Karma: Trophy Hunter Crushed by Shot Elephant

#52
#52
I've guided duck hunts before. Typically the paying hunters mirror how the guide acts. A good guide that respects the game will demand the same from his guided hunters. A bad guide will often have bad hunters.

I have never been on an African hunt but I bet it's the same.

A word of advice to the PETA, anti hunting folks. Be careful debating hunting and conservation with well versed hunters. They are most likely more knowledgeable on this subject than anyone.
 
#53
#53
Jxn Vol said:
I've guided duck hunts before. Typically the paying hunters mirror how the guide acts. A good guide that respects the game will demand the same from his guided hunters. A bad guide will often have bad hunters.

I have never been on an African hunt but I bet it's the same.

A word of advice to the PETA, anti hunting folks. Be careful debating hunting and conservation with well versed hunters. They are most likely more knowledgeable on this subject than anyone.
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Who are you calling PETA anti hunting folks in this thread? I think it has also been pointed out that conservation has not worked, at least when it comes to elephants . Their numbers are getting lower and the money from the hunts isn't going for what it was intended.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/11/151715-conservation-trophy-hunting-elephants-tusks-poaching-zimbabwe-namibia/
 
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#54
#54
#55
#55
InVOLuntary said:
I'm not stating it as fact any more than you are. I am saying what I believe based on research.

Poachers are responsible for well over 90% of the animals taken. The private hunters/game managers are responsible for a vast majority of the policing efforts through actual enforcement or through dollars that are directly conributable to hunters game fees. In order to limit poaching, you can never stop it, it takes large amounts of cash. Many of these countries are poor and have corrupt governments so virtually no monies from these governments go toward game management or poaching control.

The quickest way to rapidly see elephant, rhino and other big game is to stop legal hunting.
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You are arguing with people who live in a fantasy world.
 
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#56
#56
Jxn Vol said:
I'm not calling anyone anything. If you love Dumbo that's fine. I'm not here to judge.
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I understand conservation quite well. My uncle is a game warden and my father and I hunted and fished every weekend. My wife's family are commercial shrimpers and fisherman in the gulf. They all practice conservation. Paying 50k to corrupt African governments that don't stop poaching and don't give any of the money to poor villagers is not conservation.
 
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#57
#57
VolnJC said:
I understand conservation quite well. My uncle is a game warden and my father and I hunted and fished every weekend. My wife's family are commercial shrimpers and fisherman in the gulf. They all practice conservation. Paying 50k to corrupt African governments that don't stop poaching and don't give any of the money to poor villagers is not conservation.
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Good for you and your family. Again, I'm not calling anyone anything. I understand that everyone has an opinion. Everyone draws their lines in different places.
 
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#58
#58
bignewt said:
Im not disagreeing with you given the situation but people who pose with African big game they just killed look like buttholes.
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And I'm not disagreeing ​with you on that point. Everyone has the right to view the people that hunt African big game the way they choose. The point I'm making is legal hunting brings in a lot of money that a portion goes to poacher prevention. It's very difficult to quantify the affect it has. One can argue that it adds to the problem and one can argue that it diminishes the overall population drop. You can't look at overall population losses as there are many areas not open to hunting but still have significant losses due to poachers. The studies I've seen that look at particular areas seem to point to less overall losses.
 
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#59
#59
I was watching the local news the other night, channel 10 in Knoxville. They threw out a teaser asking whether you thought your tax dollars should go to stocking streams in the Cherokee National forest. I thought, well this will be interesting knowing what I know about that fishery. Well it turned out to just be click bait to get you to watch the story. As I knew, zero tax dollars go to stocking the trout in the rivers and streams of the National forest. Each fisherman buys a trout stamp. As it turns out the stocking program cost a $1 million a year while it brings in about $50 million annually. I realize this is somewhat on a tangent but it really parallels this African big game predicament.
 
#60
#60
VolnJC said:
In theory this is true but elephants in particular, are dwindling and the money, that was supposed to help the villagers, isn't getting to them.


But a closer look at trophy hunting in Africa shows that the industry employs few people and that the money from hunt fees that trickles down to needy villagers is minimal. Government corruption can be a factor. In Zimbabwe, for instance, individuals associated with President Robert Mugabe have seized lands in lucrative hunting areas. Trophy hunting isn’t stopping poaching, especially in countries that have a poor record of protecting their wildlife.
Six countries—South Africa, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Mozambique, Namibia, and Tanzania—have many of the remaining savanna elephants. Along with Cameroon and Gabon, these nations allow sport hunting regardless of the level of decline in their elephant populations. (Botswana, which has more than 130,000 elephants by one recent estimate, has banned trophy hunting.)
According to the latest figures, Tanzania’s elephant population has fallen from nearly 110,000 in 2009 to just over 43,000 at the end of 2014—a 60 percent drop. *Mozambique’s elephants declined from an estimated 20,000 to 10,300 during the same period. In Zimbabwe, a recent survey shows massive losses in some parks.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ng-elephants-tusks-poaching-zimbabwe-namibia/
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You have to realize that elephants don't adhere to man made boundaries. They are nomadic, and a decrease in population may have factors that have nothing to do with hunting. One country has 43,00p elephants. That's a lot. Tanzania is not much bigger than Texas.
 
