John Brice - Rick Barnes Extended, $5.9 Million

#76
#76
zjcvols said:
Because one is a 42 year old who did something that hasn’t happened in 16 years, has improved every year and made the CWS in his fourth year while the other is a 67 year old who has made one S16 in his last 12 years of coaching
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Barnes is doing things that have never been done before at TN. Back-to-back SECT finals and bringing in highly ranked recruits at an unprecedented level. He’s also getting TN into the NCAAT at a historically high rate.
 
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#77
#77
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Barnes is doing things that have never been done before at TN. Back-to-back SECT finals and bringing in highly ranked recruits at an unprecedented level. He’s also getting TN into the NCAAT at a historically high rate.
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That is simply factually incorrect. Pearl and Green both have accomplished as much or more than Barnes’ tenure at UT.
 
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#78
#78
Much like Pruitt last year, I don't see where Barnes has the leverage in this situation. How many schools would have paid Barnes $6MM a year?
 
#79
#79
Our fans will bitch about anything and everything lol... If an AD doesn't pay a coach well they'll bitch and moan about that... if he gets paid they'll bitch and moan about that... name me a better coach we could realistically get here at UT than Coach Barnes? He's completely elevated our program to a level it's not been in my life time? Not quite the tournament success Pearl had, but also Rick didn't inherit Lofton and Watson so he had a head start!

Enjoy CRB while we have him because who knows when we'll have a HoF coach who has 700+ wins under his belt again. If he stays another 5 years there's a good chance that he'll be in the top 10 winningest coaches of all time.
 
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#82
#82
BigOrangeMojo said:
Much like Pruitt last year, I don't see where Barnes has the leverage in this situation. How many schools would have paid Barnes $6MM a year?
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Remember when Pruitt got a $6M increase in his buyout and nobody thought that was a big deal? That turned out to be a pretty big deal.
 
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#83
#83
I think the turnaround in culture and the internal expectations of excellence he's added to UT will set the stage for the next hire is well worth the money we're paying him. As long as we don't screw it up when he retires, UT should be a factor moving forward for years post-Barnes. He's rebuild our foundation and brand in the college basketball world and it's hard to put a financial value on that beyond what his salary reflects.

From a pure results standpoint, no his salary is not justified (and I'm a HUGE Barnes supporter/fan) but from the other factors, at least the ones that the AD and program sees, I think it's obvious they see the value. We may not win a NC with Barnes, and I hate to admit that, but he's put us in position that has improved facilities, brought in $ and investments into the program, showed it's possible with our resources and culture to recruit at a high level at UT and created stability that I don't think we've truly had in several decades.

I do hope he wins a NC here, but I'm fine with paying him the $ that shows respect to what he's developed/built here AND also sends a message to the next Head Coach at the University of Tennessee that we're serious about basketball, to come here and win.
 
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#84
#84
VolFreakJosh said:
This has to be the worst comparison ever
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Resume wise, obviously. But from a leverage position, I don't see where Barnes has any leverage. Here are the leverage options:

1. Take a NBA job. If Barnes wants a NBA challenge, the $1M per year isn't going to stop that
2. Take another NCAA job. Again, how many better jobs that pay this much are coming open? Maybe Kansas, maybe UK. And we aren't winning a bidding war there.


And last year, you weren't against the Pruitt extension.
 
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#85
#85
zjcvols said:
Remember when Pruitt got a $6M increase in his buyout and nobody thought that was a big deal? That turned out to be a pretty big deal.
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Except that I said it was stupid and everyone on here called me every name in the book, including some of those disagreeing with me today.
 
#86
#86
JelloPuddinPup said:
I think the turnaround in culture and the internal expectations of excellence he's added to UT will set the stage for the next hire is well worth the money we're paying him. As long as we don't screw it up when he retires, UT should be a factor moving forward for years post-Barnes. He's rebuild our foundation and brand in the college basketball world and it's hard to put a financial value on that beyond what his salary reflects.

From a pure results standpoint, no his salary is not justified (and I'm a HUGE Barnes supporter/fan) but from the other factors, at least the ones that the AD and program sees, I think it's obvious they see the value. We may not win a NC with Barnes, and I hate to admit that, but he's put us in position that has improved facilities, brought in $ and investments into the program, showed it's possible with our resources and culture to recruit at a high level at UT and created stability that I don't think we've truly had in several decades.

I do hope he wins a NC here, but I'm fine with paying him the $ that shows respect to what he's developed/built here AND also sends a message to the next Head Coach at the University of Tennessee that we're serious about basketball, to come here and win.
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I respect this opinion even if I disagree. This is way more logical than “well, well he’s earned it because my expectations are way too low”
 
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#87
#87
Stoked said:
Please do not say Pruitt and Barnes in the same sentence again that's a disgrace to Barnes.
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It's all about leverage with extensions. Tony Vitello has tons of leverage.

On no planet was I comparing the resumes of Barnes and Pruitt. I was comparing the amount of leverage that they had.
 
#89
#89
zjcvols said:
That is simply factually incorrect. Pearl and Green both have accomplished as much or more than Barnes’ tenure at UT.
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TN has historically been invited to the NCAAT about 25% of the time. It is also 100% correct that no other modern era TN BB coach has been to back-to-back SECT finals and recruiting has never been better other than possibly when Bernard was signed to be a Vol.

