Karma: Trophy Hunter Crushed by Shot Elephant

#27
#27
508mikey said:
How much skill to shoot a big slow moving target ?
Click to expand...

Not really the point. The animal has already been identified by management for destruction. They can have Joe Warden shoot it for nothing, or Dr Moneybags shoot it for $50k. No brainer.
 
#30
#30
InVOLuntary said:
Probably because there is a reason to protect the herd. If you don't have a herd you cant charge $50K to hunt one. You guys seriously need to read up on game conservation before you spout off. Your​ ignorance is on full display. And when u say read up I'm not talking about the liberal pamphlets that know zero.
Click to expand...

So if they are protecting the herd, why are the elephant numbers dropping rapidly?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#31
#31
If he was a lone game hunter I'd say it's unfortunate. This guy however started a game hunting business that catered to the rich.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#32
#32
My personal opinion, I've never understood the desire to kill something just to claim a trophy. Besides, bringing an elephant gun to the party doesn't exactly make for a fair fight. Now, give the big game hunter a machete and then see if he can claim a trophy. That's sportsmanship.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 people
#36
#36
You also don't understand the circumstances of these hunts. These animals aren't being sniped from 100yds out like a deer or an elk. It's called dangerous game hunting for a reason. Just like the rest of the big 5 the hunter and the PH put their lives at risk,it is part of the challenge. Most of the time due to cover the hunter must stalk to within 20-30 yds of the elephant. As close or closer than a bow hunter hunting deer. Then they have try and make a shot through all that brush into an area surrounded by anywhere from 4-8" of solid bone to the brain. Then depending on where exactly it hits the brain it may or may not be an instant kill. Also the term "elephant gun" is a misconception now. The days of hunters going out with the big cannons (.600 nitro express or bigger rifles) are long past. Most of the big 5 now are taken with smaller .375 h&h or .450/.460 caliber rifles that only hold 1-3 rounds. The same stuff that is on the upper end of what people use for Brown bear or moose.

The point is hunters aren't just going out and mass killing defenses animals. They are going out, face to face with something that even if you make a perfect shot has a very real chance of turning you into bloody goo. You should really read about some of these modern hunts. It's a lot more personnel and fair chase than what is universally accepted for other game animals.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#37
#37
Not surprised to see someone on here defending elephant hunting. Ive seen and read enough to know many of the "big game hunt" operations are nothing more than giant fenced land plots with wild animals herded then trapped between them. If they are not using that trick for their reserve then they are using copters or other tracking methods (like splitting up the reserve squarely with roads (to see tracks)) so you can spot the recent activity.

The Bush Elephant isnt endangered now but it soon will be. 5 years maybe, 10 years probably, 15 years you betcha. Poachers will never stop with the price of ivory being so high and desirable. Ive seen some pro-big game outfits market that Bush elephant hunting is actually helping the elephant population and they'll use Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Mozambique, Botswana, Kenya population numbers as an example. Only what people fail to realize is that the Bush elephant had a much, much greater range in the past than it does today and that many of these healthy elephant populations are becoming marooned and facing much, much smaller ranges, poaching and hunting - which are in turn directly impacting the species ability to maintain a healthy population. Heck look at the Indian elephant - estimated over a million wild elephants a few hundred years ago, 100,000 a hundred years ago now it's down to 20-30,000. I'd guess that trend is pretty similar to the African Bush elephant. Nothing to be alarmed about though right?

Let's not touch on how many of these beasts are slaughtered specifically for their tusks then left to rot. The poaching has not shown any sign of slowing down even in areas where the population is low. Look I get it. Its a dangerous & thrilling "hunt". You have to get close to increase the effectiveness of the shot, so like guy in OP, you could very easily die (it's still very rare as there is usually more than 1 gun in the vicinity). But everything before that point is so predictable that the hunt is borderline scripted. If you believe elephants are hard to track in these areas then you are sorely mistaken. They are GIANT beasts. Hard to miss even in the bush.

I feel really bad for people who honestly think they're somehow doing the species a favor by hunting it - especially a species with such a troubled history. If you want the truth just look at the data. Tanzania had over 100,000 elephants in 2007. Today less than 45,000. That's a massive drop in less than 10 years. It really isn't going to take much for these animals to get a global "endangered" tag. They are already borderline across all subspecies and the data hasnt gotten any better either.

But yeah, killin elephants is fun! It's all worth it for that one epic picture and that meat you'll donate to the locals. Killin' two birds with one stone! Savin' the species and supportin' the local economy! Yeeeeeehaaaaawww!

Remember we're doing them a favor. They need our help -- not in protecting their habitat, in defending against poachers, not in expanding their range - no - we must do the necessary thing. We must shoot them in the head with a bullet. It is the only way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
#38
#38
InVOLuntary said:
They're not in the areas where hunting is permitted.
Click to expand...

I havent read anything recent that indicates that the numbers are improving in those areas. Something like a 10-15% decrease over the last 7-8 years is the most recent report that I'd read. I'd call that a significant decrease given the short time frame. Other areas have it much much worse, upwards of 60% loss of the wild population in the last 10 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#39
#39
DancingOutlaw said:
Someone who judges people for spending their own money however they want= douche.

Pretty straightforward.
Click to expand...

No, using your brain to judge the actions of others is quite reasonable.

Using your brain to give someone money so you can take down another creature equals douche.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#40
#40
Sounds like the hunter knew the risk and paid the price. Too bad it wasnt that ass crack Jimmy John.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#41
#41
Volunteer_Kirby said:
Not surprised to see someone on here defending elephant hunting. Ive seen and read enough to know many of the "big game hunt" operations are nothing more than giant fenced land plots with wild animals herded then trapped between them. If they are not using that trick for their reserve then they are using copters or other tracking methods (like splitting up the reserve squarely with roads (to see tracks)) so you can spot the recent activity.

