John Brice - Rick Barnes Extended, $5.9 Million

#126
#126
BigOrangeMojo said:
In these situations, it's all about leverage. Due to his much lower salary and our limited baseball facilities, Vitello has all the leverage in the world. Barnes, due to his age and already large salary, does not nearly have the amount of leverage.

Both are very good coaches. They just have different amounts of leverage.
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Barnes’ leverage is that he can say he wants to retire. Also that a blue blood tried to hire him just a couple of years ago. No baseball blue blood wants to hire CTV.
 
#127
#127
Thunder Good-Oil said:
The 3rd SEC title in 40 years. In a conference that has 40% more members than during the 1st 7 championships. 3 of TN’s 23 NCAAT appearances. One of only 8 Sweet 16s.
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And…still previously accomplished by other coaches
 
#128
#128
TheMookieMonster said:
Extending Barnes is not even close to some of our past stupid football decisions, which I assume is what you are referring to. Pruitt and Butch did not deserve their extensions in hindsight, but let's not try and compare those decisions to anything close to Barnes. Not to mention Barnes has completely repaired the image of Tennessee Basketball, which goes a long way when our football program is a complete disaster.

Neither Pruitt nor Butch came close to sniffing an SEC East title, let alone a regular season conference championship like Barnes. Neither Pruitt nor Butch took their team to No. 1 overall for 5-weeks. Neither Pruitt nor Butch has an accomplishment similar to a Sweet-16 or a 30-win season. Our football decisions have been uniquely stupid for almost 15 years. Basketball is not even close.
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I was referring to the extensions of Fulmer and the automatic 8 win extension.......I just dont get rewarding mediocrity.
 
#129
#129
bleedingTNorange said:
I don’t think this was a leverage move from Barnes (if even true), when UCLA was calling yes, he had leverage…like I’ve said, I think this was White showing that he’s committed to Barnes and the basketball program.
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I think it's a mistake to extend just to extend. We saw it with Jeremy Pruitt. We saw it with Holly Warlick. I agree with what was needed after UCLA since Barnes had the leverage then, but I disagree with the most recent extension now unless there was some unforseen need to do so.
 
#130
#130
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Barnes’ leverage is that he can say he wants to retire. Also that a blue blood tried to hire him just a couple of years ago. No baseball blue blood wants to hire CTV.
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And Barnes used that leverage two years ago with UCLA (and I am 100% on board with what was needed then - Barnes had the leverage then and he absolutely used it.). No offense, I'm not offering $6MM a year to a guy that says he wants to retire, even if its a negotiating ploy. Ultimate sign that he's considering checking out.
 
#131
#131
Idk, zjc...I've stewed on it for quite a while since you've been saying this for a while....I'm just not convinced that you even agree with what you're saying. At the very least, I can't get you tell me what makes a top 10-15 team.
 
#132
#132
BigOrangeMojo said:
I think it's a mistake to extend just to extend. We saw it with Jeremy Pruitt. We saw it with Holly Warlick. I agree with what was needed after UCLA since Barnes had the leverage then, but I disagree with the most recent extension now unless there was some unforseen need to do so.
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It’s common place to extend your HC to make sure he has 4+ years left if he’s doing what you feel is a good job as the AD…it’s used as a recruiting tool/negative recruiting letting a coach run down. If he’s not meeting expectations that’s one thing, but if you’re satisfied with his performance then it’s very common to keep extending coaches.
 
#134
#134
Chris4Vols22 said:
Idk, zjc...I've stewed on it for quite a while since you've been saying this for a while....I'm just not convinced that you even agree with what you're saying. At the very least, I can't get you tell me what makes a top 10-15 team.
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What’s the timeline? This is what I would look for

Conference titles (tourney and regular)
Consistent NCAAT appearances
Sweet 16/Elite 8s/Final 4 appearances
25 win seasons
 
#135
#135
BigOrangeMojo said:
And Barnes used that leverage two years ago with UCLA (and I am 100% on board with what was needed then - Barnes had the leverage then and he absolutely used it.). No offense, I'm not offering $6MM a year to a guy that says he wants to retire, even if its a negotiating ploy. Ultimate sign that he's considering checking out.
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If you’re Barnes and White comes to you and says he's very happy with the job you’ve done and wants to show his support and offers an extension and $900k raise would you turn it down?
 
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#136
#136
bleedingTNorange said:
It’s common place to extend your HC to make sure he has 4+ years left if he’s doing what you feel is a good job as the AD…it’s used as a recruiting tool/negative recruiting letting a coach run down. If he’s not meeting expectations that’s one thing, but if you’re satisfied with his performance then it’s very common to keep extending coaches.
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True, however, it is not very common though to offer that amount of salary increases in an extension to a coach with limited leverage.
 