TN went to 11 of 18 NCAATs immediately before CRB was hired. 61.1%. Barnes has been to 60% and that rate goes to 67% with a 2022 invitation.
 
#90
#90
Thunder Good-Oil said:
TN has historically been invited to the NCAAT about 25% of the time. It is also 100% correct that no other modern era TN BB coach has been to back-to-back SECT finals and recruiting has never been better other than possibly when Bernard was signed to be a Vol.

TN went to 11 of 18 NCAATs immediately before CRB was hired. 61.1%. Barnes has been to 60% and that rate goes to 67% with a 2022 invitation.
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Making back to back SECT Finals isn’t an accomplishment. No matter how many times you want it to be. Nobody cares about the SECT runner up.
 
#91
#91
zjcvols said:
Virgins, Baylor, Texas Tech are three that immediately spring to mind and they aren’t blue bloods. There’s more im sure
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You have one good example there in Virginia. Given your criticism of Barnes's salary vs results, I'm somewhat surprised you're including Baylor; if you take away their NC, their results aren't exactly top 10-15. That effect is even moreso with Tech; they really haven't done anything notable outside their F4 season.

In the time that Barnes has been at UT, neither Scott nor Beard have clearly outperformed Barnes outside of their lone deep tournament runs. That's not to say that those runs don't carry some serious weight, but I am saying that their overall performance is not different from UT's otherwise. Is that difference enough to put them in top 10-15 and not UT? I don't know, I still don't know what kind of sample size you're referring to...
 
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#92
#92
BigOrangeMojo said:
Resume wise, obviously. But from a leverage position, I don't see where Barnes has any leverage. Here are the leverage options:

1. Take a NBA job. If Barnes wants a NBA challenge, the $1M per year isn't going to stop that
2. Take another NCAA job. Again, how many better jobs that pay this much are coming open? Maybe Kansas, maybe UK. And we aren't winning a bidding war there.


And last year, you weren't against the Pruitt extension.
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Because the state of the football program is drastically worse than the basketball program.

Pruitt beat one of the best UK teams and beat Auburn on the road.

Not saying I liked the extension but I could understand why Fulmer did what he did at the time.

Pruitt’s last year is when he went full blown stupid in his decisions to keep playing JG and letting his own ego take over games.

Rick Barnes has been keeping us Nationally relevant and getting us to the tournament which is why he’s getting raises.

It’s really not the same thing.
 
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#93
#93
zjcvols said:
Let’s take out out the other factors of what a contract extension brings: stability, National perception, whose money it is etc etc…the common things that get brought when arguing for or against Barnes’ salary…let’s ask one simple question…

Does the results of the last two years really constitute a 15% pay raise?
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If the AD/boosters feel he deserves it then obviously so, pretty clear answer there…it’s not your money or your question to answer. You can’t try to ask a question and eliminate factors that go into answering it.
 
#95
#95
zjcvols said:
There can be a number of factors, but if we give Barnes a pass for the first two years here is the resume

1x co regular season conference title
0 conference tournament titles
1x sweet sixteen
1x 30 win season
3/4 NCAA tourney berths* (I know 2020 but we wouldn’t have made it)

Is that top 10-15 over the last four years…and over the last six? I don’t believe so
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Name 15 teams with a better 4 year run
 
#96
#96
Chris4Vols22 said:
You have one good example there in Virginia. Given your criticism of Barnes's salary vs results, I'm somewhat surprised you're including Baylor; if you take away their NC, their results aren't exactly top 10-15. That effect is even moreso with Tech; they really haven't done anything notable outside their F4 season.

In the time that Barnes has been at UT, neither Scott nor Beard have clearly outperformed Barnes outside of their lone deep tournament runs. That's not to say that those runs don't carry some serious weight, but I am saying that their overall performance is not different from UT's otherwise. Is that difference enough to put them in top 10-15 and not UT? I don't know, I still don't know what kind of sample size you're referring to...
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Well if you take out that very big caveat that’s a very significant part of being a power 6 conference team lol. I value tournament success very highly.
 
#97
#97
VolFreakJosh said:
Because the state of the football program is drastically worse than the basketball program.

Pruitt beat one of the best UK teams and beat Auburn on the road.

Not saying I liked the extension but I could understand why Fulmer did what he did at the time.

Pruitt’s last year is when he went full blown stupid in his decisions to keep playing JG and letting his own ego take over games.

Rick Barnes has been keeping us Nationally relevant and getting us to the tournament which is why he’s getting raises.

It’s really not the same thing.
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Pruitt had absolutely no leverage last year. He was a toxic coach that no one wanted. Literally, no one. He was coming off a season where he was embarrased at home by GA State. There was no reasonable landing spot for him to negotiate more money out of UT. I've got an avatar of a slide hanging out an elephant's ass and my limited brainpower saw that one coming.

At least with Rick Barnes, he is a very good coach and the downside risk is nowhere near what it was with Pruitt.
 
#99
#99
zjcvols said:
Well it’s not unimportant either lol. It’s a significant factor.
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I didn’t say it’s unimportant…but much the same way you bash South Carolina and Frank Martin who made a F4, that doesn’t mean they’re a Top 5 program…it works both ways.

Not surprising but you failed to answer my question.
 
#100
#100
Tennessee doing Tennessee things.....giving underperforming coaches more money.

Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Barnes and all future coaches should earn their raises and extensions with performance of their teams. The past 2 seasons havent been that great for Barnes IMO and certainly not worthy of a increase and extension.
 
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