Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[Darth_Vol]

Those prior 15 years somehow get forgotten

Or selectively ignored, particularly the NC State days...

 

[volmanNC]

My choice does not mean diddly squat. Only Danny White's choice matters here but to answer your question I like Kellie and the culture she is wanting to establish.

So my choice would be for her to suddenly become the second coming of CPS, John Wooden, and Phil Jackson and lead the LVs to ten straight undefeated seasons.

Failing that, I would like her to find the magic moment she had in her 3rd season when the LVs were 18-1 (against a pretty tough schedule). She can do it...

Actually your choice does matter!! In fact it matters even more than Danny White’s. If there is no support and the money stops coming to the university then Mr. White’s decision will be made for him. For me, I will no longer support this team with my vote. I expect better! Kellie can’t do it, period!! The only magic which could remotely happen would be for the Lady Vols to do by themselves.

 

[Go aeiou]

As I said before the season, anything less than a Sweet 16 finish could be a trigger for a coaching change or putting Kellie on a very short leash. In reality no standard is absolute. For example, if the LVs pulled a miracle and won the conference or the SEC tournament that would probably keep her in the job even if they stumbled in opening weekend in the tournament. But, in general, they have to at least match last season's outcomes. Now how long would UTAD tolerate a steady state of being reliably decent but not great?

Old timers will remember the Don Devoe years on the men's side; lots of 20 win seasons but not much tournament success and then the team slipped a bit from that consistent level. So, Devoe was fired and replaced with Wade Houston (who on paper looked like:: a pretty good hire), which began a long period of being lost in the basketball wilderness.

So, if change comes best be sure about the replacement.

Wade Houston: Wade was hired to get his son, Allan to sign with UT. Allan eventually played a couple of years in the NBA.
Wade played at Louisville and was an assitant coach there before UT.
I recall most people thinking he likely would not be a good hire.
65-90 record. 5 years.

 

[glv98]

Those prior 15 years somehow get forgotten

Or selectively ignored, particularly the NC State days...

Those are such self serving takes, so obviously in search of the one millionth "TOLD YOU SO!"

No one forgot or ignored KJH record and everyone knew she was a ricky hire who was a compromise. Hard as it is to believe, that was not exclusive knowledge that ya'll uncovered. But she was/is who we have and so some of us were kinda hoping things would work out,, against all available current evidence.

I totally agree the thread of that hope is thinner than thin at this point. Thought last year was the tell since she had Jordy and Rickea. Thought this year was the absolute last hope bc she had Rickea back and important portal pieces. Now, after the super disappointing preseason, the thread of hope is thin as it gets.

But I'm still not ashamed to hope against hope things get better for the SEC season. Doesn't mean I'm ignorant of the facts, nor that I think KJH is the coach to get us to the promised land. I just want to watch a better team the rest of the season. Simple as that.

 

[knoxvol52]

Wade Houston: Wade was hired to get his son, Allan to sign with UT. Allan eventually played a couple of years in the NBA.
Wade played at Louisville and was an assitant coach there. before UT.
I recall most people thinking he likely would not be a good hire.
65-90 record. 5 years.

Believe Allan played in NBA for more than a couple of years....

 

[Coach Jumper]

Here here glv

I know I've been tough on her and will be tough on anyone who coaches the Lady Vols. But I want nothing more than her success because her success means the Lady Vols success.

 

[Darth_Vol]

But I'm still not ashamed to hope against hope things get better for the SEC season. Doesn't mean I'm ignorant of the facts, nor that I think KJH is the coach to get us to the promised land. I just want to watch a better team the rest of the season. Simple as that.

That's fine, but still brings us back to the original question:

Lets assume the team does turn this season around and at least gets an invite to the NCAAT. Would you support keeping the coach for a few more years to maintain this subpar level?

Once again, definition of insanity....

 

[glv98]

That's fine, but still brings us back to the original question:



Once again, definition of insanity....

Honestly, much as I hate it, if all we can manage is to scrape out a tourney invite and lose early, I think it's time to move on. Back to S16, tougher decision, but to me, yes, probably painfully time to look to the future. Too consistently underwhelming.

