate time for my personal interests. I guess the coach is in a hard spot if his players are asking him to participate in the political statement, but he’s a well paid grown man and dealing with young men is what he signed up to do.
 
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#87
#87
Volsfan895 said:
This thread has made it easier to know who to put on my ignore list. The players and Shay did the right thing. I’m very disappointed by ETSU.
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Put me on ignore then. Sports should be non-political and I’m in the group who believe you always honor the flag and stand at attention for the National Anthem.
 
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#88
#88
East Tennessee Vol said:
Was it this year the Lady Vols also took a knee before a game? I don't remember hearing much about any reaction, one way or the other.
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It’s because they lost after they did it lol. They got their karma. I don’t really care either way. Stand, kneel, lay down it really doesn’t matter, but it is funny to see a bunch of people in here that would normally tell you freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences, get mad because there were consequences for them using their freedom of speech. Consistency and thought aren’t American’s strong suit these days, particularly on the left side.
 
#89
#89
VolsSportsFan said:
This is ridiculous; by enacting a right you have as American is putting a cause "before" the United States?
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Yeah the irony is interesting huh. People seem to forget the foundational principle. Allowing people to hold and express a despicable opinion that you disagree with IS what our country stands for.
 
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#90
#90
GroverCleveland said:
Interesting thread and takes on both sides. But here's one no one seems to think about with all the hoopla.

Basketball is an entertainment business. And the players/coaches at ETSU failed Marketing 101: know your market environment.

No one has to watch basketball. And if some aspects of it (kneeling/standing/spitting on the sidewalk/etc) are disagreeable to the target customer base, well there are market consequences.

It has been mentioned the kids are mostly black and we know the chances of a professional BB career are virtually nil. The chances of getting a degree, establishing a solid network of relationships and ensuring future life success are substantially higher.

I am not saying they should/should not kneel or bow or curtsy before, during or after a game. But I am saying the players and coaches need to be aware of their customer base and that they are, indeed, in a business.
Click to expand...
This is logic that gets disrupted by emotions.
 
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#91
#91
Tennessee is such a sad state now. When you have more "respect" for a flag, than your fellow man...im just speechless. Good for the players, good for the coach, and just poor taste from the university, legislators, and "fans."
 
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#92
#92
therickbol said:
This is logic that gets disrupted by emotions.
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You also have to live with yourself at the end of the day, and what is mentioned is a yes sir yes ma'am mentality that I'm sure a certain ethnic group has been trying to move past for centuries.
 
#93
#93
GoVols15 said:
If true, good for whoever forced him out! The flag, to a lot of Americans, represents freedom and the men and women who fought and continue to fight and die for the freedoms we enjoy. People have a right to protest but they should choose another venue to express their opinion whether I agree or disagree.

Players, coaches, and educational leaders need to learn RESPECT for opposing views. During a sporting event, this is a
time for competition that fans pay money to see. I do NOT CARE what their political opinions are right, left or in the middle.

Glad to see consequences to those who cannot show basic RESPECT to others!!
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Why should they? Because you don't like it. Good lord, bless your heart.
 
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#94
#94
“I care about freedom, which is why the government should punish you for not participating in forced rituals.”

Just stop playing the national anthem before sporting events. I don’t play it before I give a lecture to my students.
 
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#96
#96
walkenvol said:
I don’t have a strong opinion on this topic personally. I think I understand why many folks, especially those who served in the military are emotionally opposed to any perceived disrespect to our country. I also think I understand why many minorities feel the system is biased against them and their desire to bring attention to that.

What I struggle to understand is why the coach would feel that during his working hours he was free to participate in political activities. I’ve always felt that during working hours I’ve sold my time to my employer and that time was to be spent fulfilling my job responsibilities and not my own interest. I always understood after working hours is the appropriate time for my personal interests. I guess the coach is in a hard spot if his players are asking him to participate in the political statement, but he’s a well paid grown man and dealing with young men is what he signed up to do.
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I agree with most of this, but I think this incident has less to do with Shay's "personal interests" and more to do with his values and moral fiber. If asked to compromise those things within the scope of your job, it's probably best to move on.
 
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#97
#97
cncchris33 said:
I agree with most of this, but I think this incident has less to do with Shay's "personal interests" and more to do with his values and moral fiber. If asked to compromise those things within the scope of your job, it's probably best to move on.
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I would also say promoting an environment that his players feel safe in is part of the job as well, so the OP is still off.
 
#98
#98
cncchris33 said:
I agree with most of this, but I think this incident has less to do with Shay's "personal interests" and more to do with his values and moral fiber. If asked to compromise those things within the scope of your job, it's probably best to move on.
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I think people are jumping to conclusions without knowing all the facts.
 
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#99
#99
BreatheUT said:
We both know it's not the same.
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The hell it isn't. That's your own bias blinding you because you see the stand side as the "righteous" side and you agree with it, therefore you see no issue with people putting pressure on teams to comply with standing during the anthem. And it's quite disingenious to push this "non political" stance when that stance, i.e. standing, just happens to be the exact same result as the side that demands people stand during the anthem or else. That's bulls*** and you know it.
 
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#100
#100
walkenvol said:
I don’t have a strong opinion on this topic personally. I think I understand why many folks, especially those who served in the military are emotionally opposed to any perceived disrespect to our country. I also think I understand why many minorities feel the system is biased against them and their desire to bring attention to that.

What I struggle to understand is why the coach would feel that during his working hours he was free to participate in political activities. I’ve always felt that during working hours I’ve sold my time to my employer and that time was to be spent fulfilling my job responsibilities and not my own interest. I always understood after working hours is the appropriate time for my personal interests. I guess the coach is in a hard spot if his players are asking him to participate in the political statement, but he’s a well paid grown man and dealing with young men is what he signed up to do.
Click to expand...

I know personal experience doesn't equal fact but I'll say the people I know that are the most vocal and "upset" about this didn't serve in the military at all. The people I know that did generally are mostly indifferent, with the strongest reactions being they don't particularly like it but it doesn't really "offend" them. And some even say they wish people would stop trying to speak for them.
 
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