Joe being Joe? China's One-child Policy okay

#51
#51
jvol1 said:
It's important to remember that the economic limitations facing China are different than those facing the US. The policy was implemented more as practical matter of not being able to feed all of those mouths. If the US only produced enough food to feed 100 million people a year, would this kind of policy be more or less acceptable here?

No. I cannot condone this as a function of government.

And, of course, there's the flipside issue of China's treatment of its prison inmates. Should they be allowed to force the sale of the organ's of their prisoners? I would guess many conservatives would be somewhat okay with that?
Click to expand...

Why would you link the sale of prisoner organs to conservatives? Once again, I would never condone that as a power the government has.
 
#52
#52
VOLatile said:
The US is a population of about 300 million, not billion. So, it's not a worry here, yet. But, if it were the case, I would support limiting family size but absolutely would oppose any sort of forced abortion or adoption. I support a woman's right to choose, and if the government decides to force an abortion, then her choice just flew out the window.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

Someone else asked it but how do you propose the government limiting the size of families? How does that square with being prochoice? Presumably prochoice means a woman can decide to have or not have a baby.
 
#53
#53
The United States will never adopt such a policy and so therefore efforts to draw any parallels are ridiculous.
 
#54
#54
lawgator1 said:
The United States will never adopt such a policy and so therefore efforts to draw any parallels are ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Who is drawing parallels? A couple posters say they agree with the concept of government-based population limitation though disagree with China's methods. We are trying to explore the underlying rationale for that position vs. one that does not support government-based population limitation.

If we want to look at the US, the Obama Admin claims to be firmly against all aspects of the idea yet the VP mistakenly said he understood why they do it and doesn't second guess their decision. Joe added to a long list of gaffes.
 
#55
#55
If we currently have tax incentives for having children, we could always reverse that. That's not a slam dunk like forced abortions, but it's still a policy.
 
#56
#56
Weezy said:
If we currently have tax incentives for having children, we could always reverse that. That's not a slam dunk like forced abortions, but it's still a policy.
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of the current tax incentives but they are not designed to encourage children - they simply have that effect. It is not a policy though.

I do not support of government policy to manage family size.
 
#57
#57
volinbham said:
Who is drawing parallels? A couple posters say they agree with the concept of government-based population limitation though disagree with China's methods. We are trying to explore the underlying rationale for that position vs. one that does not support government-based population limitation.

If we want to look at the US, the Obama Admin claims to be firmly against all aspects of the idea yet the VP mistakenly said he understood why they do it and doesn't second guess their decision. Joe added to a long list of gaffes.
Click to expand...


He's made quite a few gaffes, I agree, but this one seems like the right is really reaching on.
 
#58
#58
volinbham said:
I'm not a fan of the current tax incentives but they are not designed to encourage children - they simply have that effect. It is not a policy though.

I do not support of government policy to manage family size.
Click to expand...

plus one, insanity to give the govt that kind of power
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#59
#59
BeecherVol said:
I agree the US doesn't currently have this problem.

How would you enforce limiting family size?
Click to expand...

vols4sure said:
So how would propose limiting the family size? Fines? What about low income people who can't afford the fine or supporting the child. Do they still receive welfare even though they violated the law by having a child?

Or would you support sterilizing women?
Click to expand...

volinbham said:
Someone else asked it but how do you propose the government limiting the size of families? How does that square with being prochoice? Presumably prochoice means a woman can decide to have or not have a baby.
Click to expand...

An answer I do not have. I don't think fines would work because that would just end up hurting the child. Removing tax incentives wouldn't work because most people on welfare didn't get pregnant so that they could go on welfare, I bet most were accidents.

We could start by devoting more money to teaching about proper birth control (teaching abstinance has failed miserably) and preventing this from happening. There's no way to enforce it, though.
 
#60
#60
VOLatile said:
The US is a population of about 300 million, not billion. So, it's not a worry here, yet. But, if it were the case, I would support limiting family size but absolutely would oppose any sort of forced abortion or adoption. I support a woman's right to choose, and if the government decides to force an abortion, then her choice just flew out the window.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

How would they limit family size without infringing on a woman's right to choose?
 
