John Bolton: Swamp Creature

#101
#101
1972 Grad said:
I wouldn't want to send troops into a needless war, but it's not my call. It all depends upon the definition of needless.

I was against going into Iraq at the time based on what limited information that I had seen. I had discussions with a friend about it back then. We decided that the Bush administration apparently knew something that we didn't. We were wrong.
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Bolton was one of the masterminds behind that fiasco. Now we are going to bring him back for Round 2?
 
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#104
#104
evillawyer said:
Bolton's own words:

He had supported the war but wrote in his Yale University 25th reunion book: "I confess I had no desire to die in a Southeast Asian rice paddy. I considered the war in Vietnam already lost."

So he joined the Maryland national guard to avoid getting drafted.
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So what?
 
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#105
#105
Originally Posted by evillawyer:
Bolton's own words:

He had supported the war but wrote in his Yale University 25th reunion book: "I confess I had no desire to die in a Southeast Asian rice paddy. I considered the war in Vietnam already lost."

So he joined the Maryland national guard to avoid getting drafted.
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So what?

^^^^^^^This!
 
#106
#106
ows_152184671217675.jpg
 
#107
#107
Orangedogsrule said:
You don't know what you're talking about. The conclusion you draw is pure d BS and you only make it out of ignorance and malice because you are politically posturing. You are a poser.

In October of 1972, I was one of the last Combat Medics between the DMZ south to DaNang. There were other medics in the north country, but they were either with the 95th Evac down at the airbase, a few left to fly Dustoff, etc. At that time there were very few ground pounders left.

There were to be no combat forces left in country within a matter of weeks.

..."U.S. military draft ends, Jan. 27, 1973. On the day in 1973, as the Vietnam War drew to a close, the Selective Service announced that there would be no further draft calls.Jan 27, 2012."...

..."March 29, 1973 - The last remaining American troops withdraw from Vietnam"...

I was there because I lost my college deferment because I had to drop out so I could work two jobs, summer and fall, for tuition to stay in school. This broke the "hours per year enrolled" rule to maintain the deferrment. Make NO mistake, if one had dreams of a college degree back then, they DID get a college deferrment if they qualified. Yes, there were even then those who volunteered, but the VOLAR (Volunteer Army) was not instituted until the draft was halted. Pay was penury. If you lost your deferrment many joined the branch of their choice. Mostly the Guard or Coast Guard, but many also chose Air Force and Navy. Towards the end very, very few would have opted Army or Marines for exactly the reasons Bolton gives. Every single platoon would have had many draftees who lost some kind of derfrrment or other.

We weren't trying to win, really. Nixon had Kissinger in the Paris Peace talks, they had already started the drawdown, and everyone knew it was a matter time. My division lost men to VC 122mm rockets we KNEW were being set up but could not get permission to engage.

Those coming home were met in airports, not by a grateful populace but by spitting protestors calling them murderers and baby killers. We all knew this was going to happen to us because those who preceeded us sent us letters from home. I don't know any soldier who served in Nam I have ever talked to while there or since coming home who begrudged college deferrments or joining the guard. Calling them, including Trump and Bolton, draft dodgers is malicious BS political posturing and should only make those who have understanding have even less regard for the posers position than before they made it.
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...and this story is precisely why you should resent people like Trump, Bush, and Bolton. They got to rich kid their way out of the war.
 
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#111
#111
Bjorn_Yesterday said:
...and this story is precisely why you should resent people like Trump, Bush, and Bolton. They got to rich kid their way out of the war.
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You have no understanding about this. None. Saying they did the "rich kid out of serving" in the Vietnam extended military engagement or "police action" shows that. Virtually EVERYONE who could get a deferment did. Millions. I did when I could. Some enlisted for Vietnam, but most soldiers did not. They were classified 1A and drafted.

Unless:

Draft Classifications during the Vietnam War

Draft Board Classifications
The following is a list of Selective Service classifications
that could be assigned by draft boards:

I-A
Available for military service

I-A-0
Conscientious objector available for noncombatant military service only

I-C
Member of the armed forces of the U.S., the Coast and Geodetic Survey, or the Public Health Service

I-D
Member of reserve component or student taking military training

I-H
Registrant not currently subject to processing for induction

I-0
Conscientious objector available for civilian work contributing to the maintenance of the national health, safety, or interest

I-S
Student deferred by statute (High School)

I-Y
Registrant available for military service, but qualified for military only in the event of war or national emergency

I-W
Conscientious objector performing civilian work
contributing to the maintenance of the national health, safety, or interest

II-A
Registrant deferred because of civilian occupation (except agriculture or activity in study)