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#61
#61
InVOLuntary said:
I was watching the local news the other night, channel 10 in Knoxville. They threw out a teaser asking whether you thought your tax dollars should go to stocking streams in the Cherokee National forest. I thought, well this will be interesting knowing what I know about that fishery. Well it turned out to just be click bait to get you to watch the story. As I knew, zero tax dollars go to stocking the trout in the rivers and streams of the National forest. Each fisherman buys a trout stamp. As it turns out the stocking program cost a $1 million a year while it brings in about $50 million annually. I realize this is somewhat on a tangent but it really parallels this African big game predicament.
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Except its hard to catch and release an elephant or rhino you just shot.
 
#63
#63
bignewt said:
Except its hard to catch and release an elephant or rhino you just shot.
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If they are catching and releasing why do they have to stock weekly?

Also, the post was meant to point out two things:

There are huge gains to be made when sportsmen pay to play.
There are huge misconceptions about what role sportsmen play in conservation.
 
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#64
#64
InVOLuntary said:
If they are catching and releasing why do they have to stock weekly?

Also, the post was meant to point out two things:

There are huge gains to be made when sportsmen pay to play.
There are huge misconceptions about what role sportsmen play in conservation.
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You might as well forget it InVol..The animal worshiper zombie army Disney and PETA have created is going to win eventually. They will not stop till they get what they want.
 
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#65
#65
Ulysees E. McGill said:
You might as well forget it InVol..The animal worshiper zombie army Disney and PETA have created is going to win eventually. They will not stop till they get what they want.
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This is why I quit posting. It became obvious that no matter what you say, how well thought out, or logical they will never get past the knee jerk reaction. You could talk till you're blue in the face and they will never be able to open their minds up enough to even possibly entertain the idea that trophy hunters aren't monsters.
 
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#66
#66
chatsworth_vol said:
This is why I quit posting. It became obvious that no matter what you say, how well thought out, or logical they will never get past the knee jerk reaction. You could talk till you're blue in the face and they will never be able to open their minds up enough to even possibly entertain the idea that trophy hunters aren't monsters.
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Once you had several zombies in this thread actually applaud the fact that a human being died because they legally shot an elephant...that was apparent. That is assuming a lot about the person who died. He was somebody's son, brother, husband and father..to applaud his death shows how despicable a human you are. I am not a avid hunter anymore, but I know that in order for preservation/conservation of species to happen, you have to make it dollarable. Demonizing hunters is as stupid as worshiping animals, and I love animals.
 
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#67
#67
What was the elephants name? How shall we eulogize him? Did he used to play with the orphans at a nearby village?
 
#68
#68
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Once you had several zombies in this thread actually applaud the fact that a human being died because they legally shot an elephant...that was apparent. That is assuming a lot about the person who died. He was somebody's son, brother, husband and father..to applaud his death shows how despicable a human you are. I am not a avid hunter anymore, but I know that in order for preservation/conservation of species to happen, you have to make it dollarable. Demonizing hunters is as stupid as worshiping animals, and I love animals.
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Serious hunters are some of the biggest conservationists that I know. They have the utmost respect for animals and nature.
 
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#69
#69
golfballs said:
Serious hunters are some of the biggest conservationists that I know. They have the utmost respect for animals and nature.
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And I guarantee the people that ***** about the environment and saving the animals don't contribute jack to TWRA or any other conservation fund. TWRA is completely funded by sportsmen, so without us douches paying for wardens there'd be no one to catch poachers and those breaking the law. It's also the reason our state populations of deer, turkey, bear, trout, elk, etc. have been brought back from the brink. If you want to get mad about the decline in elephant/rhino populations, get mad at the Chinese for thinking animal parts help your libido. With over a billion people they don't seem to be having an issue but the demand remains high. They will drive many species to extinction because they don't care. Responsible sportsmen paying big bucks to fund wardens and enforcement is about the only chance they have at stopping the poachers.
 
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#70
#70
DancingOutlaw said:
And I guarantee the people that ***** about the environment and saving the animals don't contribute jack to TWRA or any other conservation fund. TWRA is completely funded by sportsmen, so without us douches paying for wardens there'd be no one to catch poachers and those breaking the law. It's also the reason our state populations of deer, turkey, bear, trout, elk, etc. have been brought back from the brink. If you want to get mad about the decline in elephant/rhino populations, get mad at the Chinese for thinking animal parts help your libido. With over a billion people they don't seem to be having an issue but the demand remains high. They will drive many species to extinction because they don't care. Responsible sportsmen paying big bucks to fund wardens and enforcement is about the only chance they have at stopping the poachers.
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TWRA is about the only government program that is totally self sufficient and doesn't rely on tax payers dollars. For some reason some folks just can't see the big picture.
 
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#71
#71
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#72
#72
Volunteer_Kirby said:
Facts won't help. This thread is just one giant circle jerk at this point.
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The problem is that an article from National Geographic may or may not be factual. You can't look at overall numbers and come to that conclusion. You have to look at areas that allow hunting. You have to look at what the numbers would be like if legal hunting wasn't allowed. Those numbers don't exist.
 
#73
#73
Yeah what a hero.

Screen-Shot-2016-02-26-at-10.29.08-AM.png
 
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#75
#75
InVOLuntary said:
The problem is that an article from National Geographic may or may not be factual. You can't look at overall numbers and come to that conclusion. You have to look at areas that allow hunting. You have to look at what the numbers would be like if legal hunting wasn't allowed. Those numbers don't exist.
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Show me one that shows elephant numbers are increasing.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-elephant-populations-stable/

https://www.iucn.org/news/species/2...frican-elephant-losses-25-years-–-iucn-report
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...an-elephant-population-declines-by-30-percent
 
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