Jeff Walz not coming

#101
#101
DeerPark12 said:
Let's put it like this. If you're a coach like, let's say Matthew Mitchell, and you make $1.3 million a year at a major power 5 school with all the resources needed to compete for titles. What would you do?

Option A: Stay at Kentucky, make $1.3 million. In an above-average year, you finish 3rd in the conference, make the Sweet 16, and get a contract extension.

Option B: Go to Tennessee for $1.5 million. Go to the Elite 8 twice, the Sweet 16 once and you're on the hot seat because fans will compare your average year only to Pat's best. You don't make the Final Four in a four year stretch and people call for your job. IF you get an extension, people complain because you haven't done enough to deserve one.

Which option are you going to pick? 9 out of 10 coaches are going to pick A. This isn't the only program in America that will pay well and give a coach everything he or she needs to thrive anymore. Better hope #10 ends up being a winner.
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Option B is BS and a total false choice. We all know full well Holly was fired because of her last four years, not her first three in which the accomplishments listed in Option B occurred. We were there and there's also alot of live video available, so we know crazed fans didn't just one day rise in irrational rebellion against a high achieving coach.

Since you seem to need a recap, after having some success early, arguably because she still had Pat's players, Holly took a nosedive, deepening at an alarming rate each successive year. Not just losing games in previously unheard of ways to unheard of opponents, but clearly having lost the lockerroom as well. Program shrouded in disjointed unhappiness and lack of improvement.

I'm pretty sure no potential hire who's been awake, alert, and paying attention recently is quaking in their boots over the fans "mistreatment" of poor Holly Warlick. Can't see us quite having the power or influence for that.
 
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#102
#102
glv98 said:
Option B is BS and a total false choice. We all know full well Holly was fired because of her last four years, not her first three in which the accomplishments listed in Option B occurred. We were there and there's also alot of live video available, so we know crazed fans didn't just one day rise in irrational rebellion against a high achieving coach.

Since you seem to need a recap, after having some success early, arguably because she still had Pat's players, Holly took a nosedive, deepening at an alarming rate each successive year. Not just losing games in previously unheard of ways to unheard of opponents, but clearly having lost the lockerroom as well. Program shrouded in disjointed unhappiness and lack of improvement.

I'm pretty sure no potential hire who's been awake, alert, and paying attention recently is quaking in their boots over the fans "mistreatment" of poor Holly Warlick. Can't see us quite having the power or influence for that.
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But that's exactly how fans reacted in those first three years anyway. Not making the Final Four was a failure. And with the talent, you could argue that was true.

But this isn't about Holly, she's gone and no one could make a rational argument for her coming back after this year.

Any coach that doesn't reach that FF standard is going to be treated that way here. It happened the same way at North Carolina in the decade after Dean Smith. It happened at Alabama after the Bear AND after Stallings. It happened at Kentucky after Pitino.

My point is and was, Pat's accomplishments came in a time where all things weren't equal in WBB. No school supported its program like Tennessee did. She was a hell of a coach, but she also had an advantage that doesn't exist anymore.

If you can make the same money in a job where you have little pressure and get credit when you have success that you can in a pressure cooker where only the best of results are even tolerated, which one would you pick?
 
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#103
#103
DeerPark12 said:
Any coach that doesn't reach that FF standard is going to be treated that way here. It happened the same way at North Carolina in the decade after Dean Smith. It happened at Alabama after the Bear AND after Stallings. It happened at Kentucky after Pitino.
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I just don't believe most fans demand FF every year and will be after the coach's arse if it doesn't happen. Of course there's keyboard warriors who live for that sh*t but I don't think it amounts to anything any busy coach would worry about. Especially after the disastrous last few years, I think most of us would be happy with a competitive, fundamentally sound, improving team that's fun to watch. The rest will take care of itself.

Give us some credit, we know the Pat story is unique to its time and setting and we never expected it to be repeated. The old go-to sports cliche of the impossibility of following a legend has been bandied about til we could scream. We get it. No potential coach needs to be deterred by scary VolNation blabbermouths.

There will definitely be pressure and expectations of at least a start toward rebuild for the next coach. Hopefully they come because they see it as a great career opportunity, in spite of the inevitable challenges.
 
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#104
#104
glv98 said:
I just don't believe most fans demand FF every year and will be after the coach's arse if it doesn't happen. Of course there's keyboard warriors who live for that sh*t but I don't think it amounts to anything any busy coach would worry about. Especially after the disastrous last few years, I think most of us would be happy with a competitive, fundamentally sound, improving team that's fun to watch. The rest will take care of itself.

