killer did not listen to talk radio.

Again, we aren't sure if that evidence is valid. Regardless of how you feel about it, there is a chance that the friend, as a source, could be lying.

I believe outside influence played a small role in this because he attempted to kill a politician. We, as American people, have a general way of getting our political info. Some use internet, some use radio, and some poor souls use the TV. We aren't in these meetings, these senate votes, these legislative decisions. We only hear or read about them.

If Loughner hated this woman so much that he felt she needed to die, where did his 3-year obsession come from? Giffords was a pretty criticized politician given her change in political affiliation as well as her changes in policy. I'm sure there was lots of commentary by various forms of media in AZ, and I'm sure part of his obsession included reading news stories about her. It helped him conclude a seemingly solid opinion of her, upon which he acted.

Now, were these sources right or left? Probably both, if it were the case. He was markedly atheist, smoked weed, and had a history of principled stands.

I would say I'm giving more speculation than fabrication, fellas. Nothing here is fact, but it's certainly not fantasy. There's no way of indicating that this is impossible.

True but that sure is a tiny limb to climb out on.

Again, the reaction you are getting is based in the extreme zeal with which left pundits have sought to blame right wing rhetoric for this tragedy. Is it possible? Sure I guess. Is there any evidence? Nope.

Is it responsible to go ahead and claim that is the cause? Clearly not. Check out Krugman's piece that came out before we even knew who the shooter was. He all out blamed Limbaugh, Palin, Beck and the TP. Shameful IMHO.
 
Again, we aren't sure if that evidence is valid. Regardless of how you feel about it, there is a chance that the friend, as a source, could be lying.

I believe outside influence played a small role in this because he attempted to kill a politician. We, as American people, have a general way of getting our political info. Some use internet, some use radio, and some poor souls use the TV. We aren't in these meetings, these senate votes, these legislative decisions. We only hear or read about them.

If Loughner hated this woman so much that he felt she needed to die, where did his 3-year obsession come from? Giffords was a pretty criticized politician given her change in political affiliation as well as her changes in policy. I'm sure there was a lot of commentary by various forms of media in AZ, and I'm sure part of his obsession included reading news stories about her. It helped him conclude a seemingly solid opinion of her, upon which he acted.

Now, were these sources right or left? Probably both, if it were the case. He was markedly atheist, smoked weed, and had a history of principled stands.

I would say I'm giving more speculation than fabrication, fellas. Nothing here is fact, but it's certainly not fantasy. There's no way of indicating that this is impossible.
So being batcrap crazy doesn't provide enough motive anymore....
 
So being batcrap crazy doesn't provide enough motive anymore....

exactly. waiting 3 years doesn't mean something said that day or weeks prior triggered him. that's not the way it works with crazy people. one day they are relatively fine, the next off their rocker.
 
True but that sure is a tiny limb to climb out on.

Again, the reaction you are getting is based in the extreme zeal with which left pundits have sought to blame right wing rhetoric for this tragedy. Is it possible? Sure I guess. Is there any evidence? Nope.

Is it responsible to go ahead and claim that is the cause? Clearly not. Check out Krugman's piece that came out before we even knew who the shooter was. He all out blamed Limbaugh, Palin, Beck and the TP. Shameful IMHO.

Remember, I've never said that any of my opinions on this matter are fact.

What is fact is that we know next to nothing as to why this happened or what caused it. Honestly, it will probably end in dismissing him as a loon and the left will look bad for blaming the right just as the right will look bad for using the accusations against the left.

Basically, captain, we're headed straight for another American ideological sh*tstorm.
 
If Loughner hated this woman so much that he felt she needed to die, where did his 3-year obsession come from?

It is my understanding that back in 2007(?) he had an actual negative interaction with her at some kind of town hall event or some similar gathering. Even if one were to assume outside influence pushing him over there is plenty of evidence that supports he had a personal issue with his victim.
 
Remember, I've never said that any of my opinions on this matter are fact.

What is fact is that we know next to nothing as to why this happened or what caused it. Honestly, it will probably end in dismissing him as a loon and the left will look bad for blaming the right just as the right will look bad for using the accusations against the left.

Basically, captain, we're headed straight for another American ideological sh*tstorm.

Where has the right made accusations agaisnt the left here?
 
only if you're a muslim gunman, well, on second thought...

actually a valid comparison. i still don't see the difference between this guys beliefs i.e. connection to the right than i do with teh fort hood guy's connection to the left.
 
Where has the right made accusations agaisnt the left here?

