July Jobs Report

#26
#26
LG, the voice of the small business owner.


If people were calling my office and asking us to handle more cases than we can manage ourselves, I'd hire more associate attorneys to pick all that up for me.

If people were buying cars and clothes and washing machines, businesses would need salespeople, delivery drivers, service teams, computer assistance, payment processing, materials, and shipping.

Increase demand is the answer. And the need is there -- people just do not have the money.
 
#27
#27
As small business person I complain all the time about the red tape associated with everything we do. Its mind numbing and absorbs countless hours of my time every year.

And if that all went away tomorrow I wouldn't hire anyone new because I don't need them. There's no demand.

Supply side approach will not work in this economy. Priming the demand pump via the government? Meh, I share doubts that will work, as well. I think the reverse of the Romney plan might work.

Instead of giving those making over $3 million a year a $250,000 a year tax cut, and increasing taxes on 125 middle class families by $2,000 a year to pay for that, let's increase taxes on the guy making over $3 million by $250,000 and give 125 families a $2,000 tax break.

They will spend it. Create demand and jobs.

wonder how one creates demand for legal services?
 
#28
#28
If people were calling my office and asking us to handle more cases than we can manage ourselves, I'd hire more associate attorneys to pick all that up for me.

If people were buying cars and clothes and washing machines, businesses would need salespeople, delivery drivers, service teams, computer assistance, payment processing, materials, and shipping.

Increase demand is the answer. And the need is there -- people just do not have the money.

How about you either differentiate your services, be better at what you do or avoid saturated markets?

See, NCR had a problem similar to yours.
 
#29
#29
If people were calling my office and asking us to handle more cases than we can manage ourselves, I'd hire more associate attorneys to pick all that up for me.

If people were buying cars and clothes and washing machines, businesses would need salespeople, delivery drivers, service teams, computer assistance, payment processing, materials, and shipping.

Increase demand is the answer. And the need is there -- people just do not have the money.

I have to agree. This is just simple common sense.
 
#30
#30
How about you either differentiate your services, be better at what you do or avoid saturated markets?

See, NCR had a problem similar to yours.


Going into non-saturated markets, or doing things more efficiently, doesn't mean squat if no one in the other markets is buying anything because they don't have the money to do so.

Middle class consumption is the economic engine of this country. As long as the middle class struggles to make basic ends meet, and have no cash for other goods and services, the economy is destined to languish.
 
#31
#31
I'm no historian but look around. Why would production of more goods or provision of more services that no one is buying now cause the economy to improve? "If you build it, they will come" is a line form a movie. It isn't true in real life.

How does one generate increased demand?

This is not a new problem. Every recession sees decreased demand and millions of people always wonder how to get out of it without this magical upshift in demand. Amazingly enough, we've always gotten out of it and it hasn't been by simply pissing away money at some faux demand. You have to create jobs to generate demand and you have to create an environment in which creating jobs makes sense.

We have the largest pile of money in the history of our country parked on the sideline waiting to be invested in startups and growing companies. Wonder why the Bains of the world won't pull the trigger on anything?
 
#32
#32
Going into non-saturated markets, or doing things more efficiently, doesn't mean squat if no one in the other markets is buying anything because they don't have the money to do so.

Middle class consumption is the economic engine of this country. As long as the middle class struggles to make basic ends meet, and have no cash for other goods and services, the economy is destined to languish.

Middle class consumption hasn't been the problem in this economy, but I'm sure you didn't know that.
 
#35
#35
I don't think the writer was suggesting the problem is all structural. He didn't say that. He was making a statistical point about current hiring practices. If you read the whole article he is very much criticizing the economy under Obama.

"The Obama campaign emphasizes that "for years before the economic crisis," middle-class security had been slipping away because of stagnant wages and soaring healthcare costs. It's true that even before the start of the Iraq war in 2003 we had problems (education and fiscal control), but the record of the last four years is worrying. The unemployment rate under President Obama has averaged over 9 percent. Under George W. Bush, his predecessor, the jobless rate averaged 5.3 percent and was at 6.8 percent in the month his party lost the 2008 election. Job seekers are only one third as likely to find a job as before Obama was elected. A record number have been out of work for over six months. Hiring plans have sunk to the lowest reading since the third quarter of 2009, and only 26 percent of American companies plan to boost their compensation, the lowest since the depth of the last recession, as reported by David Rosenberg, chief economist of Gluskin Sheff.

Today a record number of households have at least one member looking for a job. The average private sector workweek is 34.5 hours. If not for the relatively short workweek, the jobless rate would be even higher. Another pattern that has emerged is that companies are asking employees to take unpaid leave, and this doesn't count toward the unemployment rates."

I don't think there is any question that Obama owns this economy.

Yeah, I agree that that was not the author's point to claim it's structural. I simply made that inference about the economy from some of the things he revealed in that statement. I agree that some of the practices you mention in another post to create jobs could potentially work, but I also think it's very difficult given that these businesses seem to get along without having to hire any employees that might have been lost due to the recession (at least that's the implication I took from his quote, although I understand it wasn't exactly the point he was trying to make). That's why I was saying it's a tough sell, but I admit it's not impossible.
 
#36
#36
We have the largest pile of money in the history of our country parked on the sideline waiting to be invested in startups and growing companies. Wonder why the Bains of the world won't pull the trigger on anything?


