Karma: Trophy Hunter Crushed by Shot Elephant

#76
#76
Yeah what a hero.

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You don't know a damn thing about that guy except what your Walt Disney/PETA programmed mind tells you when you see that picture. Man has been hunting great animals, and getting excited about it, since the dawn of time. The guy may be a giant douche, or he may be a great person who enjoys legally hunting large quadrupeds.
 
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#77
#77
This is a well written article on the subject of trophy hunting and conservation.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hunting-big-game-why-people-kill-animals-for-fun/

POWER PLAY

The slaughtering of large, dangerous animals as a spectacle dates back thousands of years, with records from the Assyrian empire (about 4,000 years ago to around 600 B.C.) describing kings that boasted of killing elephants, ibex, ostriches, wild bulls and lions, according to a study published in 2008 in the journal Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research.
These hunts were carefully orchestrated and conducted for the amusement of royalty and as demonstrations of their strength, Linda Kalof, a professor of sociology at Michigan State University, told Live Science in an email.
"Ancient canned hunts were spectacular displays of royal power and dominance, and always took place with the king's public watching from the sidelines," Kalof said. "A successful hunt requires the death of unrestrained wild animals — animals who are hostile, shun or attack humans, and are not submissive to human authority."
Even today, acquiring trophy animals is a way of displaying power, Kalof noted. In some African countries, where big-game hunting and trophy display are expensive forms of entertainment practiced predominantly by white men, hunting recalls ideologies that are deeply rooted in colonialism and patriarchy, Kalof said.
THE HIGH COST OF HUNTING

And then there's the money involved. Legal hunting, which is conducted under the supervision of government agencies and official guides, involves expensive permits and is limited to specific animal populations and only in certain areas. Illegal poaching, on the other hand, circumvents all regulations and targets animals regardless of their age, sex, or endangered status.
The price tag attached to legal big-game hunting is considerable, once you tally up the costs of travel and lodging expenses, state-of-the-art equipment, local guides, and hunting permits. Government-sanctioned hunting is a booming enterprise in some African countries, with visiting hunters spending an estimated $200 million annually, The New York Times reported in 2015.
And when American dentist Walter Palmer notoriously shot a 13-year-old lion named Cecil in Zimbabwe in July 2015, he purportedly spentapproximately $54,000 just on permits for the privilege.
In other words, people who hunt recreationally — and share photos of their trophies — are broadcasting that they can support lavish habits, biologist Chris Darimont, a Hakai-Raincoast Professor in the Department of Geography at the University of Victoria in British Columbia, told Live Science in an email.
In a study on contemporary trophy hunting behavior, published in March 2016 in the journal Biology Letters, Darimont and his co-authors investigated whether evolutionary anthropology could provide answers about motives for recreational hunting. They suggested in their findings that men use hunting to send signals about their fitness to rivals and potential mates, noting that even subsistence hunters (those who kill animals for food) targeted animals that were more challenging for them to catch, simply to let others know that they could afford to take that risk.
"The inference is that they have the physical and mental characteristics that allow them to behave in a costly way and absorb those costs," Darimont said.
And by sharing images of their trophies on social media, hunters can now trumpet messages about their personal wealth and social status to a global audience, he added. [Black Market Horns: Images from a Rhino Bust]
FUNDING CONSERVATION
 
#78
#78
#79
#79
and from the same article

FUNDING CONSERVATION

But there's yet another side to the recreational hunting story: Some hunters argue that the money spent on their hobby is funding important conservation work. When hunters pay thousands of dollars to government agencies for the privilege of hunting certain types of wildlife in designated zones, portions of those costs can be invested in federal programs and community efforts to preserve animals living in protected areas – and even safeguard them against poaching, according to theWorld Wide Fund for Nature (WWF).
"In certain limited and rigorously controlled cases, including for threatened species, scientific evidence has shown that trophy hunting can be an effective conservation tool as part of a broad mix of strategies," the WWF states on its website.
Because legal hunting provides local jobs and revenue, it can work as a deterrent against poaching and helps to conserve ecosystems, professional hunter Nathan Askew, owner of an American company that leads hunting safaris for "dangerous game" in South Africa, Tanzania, Botswana and Mozambique, explained in a Facebook post.
"The positive economic impact brought about by hunting incentivizes governments, landowners and companies to protect the animals and their habitats," Askew said.
By demonstrating that wildlife has economic value, hunting can actively engage local communities in efforts to stop poachers and preserve wild spaces that might not otherwise be maintained for wildlife, a representative of the hunting organization Safari Club International (SCI), told Live Science in an email.
Hunting under government supervision can also preserve the health of animal populations in the wild by weeding out individuals that are less fit. In Namibia, for example, black rhinos are listed as critically endangered, with only 5,000 individuals remaining in the wild. Yet the Namibian government maintains an annual hunting quota of five post-breeding males, to stimulate population growth by allowing younger males to breed, the SCI representative explained. [A Crash of Rhinos: See All 5 Species]
"Not only does the black rhino hunting benefit rhino population growth, it also generates hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue that by law has to be put toward rhino conservation in Namibia. Therefore, hunting provides a direct cash benefit to rhino conservation that tourism can’t provide," the representative said in a statement.
CONSERVATION QUESTIONS

