killer did not listen to talk radio.

[droski]

Read up on that guy... he exhibited a lot of immensely sketchy behavior over the past few years. It was obvious that the light wasn't on anymore.

and how many people who exhibit sketchy behavior actually go and kill someone? 1 in a thousand? maybe?

 

[droski]

Call me pretentious, but I don't really have any friends who are so mentally FUBAR that they can't hold jobs, go to school, or have social lives (or even walk dogs, dammit). It just happened that way.

i had plenty of acquaintances in college who certainly could be put in that category. i don't remember him saying he was BFF with this guy.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

and how many people who exhibit sketchy behavior actually go and kill someone? 1 in a thousand? maybe?

Psychotic episodes tend to require triggers. The probability of all the right triggers being in place at the right time would be a lot lower than 1//1000.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

i had plenty of acquaintances in college who certainly could be put in that category. i don't remember him saying he was BFF with this guy.

From what he knew, he played it off as though he knew the guy relatively well.

 

[lawgator1]

Beck, Palin, the TP, and talk radio hate government. They think the current leadership overreaches to the point of being unconstitutional. They assail the treasury department and warn that our economic and monetary system is illusory and defunct.

The TP runs a candidate that says that people are going to resort to "Second Amendment remedies" against Democratic politicians who support bigger government, and specifically reference health care reform. Beck, in particular, is fond of alarmist rhetoric. Buy seeds and gold for the coming economic and social meltdown caused by the Democrats and big government. Be prepared to fight for your survival. Beck puts up chalk boards trying to draw odd linkage between words and symbols and government officials (all Dems).

This young man lives in Tuscon. The closest Democratic member of Congress there is Giffords. She just narrowly defeated a TPer who blasted her and held shooting range rallies. Her district was named by Palin as one to go after. She voted for health care reform. The shooter had been to a rally of hers and asked about symbols and words and had been ranting in other places about unconstitutional actions by government.

The shooter hates big government, the treasury, and he thinks there are conspiracies amongst government officials to deny him his constitutional rights. He buys a gun and shoots the Democratic Congresswoman at a rally five miles from his house.

Gee, can't see how anyone might suspect some connection there, somewhere.

 

[volinbham]

I've only been up for a couple of hours, but I don't recall reading that earlier. I'll go back and check.

Anyway, I think that hostile rhetoric can do wild things to those who are already crazy enough to kill in the name of principal. As far as passive nutcases such as myself, no. I'm not going to heavily distort what I hear on the radio and use it as an excuse to murder innocent people.

So now we go back to the OP - there is zero evidence that the shooter listened to talk radio and some evidence that he did not.

So how is one to conclude that talk radio did anything to this guy?

In the larger sense, the LG post you agreed with in it's entirety suggested that the problem is rhetoric from the right wing and NOT the left wing. Do you agree?

I would imagine most of us responding to you see zero evidence that talk radio played a role in this particular case and dispute the notion that the right is vitriolic/hate speech while the left is not.

 

[droski]

Beck, Palin, the TP, and talk radio hate government. They think the current leadership overreaches to the point of being unconstitutional. They assail the treasury department and warn that our economic and monetary system is illusory and defunct.

The TP runs a candidate that says that people are going to resort to "Second Amendment remedies" against Democratic politicians who support bigger government, and specifically reference health care reform. Beck, in particular, is fond of alarmist rhetoric. Buy seeds and gold for the coming economic and social meltdown caused by the Democrats and big government. Be prepared to fight for your survival. Beck puts up chalk boards trying to draw odd linkage between words and symbols and government officials (all Dems).

This young man lives in Tuscon. The closest Democratic member of Congress there is Giffords. She just narrowly defeated a TPer who blasted her and held shooting range rallies. Her district was named by Palin as one to go after. She voted for health care reform. The shooter had been to a rally of hers and asked about symbols and words and had been ranting in other places about unconstitutional actions by government.

The shooter hates big government, the treasury, and he thinks there are conspiracies amongst government officials to deny him his constitutional rights. He buys a gun and shoots the Democratic Congresswoman at a rally five miles from his house.

Gee, can't see how anyone might suspect some connection there, somewhere.

strange that he became obsessed with her before the formation of the tea party or before palin ever mentioned the ladies name. but let's not let facts get in the way.

 

[lawgator1]

So now we go back to the OP - there is zero evidence that the shooter listened to talk radio and some evidence that he did not.