Regardless of what I think, reality is earliest it would happen would be after next year, which is shaping up to be alot like the preseason this year. And even then it would depend on who's available to replace her. It's a tough call, but a couple more years of tough times w KJH is probably better than yet another iffy hire. The next hire has to be right, even if that means he/she has a tougher rebuild.

The plague of devastating injuries is not KJH fault, but the lack of recruiting to build a sufficient roster to account for injuries is. To me, that's the basis of KJH problem. Recruiting can cover up alot of in game coaching flaws.

 

[Coach Jumper]

That's fine, but still brings us back to the original question:



Once again, definition of insanity....

The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again, expecting different results
and here you are,
trying to sway the real lady vol fans from supporting the team and its coach,,,again, and again, and again,,,,

Get the picture?
NM, insanity prevents this from happening for you, it seems

 

[glv98]

Wade Houston: Wade was hired to get his son, Allan to sign with UT. Allan eventually played a couple of years in the NBA.
Wade played at Louisville and was an assitant coach there. before UT.
I recall most people thinking he likely would not be a good hire.
65-90 record. 5 years.

Believe Allan played in NBA for more than a couple of years....

Ya think? Allan Houston played 12 yrs in the NBA, went to a finals, was a 2 time All Star and an Olympic gold medalist.

Doen't mean Wade Houston wasn't a bad hire, but would the truth work just as well? Since 2016 though, just say whatever fits your narrative bc 'alternative facts' rule the day.

 

[Go aeiou]

Believe Allan played in NBA for more than a couple of years....

12 years
Pistons and Knicks.
Thanks

 

[knoxvol52]

Ya think? Allan Houston played 12 yrs in the NBA, went to a finals, was a 2 time All Star and an Olympic gold medalist.

Doen't mean Wade Houston wasn't a bad hire, but would the truth work just as well? Since 2016 though, just say whatever fits your narrative bc 'alternative facts' rule the day.

Lol, wasn't even replying to your @$$, I was replying to the couple of seasons for AH....

But you keep tooting your own horn ....have a good day...

Never did say Wade Houston was a good hire ,just as I never stated KH was one either...

 

[Coach Jumper]

Lol, wasn't even replying to your @$$, I was replying to the couple of seasons for AH....

But you keep tooting your on horn ....have a good day...

Never did say Wade Houston was a good hire ,just as I never stated KH was one either...

Keep tooting your "on" horn, as well

 

[knoxvol52]

Keep tooting your "on" horn, as well

Lol, the spelling patrol is in full force ....

You have a good day as well...

BTW, I corrected the spelling just for you....

 

[glv98]

The one I think might be in trouble is Sam. Whether she deserves the recruiting heat or not, roster development and planning is just etrocious. Next yrs roster, if everyone who can stay does, will include 8 srs, 2 jrs, 1 soph, 1 frosh. By position, there are 8 guards, 3 posts (if TK comes back), and 1 forward. Or if JH and KS got to play true positions it would be 3 sr forwards and 1 sr post. The one recruit for 2025 is a guard.

I know the portal has lots of possibilities for repairing the canyon sized holes, but this is a really shaky foundation. Something has to change, probably after this year.

 

[Wilk5]

Remember the days of them releasing the video of andraya carter and bashara graves recruiting class.. how times have changed

 

[Coach Jumper]

The one I think might be in trouble is Sam. Whether she deserves the recruiting heat or not, roster development and planning is just etrocious. Next yrs roster, if everyone who can stay does, will include 8 srs, 2 jrs, 1 soph, 1 frosh. By position, there are 8 guards, 3 posts (if TK comes back), and 1 forward. Or if JH and KS got to play true positions it would be 3 sr forwards and 1 sr post. The one recruit for 2025 is a guard.

I know the portal has lots of possibilities for repairing the canyon sized holes, but this is a really shaky foundation. Something has to change, probably after this year.