However, recent studies suggest that modern hunters may be overestimating their contributions to wildlife conservation. Not all countries that support recreational hunting are transparent about where that income goes, and it can be uncertain how much — if any — is actuallybenefiting African communities or conservation efforts.
A report that the Democratic staff of the House Committee on Natural Resources (a congressional committee of the U.S. House of Representatives) issued in June 2016 suggested that income from huntingin African countries such as Zimbabwe, Tanzania, South Africa and Namibia, from which the greatest number of hunting trophies are imported into the U.S., was not meeting conservation needs.
"In assessing the flow of trophy hunting revenue to conservation efforts, we found many troubling examples of funds either being diverted from their purpose or not being dedicated to conservation in the first place," the report's authors wrote.
Other experts have also questioned hunting's usefullness as a tool for conservation. In fact, when it comes to lions, "trophy hunting adds to the problem," Jeff Flocken, North American director for the International Fund for Animal Welfare, wrote in August 2013, in an opinion column forNational Geographic.
Flocken argued that trophy hunting weakens the African lion gene pool because the most desirable trophy kills are young, healthy males. Removing them from the population means that their DNA won't contribute to the next generation of lions. Killing young males also destabilizes their prides, and can result in more lion casualties as rival males compete to take their place, he wrote.
But perhaps most importantly, he added, legalized recreational hunting derails conservation efforts by simply devaluing the lives of the hunted animals.
"It's a message that won't be heard as long as it is common and legal to kill lions for sport," Flocken said in the article. "Why should anyone spend money to protect an animal that a wealthy American can then pay to go kill?"
 
#80
#80
Poaching is the problem dude, nobody likes poachers. I guarantee you that populations a are stabilized in legal hunting areas with good enforcement.

Nope all areas are seeing reduced numbers...the problem is the corrupt African governments do little to stop poaching while pocketing the conservation money.
 
#81
#81
The problem is that an article from National Geographic may or may not be factual. You can't look at overall numbers and come to that conclusion. You have to look at areas that allow hunting. You have to look at what the numbers would be like if legal hunting wasn't allowed. Those numbers don't exist.

The problem is people fail to recognize a problem when it's staring them right in the face. The numbers dont lie, the trends in population arent improving and the big hunter outfits/government officials are the ones making the most profit - in many cases big game outfits have exclusive deals with government officials over how many elephants can be "purchased" for said hunting excursions. Seems like a teeny-tiny conflict of interest but what do I know? You don't have to believe me or National Geographic. That's your own prerogative. The species is headed straight for endangerment if the government doesn't start stepping in, severing ties with big game outfits and employing local CONSERVATION efforts instead of international trophy hunting outfits to manage the problem.

Look at what Botswana has done. They've banned elephant hunting and have established a true government and local presence. Herds are coming to Botswana and it's become perhaps the last true haven for African Bush elephants, especially with all the nearby poaching by professional poachers/military/locals. I think they are the only country whose elephant population remained relatively stable over the last few years and that may be the herds seeking water/shelter from poaching areas more than anything. Check out Elephants Without Borders if you want to get a real look at the conservation side of things. They have detailed information on the subject, as well as peer reviewed papers published on the decline in population over the past few years. I believe they are the ones who Nat Geo referenced for the numbers - but ya know, don't let that deter you. Also check out http://www.greatelephantcensus.com/final-report/ for more info on how they collected the data.

We can talk about this again in 5-10-15 years if ya want. This problem aint goin' away. Something tells me the pro-big game guys will ignore it as long as possible. That's fine - afterall, their ideals are in line with the rest of the world, at least if the demand for ivory is any indication. Right? :cool2:
 
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#82
#82
You don't know a damn thing about that guy except what your Walt Disney/PETA programmed mind tells you when you see that picture. Man has been hunting great animals, and getting excited about it, since the dawn of time. The guy may be a giant douche, or he may be a great person who enjoys legally hunting large quadrupeds.

Give me a break; this guy did it because he's rich and can afford it. He doesn't do it because his survival depends on it. Comparing him to cave men is ridiculous.

