Just got my Bill Maher tickets

#201
#201
TennNC said:
I thought the issue was less about whether the government funds stem cell research but whether it was allowed to happen at all.

Regardless, using the logic above, you should feel the same way about the national missile defense system - something that hasn't been proven necessary or functional but has cost taxpayers a whole lot more than stem cell research has or ever will.

It is the single largest line item in the Pentagon's budget (more than $10 billion a year), has been tested numerous times over the past 25 years with nominal (at best) success, and is still not ready to be deployed.

And it is designed to protect us from a threat that, at my best count, we've only encountered once (Cuban Missile Crisis) - and that never came to fruition.
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No, stem cell research is more than allowed if you don't receive federal funding.

I have stated I believe I need a military in order to protect the country I live in. Does wasteful spending happen in defense? I am sure it does. Regardless, I still feel the need for the government to supply a military. I feel no need for the government to supply money for medical research. One, they don't manage it well enough. Two, who is to say what diseases should get which funding? Three, I am comfortable that completely private funded research would do as well or better than the current setup. There is money to made in medicine...there is no lack of trying.
 
#202
#202
KB5252 said:
Good point! We happen to be in just the right place in an arm of the milky way for life. We just happen to be placed the right distance from the sun for life. The earth just happens to be tilted to an angle that best suits life. You can go on and on. I would point out that things like that just don't happen by chance.
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and there are possibly millions of other planets the exact same. Do all of those prove a higher being at work too?
 
#205
#205
utvolpj said:
and there are possibly millions of other planets the exact same. Do all of those prove a higher being at work too?
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There are many candidates that have been found to date but they are either around the wrong type of star or the wrong type of planet to support life. I see your point but to date no life has been found. Further we do not know enough to be sure how "special" this planet may actually be. Long story short we do not know how many planets there are like earth. Is it possible there are though, sure.
 
#207
#207
allvol123 said:
1) I have stated I believe I need a military in order to protect the country I live in. 2) Does wasteful spending happen in defense? I am sure it does. 3) Regardless, I still feel the need for the government to supply a military.
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1) What is a NMD system protecting you from? A threat that isn't there.

2) You're correct - it's so much that the GAO can't even count it. Defense spending is the largest source of spending in the federal budget, and nearly a trillion dollars has been unaccounted for in the last 30 years.

3) Of course we do - that's not what we're discussing. I was comparing federal spending on medical research, which you deemed as waste, to that spent on a program, which is millions of times greater has similar "failed" results, and was created to defend the country against an enemy (The Soviet Union) we no longer face. We all should expect more from our military.
 
#208
#208
TennNC said:
Which of our enemies has a nuclear missile ready to annihilate the United States?
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I dunno, take any of the 100 Russian satelite states from the cold war.........

Like I said, it just takes one.......

Although, I doubt it would be launched.... I would put on in the hold of a Cruise Liner and do it that way....
 
#209
#209
MG1968 said:
China
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They're our enemy? Our largest trading partner? The host of the Summer Olympics? When have they come close to hinting at the possibility of launching a cross-seas nuclear attack? The answer is they haven't. Reagan instituted the SDI/Star Wars when we thought the Soviets might hit us, and we didn't have the sense to abandon the program when they no longer were our enemies.

I'm all for military spending, especially when it comes to providing for our troops and for weapons systems that actually would help us (or even that we'd ever use), but this is government waste of the highest order.
 
#210
#210
TennNC said:
1) What is a NMD system protecting you from? A threat that isn't there.

2) You're correct - it's so much that the GAO can't even count it. Defense spending is the largest source of spending in the federal budget, and nearly a trillion dollars has been unaccounted for in the last 30 years.

3) Of course we do - that's not what we're discussing. I was comparing federal spending on medical research, which you deemed as waste, to that spent on a program, which is millions of times greater has similar "failed" results, and was created to defend the country against an enemy (The Soviet Union) we no longer face. We all should expect more from our military.
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I don't agree threats are not or will not be there. You can't wait for someone to be able to attack you and then decide to build a defense in 3 days.

It is difficult to pick what is wasteful spending and what is not in defense spending...waste will always occur. My point on medical research spending is....cut it ALL. That is not difficult to refine.
 
#211
#211
OrangeEmpire said:
I dunno, take any of the 100 Russian satelite states from the cold war.........

Like I said, it just takes one.......

Although, I doubt it would be launched.... I would put on in the hold of a Cruise Liner and do it that way....
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But would we not be patrolling those waters at all times anyway?