#61
#61
VOLatile said:
An answer I do not have. I don't think fines would work because that would just end up hurting the child. Removing tax incentives wouldn't work because most people on welfare didn't get pregnant so that they could go on welfare, I bet most were accidents.

We could start by devoting more money to teaching about proper birth control (teaching abstinance has failed miserably) and preventing this from happening. There's no way to enforce it, though.
Click to expand...

Stand up answer bro.

When we found out we were have our first child my uncle drops the famous line, "You know what causes that, don't you?"
 
#62
#62
Weezy said:
If we currently have tax incentives for having children, we could always reverse that. That's not a slam dunk like forced abortions, but it's still a policy.
Click to expand...

Using taxes to encourage/discourage behavior government likes/dislikes is deeply flawed.
 
#65
#65
VOLatile said:
An answer I do not have. I don't think fines would work because that would just end up hurting the child. Removing tax incentives wouldn't work because most people on welfare didn't get pregnant so that they could go on welfare, I bet most were accidents.

We could start by devoting more money to teaching about proper birth control (teaching abstinance has failed miserably) and preventing this from happening. There's no way to enforce it, though.
Click to expand...

Feb. 2, 2011 -- The teenage birth rate declined in 2009 to the lowest level ever recorded in the past 70 years, the CDC says in a new report.
Click to expand...

Teen Birth Rate Is Declining

That's birth rates. Here are declining figures for teen pregnancy:

Teen pregnancy rate lowest in two decades – The Chart - CNN.com Blogs
 
#69
#69
volinbham said:
Why would you link the sale of prisoner organs to conservatives? Once again, I would never condone that as a power the government has.
Click to expand...

Well, the death penalty would seem to be a much more harsh punishment than organ donation, so it seems to fall into line with acceptable conservative dogma. Making assumptions always gets you into trouble however.

And on the other subject, if you hold that China genuinely faces constraints in its ability to support its population, but oppose any gov't interference, what alternatives do you propose? It seems like it could lead to a great deal of civil unrest if simply allowed to take its course.
 
#70
#70
jvol1 said:
Well, the death penalty would seem to be a much more harsh punishment than organ donation, so it seems to fall into line with acceptable conservative dogma. Making assumptions always gets you into trouble however.

And on the other subject, if you hold that China genuinely faces constraints in its ability to support its population, but oppose any gov't interference, what alternatives do you propose? It seems like it could lead to a great deal of civil unrest if simply allowed to take its course.
Click to expand...

take one from stalins playbook.............
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#71
#71
jvol1 said:
Well, the death penalty would seem to be a much more harsh punishment than organ donation, so it seems to fall into line with acceptable conservative dogma. Making assumptions always gets you into trouble however.

And on the other subject, if you hold that China genuinely faces constraints in its ability to support its population, but oppose any gov't interference, what alternatives do you propose? It seems like it could lead to a great deal of civil unrest if simply allowed to take its course.
Click to expand...

I don't have a great answer for the problem but hold deeply the value that giving the government the power to control the population is profoundly wrong.

Ultimately, I think the solution would amount to people suffering the consequences of bad decision making. Have a massive family you cannot afford and you will be creating pain/suffering for that family. Government entitlements (e.g. "free" healthcare, food, etc.) remove individual consequences and the result is you then have to do what China has done and forcibly constrain population growth.

Civil unrest is going to result one way or the other. I'd rather not walk down the path of government as the provider and taker.
 
#72
#72
volinbham said:
I don't have a great answer for the problem but hold deeply the value that giving the government the power to control the population is profoundly wrong.

Ultimately, I think the solution would amount to people suffering the consequences of bad decision making. Have a massive family you cannot afford and you will be creating pain/suffering for that family. Government entitlements (e.g. "free" healthcare, food, etc.) remove individual consequences and the result is you then have to do what China has done and forcibly constrain population growth.

Civil unrest is going to result one way or the other. I'd rather not walk down the path of government as the provider and taker.
Click to expand...

heck yeah plus one!
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#73
#73
Still talking about the notion of a US policy on population control itt, which just baffles me. Its not an issue.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top