Give us some credit, we know the Pat story is unique to its time and setting and we never expected it to be repeated. The old go-to sports cliche of the impossibility of following a legend has been bandied about til we could scream. We get it. No potential coach needs to be deterred by scary VolNation blabbermouths.

There will definitely be pressure and expectations of at least a start toward rebuild for the next coach. Hopefully they come because they see it as a great career opportunity, in spite of the inevitable challenges.
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Hopefully you’re right about fans showing some patience with the new Coach, but I read one post that said, “there should be no honeymoon, instant results” from the new Coach, because the team talent is so good. At least Pruitt is enjoying a honeymoon because of the talent problems. Then there are those who threatened to riot if we got a Coach they didn’t want. We also have fans who tell the players that are on the team now, that it’s in their best interest to leave, and those that try to discourage the new recruits from coming. Sometimes I wonder if they’re TN fans or not, but they always say they care about the Program or even the players so much, that they must say these things. Oh well, I hope we give the new Coach much support. Now, I’ve vented, after all this is the place for it, right?
 
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#105
#105
DeerPark12 said:
But that's exactly how fans reacted in those first three years anyway. Not making the Final Four was a failure. And with the talent, you could argue that was true.

But this isn't about Holly, she's gone and no one could make a rational argument for her coming back after this year.

Any coach that doesn't reach that FF standard is going to be treated that way here. It happened the same way at North Carolina in the decade after Dean Smith. It happened at Alabama after the Bear AND after Stallings. It happened at Kentucky after Pitino.

My point is and was, Pat's accomplishments came in a time where all things weren't equal in WBB. No school supported its program like Tennessee did. She was a hell of a coach, but she also had an advantage that doesn't exist anymore.

If you can make the same money in a job where you have little pressure and get credit when you have success that you can in a pressure cooker where only the best of results are even tolerated, which one would you pick?
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I love those examples. Bama wandered through the wilderness for years, had a little success with Stallings. KY the same. NC the same. What did they do to turn it back around? They went and spent a ton of money on proven commodities. After rolling the dice on experiments, they finally realized it wasn't working. All those programs had a similar mindset that was basically "Anyone with a pulse can win here because we are Alabama, we are Kentucky, we are North Carolina. "

Question is: How many coaches are the lady Vols going to go through before we realize that a proven coach, a proven winner at the highest level, is ultimately going to be the one that brings the lady Vols back? Have we learned anything from our football hires?
 
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#106
#106
InVOLuntary said:
I love those examples. Bama wandered through the wilderness for years, had a little success with Stallings. KY the same. NC the same. What did they do to turn it back around? They went and spent a ton of money on proven commodities. After rolling the dice on experiments, they finally realized it wasn't working. All those programs had a similar mindset that was basically "Anyone with a pulse can win here because we are Alabama, we are Kentucky, we are North Carolina. "

Question is: How many coaches are the lady Vols going to go through before we realize that a proven coach, a proven winner at the highest level, is ultimately going to be the one that brings the lady Vols back? Have we learned anything from our football hires?
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Well someone that makes sense. Prepare to get blasted. Its the world we live in.
 
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#107
#107
InVOLuntary said:
I love those examples. Bama wandered through the wilderness for years, had a little success with Stallings. KY the same. NC the same. What did they do to turn it back around? They went and spent a ton of money on proven commodities. After rolling the dice on experiments, they finally realized it wasn't working. All those programs had a similar mindset that was basically "Anyone with a pulse can win here because we are Alabama, we are Kentucky, we are North Carolina. "

Question is: How many coaches are the lady Vols going to go through before we realize that a proven coach, a proven winner at the highest level, is ultimately going to be the one that brings the lady Vols back? Have we learned anything from our football hires?
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AMEN!! Have we learned, indeed? I hope so, but I have this sinking-sick feeling that we have not. Where are the assurances that we will hire a coach with the experience and proven record at the highest level to guide us back to the top??? Have I missed this? Kellie J Harper does not meet this standard.
 
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#109
#109
Momto2 said:
AMEN!! Have we learned, indeed? I hope so, but I have this sinking-sick feeling that we have not. Where are the assurances that we will hire a coach with the experience and proven record at the highest level to guide us back to the top??? Have I missed this? Kellie J Harper does not meet this standard.
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Please go to the Raoul tweets thread on page 5, and read about her. She has overachieved since high school as a player and student. As a Coach, she has worked as an assistant for 3 well thought of Coaches. In 15 years as a Head Coach herself, she has taken 5 teams from 3 different schools to the NCAA Tournament, something only 11 Coaches have ever done. She has turned around Programs at 2 schools, and won Coach of the Year in two different Conferences. This year she took a team to the NCAA Tournament with one senior, and the rest mostly freshmen and sophomores and beat 2 ranked teams, and then played Stanford, ranked number 4 in the country, in the Sweet Sixteen, losing 55 to 46. All the teams they played were ranked, and had highly rated recruits, whereas her team had no highly rated recruits, and one team, Iowa State, was beaten on their home floor. The fact that she played on 3 National Championship teams at Tennessee is just icing.
 