Listen, the U.S. controls the overwhelming majority of nuclear weapons in the world. Anyone but an insane dictator of some 3rd world country (like Kim Jong Il, who doesn't have the nuke btw) knows that even if they hit the US with one nuke, we will launch 10x the amount at them and obliterate them. They're smart enough not to ever threaten using them against us.

That's why I think it's a crock that my tax dollars go to the numerous defense companies having fun seeing if they can blow up a missile with a missile.
 
#212
#212
TennNC said:
Listen, the U.S. controls the overwhelming majority of nuclear weapons in the world. Anyone but an insane dictator of some 3rd world country (like Kim Jong Il, who doesn't have the nuke btw) knows that even if they hit the US with one nuke, we will launch 10x the amount at them and obliterate them. They're smart enough not to ever threaten using them against us.
.
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You honestly believe sanity resides within a person merely because they are the dictator of a country?
 
#213
#213
allvol123 said:
I don't agree threats are not or will not be there. You can't wait for someone to be able to attack you and then decide to build a defense in 3 days.
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Our enemies could've given us 25 years' warning that they were going to launch a missile, and we still wouldn't be prepared today. So, perhaps there's a different approach?
 
#216
#216
allvol123 said:
You mentioned KJI, but there are others. It is not accurate to believe some fanatic like Ahmadinejad would not take their shot when given the opportunity.
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You're right - they don't have to be a "dictator" to be insane enough to try to take a shot. My post should've made that more clear.

But none of those insane leaders has that capability, so I think the threat of nuclear attack on US soil is far, far less than what the NMD supporters would have us believe.
 
#218
#218
BigPapaVol said:
you won't find proof. However, you will find, with some thought, that disbelieving in a higher being requires a very similar leap of faith to the one the believers are making.
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utvolpj said:
No, that's a line of thought to try and convince people that atheists/agnostics are forming their own "religion". The onus is on the person who presents the hypothesis to prove it correct. Turning it around does not work.
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Based on what? This isn't court.
 
#219
#219
allvol123 said:
It is more than possible. The world is constantly shrinking.
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It's also more than possible that one of our enemies one day could plant terrorist robots in our country to kill us, but we're not busy spending billions on a program to create Terminator IV to detect and destroy said robots.
 
#220
#220
TennNC said:
It's also more than possible that one of our enemies one day could plant terrorist robots in our country to kill us, but we're not busy spending billions on a program to create Terminator IV to detect and destroy said robots.
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Anyway...off my initial idea. The fact that the DOD does not spend every penny perfectly in no way contributes any merit to the government spending any money on medical research.
 
#221
#221
allvol123 said:
Anyway...off my initial idea. The fact that the DOD does not spend every penny perfectly in no way contributes any merit to the government spending any money on medical research.
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I just thought that if you believed this: "Crap because they are not accountable...it is free money." that you'd feel the same way about unaccountable "crap" regardless of where it's spent.
 
#222
#222
TennNC said:
I just thought that if you believed this: "Crap because they are not accountable...it is free money." that you'd feel the same way about unaccountable "crap" regardless of where it's spent.
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Yea...I am against wasteful spending...who isn't? I don't feel it is the government's role to fund medical research.
 
#223
#223
TennNC said:
But would we not be patrolling those waters at all times anyway?

Listen, the U.S. controls the overwhelming majority of nuclear weapons in the world. Anyone but an insane dictator of some 3rd world country (like Kim Jong Il, who doesn't have the nuke btw) knows that even if they hit the US with one nuke, we will launch 10x the amount at them and obliterate them. They're smart enough not to ever threaten using them against us.

That's why I think it's a crock that my tax dollars go to the numerous defense companies having fun seeing if they can blow up a missile with a missile.
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So you want all of the tax dollars to go to social programs which I view as a waste.... what is the compromise?
 
#224
#224
TennNC said:
They're our enemy? Our largest trading partner? The host of the Summer Olympics? When have they come close to hinting at the possibility of launching a cross-seas nuclear attack? The answer is they haven't. Reagan instituted the SDI/Star Wars when we thought the Soviets might hit us, and we didn't have the sense to abandon the program when they no longer were our enemies.

I'm all for military spending, especially when it comes to providing for our troops and for weapons systems that actually would help us (or even that we'd ever use), but this is government waste of the highest order.
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What does that have to do with any thing?

Germany shouldn't have been seen as a threat because they held the olympics?

That is insane!
 
#225
#225
TennNC said:
I just thought that if you believed this: "Crap because they are not accountable...it is free money." that you'd feel the same way about unaccountable "crap" regardless of where it's spent.
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About 90% of government is a complete waste.
 
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