#137
#137
bleedingTNorange said:
If you’re Barnes and White comes to you and says he's very happy with the job you’ve done and wants to show his support and offers an extension and $900k raise would you turn it down?
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That wasn’t his argument tho. Nobody is blaming Barnes for taking the money. We are just wondering why White feels an extension is necessary when there appears to be no urgent reason to extend
 
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#138
#138
bleedingTNorange said:
If you’re Barnes and White comes to you and says he's very happy with the job you’ve done and wants to show his support and offers an extension and $900k raise would you turn it down?
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Oh trust me, I don't blame Barnes at all.

Just like I didn't blame Pruitt, Warlick, or Fulmer (with the automatic extension with 8 wins)
 
#139
#139
Chris4Vols22 said:
Idk, zjc...I've stewed on it for quite a while since you've been saying this for a while....I'm just not convinced that you even agree with what you're saying. At the very least, I can't get you tell me what makes a top 10-15 team.
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Imo it’s winning, you can’t overly weight to regular season or postseason alone, it’s a combo imo…for example a team with 1 NCAAT who makes a F4 isn’t a Top 15 program if their other 3 seasons are no NCAAT appearances.

Tennessee has 92 wins and 3 NCAAT appearances the last 4 seasons, there aren’t many teams matching that.
 
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#141
#141
bleedingTNorange said:
Like I said, I think it was about White and optics more than Barnes
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Any issue I have with the extension is with White. Personally, the amount of the extension when combined with Barnes' overall accomplishments and leverage seem rich to me; however, given the current status of the program and Barnes ability as a coach, I don't see a huge downside risk here.
 
#142
#142
zjcvols said:
That wasn’t his argument tho. Nobody is blaming Barnes for taking the money. We are just wondering why White feels an extension is necessary when there appears to be no urgent reason to extend
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As @JelloPuddinPup said, in short…it shows that White supports Barnes and is behind him as his guy, it shows a commitment to the basketball program from a national perspective that Tennessee and White see this as an elite basketball school, whether that’s Barnes or someone else, you hope that move pays off when the time comes. You also hope that if an opening comes like UCLA did that you aren’t trying then to keep him and that this pays off should someone come calling….which goes along with allowing White to also not worry about basketball or baseball for a long time and focus on getting football right, which alone is worth that extra $1m/year.
 
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#143
#143
zjcvols said:
What’s the timeline? This is what I would look for

Conference titles (tourney and regular)
Consistent NCAAT appearances
Sweet 16/Elite 8s/Final 4 appearances
25 win seasons
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Bro, that's what I'm asking YOU 🤣

The timeline would make a difference in who is and isn't in the top 15.
 
#147
#147
Nothing wrong with White being proactive. Especially when he did not hire Barnes.

The opportunity cost of the millions to be lost by resetting the program back to 17-14 and the middle of the SEC would be many multiples of $900,000/year.

My complaint is the entire NCAA coaching universe, not the marginally higher paycheck that a proven, future HoF coach is cashing. Half of the teams in the SEC will be paying north of $5mm before CRB hangs up his whistle. The market drives pay. TN couldn’t lure football coaches despite offering crazy money for any high profile winner to take the job.

People beyatched about Pat Summitt’s million dollar salary. The value of the prestige when a sitting POTUS hung a medal around her neck was immeasurable. She represented my university with great honor and Barnes is doing the same. He is winning at a historically high level at TN and his players are not thugs. In fact they are quite the opposite.
 
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#148
#148
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Nothing wrong with White being proactive. Especially when he did not hire Barnes.

The opportunity cost of the millions to be lost by resetting the program back to 17-14 and the middle of the SEC would be many multiples of $900,000/year.

My complaint is the entire NCAA coaching universe, not the marginally higher paycheck that a proven, future HoF coach is cashing. Half of the teams in the SEC will be paying north of $5mm before CRB hangs up his whistle. The market drives pay. TN couldn’t lure football coaches despite offering crazy money for any high profile winner to take the job.

People beyatched about Pat Summitt’s million dollar salary. The value of the prestige when a sitting POTUS hung a medal around her neck was immeasurable. She represented my university with great honor and Barnes is doing the same. He is winning at a historically high level at TN and his players are not thugs. In fact they are quite the opposite.
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Complaining about someone else’s salary has to be the most useless subject to talk about.

We literally us fans can’t do a damn thing about it.
 
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#149
#149
zjcvols said:
4-5 years is what I look at when evaluating a program.
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In that case, as others have also said, I personally think you have too much weight in the tournament. That's not to say that tournament success doesn't carry weight, but the whole argument just seems tailored to only look at one dimension of success.

Honestly, I think this is a good debate in that solid arguments for either side can be made. It'd be dumb to discount the recruiting and regular season success, and it would also be dumb to discount isolated tournament success. My argument is that the nature of the tournament being single elimination and the fact that the sport of basketball lends itself to more upsets than most other sports makes your assessment skewed at the very least.
 
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#150
#150
Is he paid too much? Probably

Is it nice to have stability, knowing we don't have to search for another coach every 3 years like the football team? Hell yes.

Recruiting is at an all time high. We are consistently ranked. We are making the tourney. Sure, we ain't going at far as we like in the Tourney, but really only 1 team walks away happy
 
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