You seem to be pretty preachy yourself considering you keep accusing others of just accepting what "Walt Disney/PETA" preaches.
 
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#83
#83
Unfortunately with Scientific American you also have to research who writes the articles
 
#84
#84
You don't know a damn thing about that guy except what your Walt Disney/PETA programmed mind tells you when you see that picture. Man has been hunting great animals, and getting excited about it, since the dawn of time. The guy may be a giant douche, or he may be a great person who enjoys legally hunting large quadrupeds.

Giant douche who sells turd sandwiches.
 
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#86
#86
Give me a break; this guy did it because he's rich and can afford it. He doesn't do it because his survival depends on it. Comparing him to cave men is ridiculous.

You seem to be pretty preachy yourself considering you keep accusing others of just accepting what "Walt Disney/PETA" preaches.

I see a way of life that I have grown up with under attack from morons on every side. My grand dad took me hunting and fishing, and taught me love and respect for nature. I taught my son also, but idiots are trying to eventually take that away from us. I wonder if my grandkids, or great grandkids will get to live in a world where they too can enjoy these rights? If it is up to you jerks...the answer is no. That is the agenda behind the arguments, I don't want to see any animals hunted to extinction.
 
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#91
#91
Once you had several zombies in this thread actually applaud the fact that a human being died because they legally shot an elephant...that was apparent. That is assuming a lot about the person who died. He was somebody's son, brother, husband and father..to applaud his death shows how despicable a human you are. I am not a avid hunter anymore, but I know that in order for preservation/conservation of species to happen, you have to make it dollarable. Demonizing hunters is as stupid as worshiping animals, and I love animals.

Do I feel bad the guy died? Yes, it's sad he lost his life. But I also feel bad the elephant died. Being a big game hunter, wasn't he aware of the inherent risk to his life? The elephant was just trying to live its life and protect its herd. It didn't start the day thinking it was a good day for killing just for killings sake. I will never understand the urge to kill just to kill.
 
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#93
#93
Do I feel bad the guy died? Yes, it's sad he lost his life. But I also feel bad the elephant died. Being a big game hunter, wasn't he aware of the inherent risk to his life? The elephant was just trying to live its life and protect its herd. It didn't start the day thinking it was a good day for killing just for killings sake. I will never understand the urge to kill just to kill.

Some humans have insatiable sadistic urges. I guess it's best that they get their jollies blowing away the critters.
 
#94
#94
I see a way of life that I have grown up with under attack from morons on every side. My grand dad took me hunting and fishing, and taught me love and respect for nature. I taught my son also, but idiots are trying to eventually take that away from us. I wonder if my grandkids, or great grandkids will get to live in a world where they too can enjoy these rights? If it is up to you jerks...the answer is no. That is the agenda behind the arguments, I don't want to see any animals hunted to extinction.

First of all, if you're going to just start calling me and anyone that doesn't agree with you 100% names when I and others haven't called you anything, then you can kindly piss off.

Second, the issue for most everyone here is big game hunting for trophies. Pretty sure most have made it clear they have little problems with hunting and fishing in general. YOU are the one that are getting so worked up over it that you're playing the victim role and lashing out and frankly, doing very little to help your cause.
 
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#95
#95
I can pull article also that contradict those. Every article has a bias so there's no point. I never said overall numbers were not down. I've said you have to look at the herds that have huntable populations. When poachers are taking over 90% of the animals the effect of legal hunting will be minimized as to the whole population. Take that $200 million from legal hunting away an watch the population plummet.
 
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#99
#99
First of all, if you're going to just start calling me and anyone that doesn't agree with you 100% names when I and others haven't called you anything, then you can kindly piss off.

Second, the issue for most everyone here is big game hunting for trophies. Pretty sure most have made it clear they have little problems with hunting and fishing in general. YOU are the one that are getting so worked up over it that you're playing the victim role and lashing out and frankly, doing very little to help your cause.

The extremist in your side of the argument are what make me angry. They play at being moderate to advance the agenda. I dont gave a problem with you if you are not one of them. I personally do not like hunting that is done just to put a trophy on the wall either, but if you give an inch the extremists take it all. That is a problem for me. I don't hear you saying that only trophy hunting is bad, all I hear are the jerks characterizing ALL hunters as sadistic killers. They can screw off.
 
The extremist in your side of the argument are what make me angry. They play at being moderate to advance the agenda. I dont gave a problem with you if you are not one of them. I personally do not like hunting that is done just to put a trophy on the wall either, but if you give an inch the extremists take it all. That is a problem for me. I don't hear you saying that only trophy hunting is bad, all I hear are the jerks characterizing ALL hunters as sadistic killers. They can screw off.

Then we agree way more than we disagree.
 

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