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#110
#110
Volfaninfl2 said:
Please go to the Raoul tweets thread on page 5, and read about her. She has overachieved since high school as a player and student. As a Coach, she has worked as an assistant for 3 well thought of Coaches. In 15 years as a Head Coach herself, she has taken 5 teams from 3 different schools to the NCAA Tournament, something only 11 Coaches have ever done. She has turned around Programs at 2 schools, and won Coach of the Year in two different Conferences. This year she took a team to the NCAA Tournament with one senior, and the rest mostly freshmen and sophomores and beat 2 ranked teams, and then played Stanford, ranked number 4 in the country, in the Sweet Sixteen, losing 55 to 46. All the teams they played were ranked, and had highly rated recruits, whereas her team had no highly rated recruits, and one team, Iowa State, was beaten on their home floor. The fact that she played on 3 National Championship teams at Tennessee is just icing.[/QUOTE

What about her record at NCState. How can you gloss over her failure there? She did not have a winning record there in the competition of the ACC. She may be a good coach, but she doesn’t yet qualify as a proven coach at the highest level.
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#113
#113
What 'proven winner' do you speak of? If it's the usual crowd (Walz, Moore, etc.) they've already said they're not leaving their current schools.

Paying a million plus dollars a year doesn't guarantee results at Tennessee. Look at what happened when Gale Goestenkors moved from Duke to Texas. A 'proven winner' turned into a failure.

Name another WBB coach that moved from one P5 school to another that was successful.

OldNSlow said:
Well someone that makes sense. Prepare to get blasted. Its the world we live in.
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#115
#115
EarlVolFan said:
What 'proven winner' do you speak of? If it's the usual crowd (Walz, Moore, etc.) they've already said they're not leaving their current schools.

Paying a million plus dollars a year doesn't guarantee results at Tennessee. Look at what happened when Gale Goestenkors moved from Duke to Texas. A 'proven winner' turned into a failure.

Name another WBB coach that moved from one P5 school to another that was successful.
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Not true. Half truth.
 
#117
#117
YankeeVol said:
I highly doubt it. Well probably a former LV so the majority will be happy. Doesn't mean it makes sense.
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The majority wont be happy with losing and first round exits or NIT. We were handed something we never deserved this year with a NCAA invite. I know its hard for fans to realize how far we have fell. Now if Westbrook becomes a Husky.......
 
#118
#118
OldNSlow said:
The majority wont be happy with losing and first round exits or NIT. We were handed something we never deserved this year with a NCAA invite. I know its hard for fans to realize how far we have fell. Now if Westbrook becomes a Husky.......
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It was definitely a sympathy selection
 
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#119
#119
OldNSlow said:
Not true. Half truth.
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Where is the half truth? The poster stated has been stated about Walz and Moore and Gail did go from success then not to much at Texas?

Plus a million dollar coach doesn’t guarantee you success... I think it brings you some credibility but before Pat there weren’t any million dollar coaches and Pat has been gone for a couple of years now and there are still only a few so coaches making millions aren’t a dime a dozen just yet in the women’s game. Plus Matthew Mitchell has had some extremely mixed results and hasn’t really come close lately to sniffing a conference title.
 
#120
#120
VA_VOLFAN said:
Where is the half truth? The poster stated has been stated about Walz and Moore and Gail did go from success then not to much at Texas?

Plus a million dollar coach doesn’t guarantee you success... I think it brings you some credibility but before Pat there weren’t any million dollar coaches and Pat has been gone for a couple of years now and there are still only a few so coaches making millions aren’t a dime a dozen just yet in the women’s game. Plus Matthew Mitchell has had some extremely mixed results and hasn’t really come close lately to sniffing a conference title.
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The half truths are there, one is a blatant lie. Mitchell is a average coach at best.
 
#122
#122
OldNSlow said:
The half truths are there, one is a blatant lie. Mitchell is a average coach at best.
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Which is which I am not arguing I’m trying to see what is what .... did moore and Walz not say they were staying or did Gail G not have as much success at Texas ?

I just want a new coach and soon 😩
 
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