Because there is no demand.

If there were zero regulation tomorrow, the money would still sit there because no one is buying anything.
 
#37
#37
What suggests that the problem is structural?

Businesses exist within an environment today (and not necessarily of Obama's doing) that makes hiring full-time employees impractical because they aren't even needed in many cases. Also, the structural change to the service sector means that a lot of new jobs that are added are just crappy paying, often minimum wage jobs that aren't going to get anyone into the middle class or get them off welfare either.

Volprof out.
 
#38
#38
You raise minimum wage, you raise the price of goods. You raise the price of goods you hurt the middle class. Just a fact.

Quick comparison, in 1993 minimum wage was 4.25 per hour and gas was roughly 1.00 per hour. One hour of work (at mimimum wage) would earn you four gallons of gas. Now minimum wage is 7.25 and gas is 3.50 or more. One hour of work now buys roughly 2 gallons of gas. This shows how much purchasing power has been reduced.

The cost of goods are going up at a much higher rate than income and it is do to the overall cost of business.
 
#39
#39
The debate here is pretty simple. The only people who contend that supply side works are the people who are the suppliers.
 
#40
#40
Because there is no demand.

If there were zero regulation tomorrow, the money would still sit there because no one is buying anything.

that's senseless. They aren't investing based upon a two year timeline. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you should find someone in the equity investing business and ask them. You won't like the answer as it won't fit your Obama defense toolbox very well.
 
#42
#42
Jobs are up 160k. Unemployment rate rises to 8.3%. June employment revised down. Nearly all sectors report increased employment. Discuss.

This is a seasonal rise. Note the SERVICES industry ws the reason. Part time summer help. Then it goes away. The next report will be dismal. Guaranteed.
 
#43
#43
Businesses exist within an environment today (and not necessarily of Obama's doing) that makes hiring full-time employees impractical because they aren't even needed in many cases. Also, the structural change to the service sector means that a lot of new jobs that are added are just crappy paying, often minimum wage jobs that aren't going to get anyone into the middle class or get them off welfare either.

Volprof out.

Your point regarding the types of jobs endemic to a service economy is just wrong - almost silly even.

Clearly if the economy isn't generating jobs, it isn't generating jobs. How does this explanation even remotely address the issue being structural? Is it that you believe a service economy to be a structural impediment to full time jobs? Should I assume you're joking?
 
#44
#44
The problem with demand-side thinking is that the poor and middle class don't always rush to spend just because they have more money. People save and pay off debts, which is great, but does little in the market.
 
#45
#45
"Hey Mr. Jobs, there is no demand for a tablet sized computer. Everyone already has laptops and we are in a recession. Why waist money in developing it when we already have iphones and laptops."
 
#46
#46
The problem with demand-side thinking is that the poor and middle class don't always rush to spend just because they have more money. People save and pay off debts, which is great, but does little in the market.

Put an extra $500 in a poor persons hand and they go ape shat crazy deciding what they are going to speend it on .

Most of the middle class does try to save what they can, they are also the buying power in the USA. A sector of the middle class is turning into the poor class due to this economy.
 
#47
#47
Put an extra $500 in a poor persons hand and they go ape shat crazy deciding what they are going to speend it on .

Most of the middle class does try to save what they can, they are also the buying power in the USA. A sector of the middle class is turning into the poor class due to this economy.

Where does the $500 end up? Have you actually created demand or just a brief period of artificial demand?
 
#48
#48
Your point regarding the types of jobs endemic to a service economy is just wrong - almost silly even.

Clearly if the economy isn't generating jobs, it isn't generating jobs. How does this explanation even remotely address the issue being structural? Is it that you believe a service economy to be a structural impediment to full time jobs? Should I assume you're joking?

No, I'm not joking, and no I'm not silly. Sure not every service job is minimum-wage and part-time, but enough of them are, especially ones that uneducated people might work.

In closing, before I leave this thread, I just want to take one moment to thank you, BigPapaVol. Without you spearheading the attack against my comments in that "July in America" thread in the Football forum and informing me of what an idiot I am and how I don't understand our nation's forefathers, I wouldn't now be posting on the Politics forum. In a sense, every time I post a dumb comment on this forum you can also thank yourself for that.
 
#49
#49
The problem with demand-side thinking is that the poor and middle class don't always rush to spend just because they have more money. People save and pay off debts, which is great, but does little in the market.

Where does the $500 end up? Have you actually created demand or just a brief period of artificial demand?

I was referring to the bamawriter post.
The poor rush to spend their money.
 
#50
#50
No, I'm not joking, and no I'm not silly. Sure not every service job is minimum-wage and part-time, but enough of them are, especially ones that uneducated people might work.

In closing, before I leave this thread, I just want to take one moment to thank you, BigPapaVol. Without you spearheading the attack against my comments in that "July in America" thread in the Football forum and informing me of what an idiot I am and how I don't understand our nation's forefathers, I wouldn't now be posting on the Politics forum. In a sense, every time I post a dumb comment on this forum you can also thank yourself for that.
Overloading my ability to say you're welcome. And yes, the idea that service economy is more laden with low end jobs is silly to the point of laughable.

Now, back to this structural issue you've sided with lg on.
 

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