"will"

I would be thoroughly surprised if the right doesn't use these exaggerated accusations from the left against them. It's doubtful that anything good will come from the left accusing the right wing media of causing the shooting.
 
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Remember, I've never said that any of my opinions on this matter are fact.

What is fact is that we know next to nothing as to why this happened or what caused it. Honestly, it will probably end in dismissing him as a loon and the left will look bad for blaming the right just as the right will look bad for using the accusations against the left.

Basically, captain, we're headed straight for another American ideological sh*tstorm.

How would you react if Palin wrote an editorial suggesting that the shooter was motivated by the overreach of the Obama administration?

We can't say she is wrong - particularly if it's her opinion. What if other righties chimed in and made claims that left commentary of all forms created this climate?

Would you buy in? Would you consider that a responsible and appropriate reaction to the tragedy? Would you feel that it showed real concern for the victims or was more of an attempt to gain political advantage?
 
How would you react if Palin wrote an editorial suggesting that the shooter was motivated by the overreach of the Obama administration?

We can't say she is wrong - particularly if it's her opinion. What if other righties chimed in and made claims that left commentary of all forms created this climate?

Would you buy in? Would you consider that a responsible and appropriate reaction to the tragedy? Would you feel that it showed real concern for the victims or was more of an attempt to gain political advantage?

Not entirely. Like I said, I believe both sides played a minor role. Not just the effin' right!

Plus, this has been a PR war between both sides since this weekend.
 
why don't we agree that this guy was a nut and there is evil in the world. judge him on his on his actions and merits.
 
why don't we agree that this guy was a nut and there is evil in the world. judge him on his on his actions and merits.

Or we could continue the discussion instead of ending the thread you started.

But I'ma have to bounce for now. I have a gig to play and a new apartment to look at. Later all.
 
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Not entirely. Like I said, I believe both sides played a minor role. Not just the effin' right!

Plus, this has been a PR war between both sides since this weekend.

Sorry, I never picked up the "not just the effin' right" part. :hi:

In my view the PR war while distasteful has been one of the left making the accusation and the right in defense mode.

Overall I wish both sides would STFU on all the speculation and deal with the facts.
 
Sorry, I never picked up the "not just the effin' right" part. :hi:

In my view the PR war while distasteful has been one of the left making the accusation and the right in defense mode.

Overall I wish both sides would STFU on all the speculation and deal with the facts.

even if the kid was an avid beck follower and believed beck was telling him to kill the woman it woudl be absurd to blame beck. hell there are people who have thought that tom and jerry were telling them to kill people. now if beck came out and said "i want this person dead" and the guy went and did it then i could see the arguement.
 
Sorry, I never picked up the "not just the effin' right" part. :hi:

In my view the PR war while distasteful has been one of the left making the accusation and the right in defense mode.

Overall I wish both sides would STFU on all the speculation and deal with the facts.

i think they shouldn't have made the accusations for political points. talk radio should defend themselves from the hypocrites.
 
"will"

I would be thoroughly surprised if the right doesn't use these exaggerated accusations from the left against them. It's doubtful that anything good will come from the left accusing the right wing media of causing the shooting.

You basically just said that the right defending itself against the left is an attack on the left and then you made the first statement I can agree with.
 
Sorry, I never picked up the "not just the effin' right" part. :hi:

In my view the PR war while distasteful has been one of the left making the accusation and the right in defense mode.

Overall I wish both sides would STFU on all the speculation and deal with the facts.

That's how I'm seeing it as well. If there had never been so much blame assigned (almost immediately) from the left what point would the right have in saying much of anything?
 
"will"

I would be thoroughly surprised if the right doesn't use these exaggerated accusations from the left against them. It's doubtful that anything good will come from the left accusing the right wing media of causing the shooting.

Use as in defending themselves?

Im not sure I have found the factors where the right went into the aftermath trying to find political ground. As you stated, and I agree that without something to be able to pin this to (the rhetoric that is) the left has little to gain and could even lose.

What sympathy or ground that the right obtains will have more to do with the left screaming "wolf" with no evidence other than opinion.
 
even if the kid was an avid beck follower and believed beck was telling him to kill the woman it woudl be absurd to blame beck. hell there are people who have thought that tom and jerry were telling them to kill people. now if beck came out and said "i want this person dead" and the guy went and did it then i could see the arguement.

Don't forget dogs - apparently they talk to folks too.
 
true. crazy people have been finding reasons to kill people long before glen beck and sara palin.
 

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