II-C
Registrant deferred because of agricultural occupation

II-D
Registrant deferred because of study preparing for the ministry

II-S
Registrant deferred because of activity in study

III-A
Registrant with a child or children; registrant deferred by reason of extreme hardship to dependents

IV-A
Registrant who has completed service; sole surviving son

IV-B
Official deferred by law

IV-C
Alien

IV-D
Minister of religion or divinity student

IV-F
Registrant not qualified for any military service

IV-G
Registrant exempt from service during peace (surviving son or brother)

IV-W
Conscientious objector who has completed alternate service contributing to the maintenance of the national health, safety, or interest in lieu of induction into the Armed Forces of the United States

V-A
Registrant over the age of liability for military service

The last officially Declared War the US was in was WW2. Every one since, including Korea was an "extended military engagement".
But yeah, the popular term is war...See 1-Y.
 
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#112
#112
Rasputin_Vol said:
He's a lost cause... he is too wrapped up in his Republican good/Democrat bad mindset to not see what you're talking about.
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Nope. You're just ignorant of the way things were.

Very, very, very few cared about what you are trying to push.

Remember the tv program M.A.S.H.?
Ya'all are coming over rather like the Major Frank Burns...gung ho ........... and goofy. :crazy:
 
#113
#113
And the only reason you're pushing it is anti-conservative posturing. Like a little puppy what found a chew toy and growls and chews and shakes it until it loses balance and falls on its butt. Only to blame the toy so round two starts.
 
#114
#114
Rasputin_Vol said:
It matters if these same people are more than willing to send other 18 year olds off to a bogus war on the other side of the globe.
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No it doesnt. Wanna know why? Because they are going to do whatever they want and there isnt a damn thing anyone can do about it. The US has been fighting useless wars for decades. Thats not going to change. Our government is a steaming pile of human trash. Always has been and always will be. So no, in the end, it really doesnt matter.
 
#115
#115
BigOrangeTrain said:
No it doesnt. Wanna know why? Because they are going to do whatever they want and there isnt a damn thing anyone can do about it. The US has been fighting useless wars for decades. Thats not going to change. Our government is a steaming pile of human trash. Always has been and always will be. So no, in the end, it really doesnt matter.
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What does that have to do with Bolton as an individual being a hypocrite? I'm fully aware that there are plenty of war mongers in The Swamp. But I'm speaking specifically about Bolton and people like him that avoided combat when they were young that then turn around and send other teenagers overseas later on in life.

It really shouldn't be that hard to see the hypocrisy in that.
 
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#116
#116
Rasputin_Vol said:
What does that have to do with Bolton as an individual being a hypocrite? I'm fully aware that there are plenty of war mongers in The Swamp. But I'm speaking specifically about Bolton and people like him that avoided combat when they were young that then turn around and send other teenagers overseas later on in life.

It really shouldn't be that hard to see the hypocrisy in that.
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See also: Most politicians these days.
 
#117
#117
Saint Mattis meets with the "devil incarnate"

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-bGg9D5pxc[/youtube]
 
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#118
#118
I'm not sure i will ever understand the argument that it was okay that wealthy kids manufactured reasons to get deferments because other kids of limited means got deferments legitimately.

And even if that were so, there is something that will always be extremely wrong with Trump challenging the courage or service of someone like McCain.
 
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#119
#119
Rasputin_Vol said:
What does that have to do with Bolton as an individual being a hypocrite? I'm fully aware that there are plenty of war mongers in The Swamp. But I'm speaking specifically about Bolton and people like him that avoided combat when they were young that then turn around and send other teenagers overseas later on in life.

It really shouldn't be that hard to see the hypocrisy in that.
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Its not hard at all to spot the hypocrisy. My point is, who cares? We should come to expect this type of behavior from people in the government. They are scum. And there is nothing we can do about it.
 
#121
#121
lawgator1 said:
I'm not sure i will ever understand the argument that it was okay that wealthy kids manufactured reasons to get deferments because other kids of limited means got deferments legitimately.

And even if that were so, there is something that will always be extremely wrong with Trump challenging the courage or service of someone like McCain.
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Its very simple to understand. Money rules. The rich have always gotten what they want and always will. Thats life. Accept it and move on.

Trump isnt the only one who has questioned McCains "service."
 
#122
#122
Whether your on the left or right, we can all agree that we don't need this war monger advising Trump and that this is a terrible appointment.
 
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#124
#124
Bjorn_Yesterday said:
...and this story is precisely why you should resent people like Trump, Bush, and Bolton. They got to rich kid their way out of the war.
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Not necessarily true. Plenty kids from middle class families were able to avoid going to Nam. If you had good grades and didn't want to go, you had options.
 
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