The Bush Elephant isnt endangered now but it soon will be. 5 years maybe, 10 years probably, 15 years you betcha. Poachers will never stop with the price of ivory being so high and desirable. Ive seen some pro-big game outfits market that Bush elephant hunting is actually helping the elephant population and they'll use Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Mozambique, Botswana, Kenya population numbers as an example. Only what people fail to realize is that the Bush elephant had a much, much greater range in the past than it does today and that many of these healthy elephant populations are becoming marooned and facing much, much smaller ranges, poaching and hunting - which are in turn directly impacting the species ability to maintain a healthy population. Heck look at the Indian elephant - estimated over a million wild elephants a few hundred years ago, 100,000 a hundred years ago now it's down to 20-30,000. I'd guess that trend is pretty similar to the African Bush elephant. Nothing to be alarmed about though right?

Let's not touch on how many of these beasts are slaughtered specifically for their tusks then left to rot. The poaching has not shown any sign of slowing down even in areas where the population is low. Look I get it. Its a dangerous & thrilling "hunt". You have to get close to increase the effectiveness of the shot, so like guy in OP, you could very easily die (it's still very rare as there is usually more than 1 gun in the vicinity). But everything before that point is so predictable that the hunt is borderline scripted. If you believe elephants are hard to track in these areas then you are sorely mistaken. They are GIANT beasts. Hard to miss even in the bush.

I feel really bad for people who honestly think they're somehow doing the species a favor by hunting it - especially a species with such a troubled history. If you want the truth just look at the data. Tanzania had over 100,000 elephants in 2007. Today less than 45,000. That's a massive drop in less than 10 years. It really isn't going to take much for these animals to get a global "endangered" tag. They are already borderline across all subspecies and the data hasnt gotten any better either.

But yeah, killin elephants is fun! It's all worth it for that one epic picture and that meat you'll donate to the locals. Killin' two birds with one stone! Savin' the species and supportin' the local economy! Yeeeeeehaaaaawww!

Remember we're doing them a favor. They need our help -- not in protecting their habitat, in defending against poachers, not in expanding their range - no - we must do the necessary thing. We must shoot them in the head with a bullet. It is the only way.
Click to expand...

You stop the hunting their numbers will decrease faster. The poachers are the prime reason for the drop in numbers. The only people that are attempting to curb the poachers are the game managers. Some governments are offering some assistance but for the most part it's the professional hunters that are trying to slow down the poachers. Without the money from the legal hunters the poachers would have limited resistance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#45
#45
allvol123 said:
No, using your brain to judge the actions of others is quite reasonable.

Using your brain to give someone money so you can take down another creature equals douche.
Click to expand...

I pay for a hunting/fishing license every year. That makes me and thousands of others douches?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#47
#47
InVOLuntary said:
You stop the hunting their numbers will decrease faster. The poachers are the prime reason for the drop in numbers. The only people that are attempting to curb the poachers are the game managers. Some governments are offering some assistance but for the most part it's the professional hunters that are trying to slow down the poachers. Without the money from the legal hunters the poachers would have limited resistance.
Click to expand...

You say it like its a fact but it's not. Yes the big game outfits have a vested interest in protecting their assets and their land. Naturally it makes the jobs of poachers harder. And yes the numbers would "drop quicker" in theory, but that's only because there aren't proper resources allocated towards the problem. The problem is that the numbers are dropping too quick DESPITE these so-called efforts by "wildlife game managers". It's a problem of too much in too little time - hunters ARE NOT helping this problem!!! If there was enough money from the government more could be done to protect the parks from poachers. The money just isnt there and the fact that international trophy hunter outfits come in and dominate the market, take a majority of the $ & lose an elephant in the process, doesnt make the trade-off any better than what what the government could provide if it had the funds.

So yes, they help by protecting the assets which in turn makes them a ridiculous profit. But what about the numbers... Are the numbers showing a positive or negative trend in regards to population size? All the data Ive seen shows a negative trend...

Elephants -> Big game trophy outfits -> big $ -> lots of man power to protect assets

Take the big game trophy outfits out of the equation, replace them with an actual government entity. Tell me, can you say without a doubt that if the proper resources were allocated by their governments would their numbers still decrease? I'm guessing the numbers would look better than what they look like now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#49
#49
I'm not stating it as fact any more than you are. I am saying what I believe based on research.

Poachers are responsible for well over 90% of the animals taken. The private hunters/game managers are responsible for a vast majority of the policing efforts through actual enforcement or through dollars that are directly conributable to hunters game fees. In order to limit poaching, you can never stop it, it takes large amounts of cash. Many of these countries are poor and have corrupt governments so virtually no monies from these governments go toward game management or poaching control.

The quickest way to rapidly see elephant, rhino and other big game is to stop legal hunting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#50
#50
InVOLuntary said:
I'm not stating it as fact any more than you are. I am saying what I believe based on research.

Poachers are responsible for well over 90% of the animals taken. The private hunters/game managers are responsible for a vast majority of the policing efforts through actual enforcement or through dollars that are directly conributable to hunters game fees. In order to limit poaching, you can never stop it, it takes large amounts of cash. Many of these countries are poor and have corrupt governments so virtually no monies from these governments go toward game management or poaching control.

The quickest way to rapidly see elephant, rhino and other big game is to stop legal hunting.
Click to expand...

Im not disagreeing with you given the situation but people who pose with African big game they just killed look like buttholes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top