I am pretty sure Sam works with the Shooting Guards and Small forwards (as far as I can tell)
She does not work with the Power Forwards and Centers,,,which is where our biggest concern is,,,, JMO.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

The one I think might be in trouble is Sam. Whether she deserves the recruiting heat or not, roster development and planning is just etrocious. Next yrs roster, if everyone who can stay does, will include 8 srs, 2 jrs, 1 soph, 1 frosh. By position, there are 8 guards, 3 posts (if TK comes back), and 1 forward. Or if JH and KS got to play true positions it would be 3 sr forwards and 1 sr post. The one recruit for 2025 is a guard.

I know the portal has lots of possibilities for repairing the canyon sized holes, but this is a really shaky foundation. Something has to change, probably after this year.

When coaches think they are in trouble, one of their saving moves is to fire assistants and blame them to buy themselves another season. (yeah coaching can be a cutthroat business). I agree Sam could be a prime target, IF Kellie feels some heat.

And she may make no move but what happens at the end of this season will be telling about where she thinks her status is.

 

[glv98]

I am pretty sure Sam works with the Shooting Guards and Small forwards (as far as I can tell)
She does not work with the Power Forwards and Centers,,,which is where our biggest concern is,,,, JMO.

Sam bc of being the recruiting coordinator, not position coach. And the recruiting mess is probably not her fault, NIL, etc, but it's ultimately her responsibility. Of course Sam could say, "but Rickea x2" and that's true. But overall the record's spotty at best.

When coaches thinks they are in trouble, one of their saving moves is to fire assistants and blame them to buy themselves another season. (yeah coaching can be a cutthroat business). I agree Sam could be a prime target, IF Kellie feels some heat.

And she may make no move but what happens at the end of this season will be telling about where she thinks her status is.

Yes firing assistants is shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic plus KJH already did it just a few yrs ago. But it is a signal that problems are seen and can be a time buyer while the right head coach is found.

 

[Dansky]

The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again, expecting different results
and here you are,
trying to sway the real lady vol fans from supporting the team and its coach,,,again, and again, and again,,,,

Get the picture?
NM, insanity prevents this from happening for you, it seems

Insanity might be ignoring the futility of the situation. I believe everyone wanted Kellie to be successful, but it’s not working out at all.

 

[Go aeiou]

Sam bc of being the recruiting coordinator, not position coach. And the recruiting mess is probably not her fault, NIL, etc, but it's ultimately her responsibility. Of course Sam could say, "but Rickea x2" and that's true. But overall the record's spotty at best.

Yes firing assistants is shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic plus KJH already did it just a few yrs ago. But it is a signal that problems are seen and can be a time buyer while the right head coach is found.

Never heard that saying before. Ha, or can't remember.
Either way it's a classic.

 

[LadyVol1908]

Honestly, much as I hate it, if all we can manage is to scrape out a tourney invite and lose early, I think it's time to move on. Back to S16, tougher decision, but to me, yes, probably painfully time to look to the future. Too consistently underwhelming.

Regardless of what I think, reality is earliest it would happen would be after next year, which is shaping up to be alot like the preseason this year. And even then it would depend on who's available to replace her. It's a tough call, but a couple more years of tough times w KJH is probably better than yet another iffy hire. The next hire has to be right, even if that means he/she has a tougher rebuild.

The plague of devastating injuries is not KJH fault, but the lack of recruiting to build a sufficient roster to account for injuries is. To me, that's the basis of KJH problem. Recruiting can cover up alot of in game coaching flaws.

But….I thought we had the portal?! The people told us not to worry about high school recruiting because we were so good in the portal. Been hearing that for 3 years, recruiting can’t be an issue right?!

 

[Jep]

If you are not a NegaVol concerning the Lady Vols, then you are NOT a true supporter of Tenn having a great team.
I guess some people with little concern for the program can remain happy with this very low level of performance.
As for myself, I want more !!

What is more important? Having a former vol for a coach or WINNING!

 

[Coach Jumper]

What is more important? Having a former vol for a coach or WINNING!

Well gee, Uncle Jep,,,winning!

 

[madtownvol]

Wade Houston: Wade was hired to get his son, Allan to sign with UT. Allan eventually played a couple of years in the NBA.
Wade played at Louisville and was an assitant coach there before UT.
I recall most people thinking he likely would not be a good hire.
65-90 record. 5 years.

And your point with respect to my post is?