So how is one to conclude that talk radio did anything to this guy?

In the larger sense, the LG post you agreed with in it's entirety suggested that the problem is rhetoric from the right wing and NOT the left wing. Do you agree?

I would imagine most of us responding to you see zero evidence that talk radio played a role in this particular case and dispute the notion that the right is vitriolic/hate speech while the left is not.

You can validly attack overly harsh form the left and I will agree.

But let's not lose sight of how awful things have been from the right in particular for the last few years.

One does not excuse the other.

 

[lawgator1]

strange that he became obsessed with her before the formation of the tea party or before palin ever mentioned the ladies name. but let's not let facts get in the way.

Reaching.

 

[droski]

You can validly attack overly harsh form the left and I will agree.

But let's not lose sight of how awful things have been from the right in particular for the last few years.

One does not excuse the other.

so i assume you blame the rhetoric from the left for the fort hood shooting?

 

[volinbham]

Beck, Palin, the TP, and talk radio hate government. They think the current leadership overreaches to the point of being unconstitutional. They assail the treasury department and warn that our economic and monetary system is illusory and defunct.

False claim - they do not hate government. They prefer a particular style of government.

The TP runs a candidate that says that people are going to resort to "Second Amendment remedies" against Democratic politicians who support bigger government, and specifically reference health care reform. Beck, in particular, is fond of alarmist rhetoric. Buy seeds and gold for the coming economic and social meltdown caused by the Democrats and big government. Be prepared to fight for your survival. Beck puts up chalk boards trying to draw odd linkage between words and symbols and government officials (all Dems).

Dems are routinely alarmist. Many claimed Bush was not their president and called for regime change - holy crap; they are expressing anger towards the government and questioning it's legitimacy.

This young man lives in Tuscon. The closest Democratic member of Congress there is Giffords. She just narrowly defeated a TPer who blasted her and held shooting range rallies. Her district was named by Palin as one to go after. She voted for health care reform. The shooter had been to a rally of hers and asked about symbols and words and had been ranting in other places about unconstitutional actions by government.

The shooter hates big government, the treasury, and he thinks there are conspiracies amongst government officials to deny him his constitutional rights. He buys a gun and shoots the Democratic Congresswoman at a rally five miles from his house.

Gee, can't see how anyone might suspect some connection there, somewhere.

The first piece of evidence you need is proof he ever listened to Beck, Palin, Limbaugh or the TP.

 

[azVolFan]

I've only been up for a couple of hours, but I don't recall reading that earlier. I'll go back and check.

Anyway, I think that hostile rhetoric can do wild things to those who are already crazy enough to kill in the name of principal. As far as passive nutcases such as myself, no. I'm not going to heavily distort what I hear on the radio and use it as an excuse to murder innocent people.

All we have been trying to point out is that there is no evidence that his influences are far right. He could very well be far left and relative to him, the congresswoman was far right. There is actually more evidence (if you can judge a person by the books he reads) that he was far left and was influenced thusly.

This whole crappy discourse that we are all in now were caused by that *&%&^& Pima County sheriff. I think many of us more right leaning folks are outraged by what he has said and seeing more people like yourself pile on is making us just more angry.

 

[Lexvol]

So did talk radio hosts listen to too much heavy metal in th 70's and 80's. Surely something happened to them to cause all of this. Then you also have to ask what happened to the members of the heavy metal bands that would cause them to promote such violence. Find that cause, and then look for its cause.

In the end is it really all about getting into women's britches? That makes the world go round you know.

 

[droski]

Reaching.

how is that reaching?

 

[volinbham]

You can validly attack overly harsh form the left and I will agree.

But let's not lose sight of how awful things have been from the right in particular for the last few years.

One does not excuse the other.

You are so biased it's absurd. The left was horrible during the Bush years and has continued to be. The right is likewise horrible.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Reaching.

how is that? and how do you know?

 

[droski]

You are so biased it's absurd. The left was horrible during the Bush years and has continued to be. The right is likewise horrible.

the fort hood killer thought that the war was wrong, was about oil, and that americans were unfairly going after muslims. he also hated bush and called him an idiot. can't imagine any liberals with similar views right?

 

[azVolFan]

Reaching.

I think fiction writer would be a better career choice for you.

 

[volinbham]

how is that? and how do you know?

maybe he means before the original Tea Party - on that he's right since dude became obsessed with Giffords well after the 1700s.

 

[BeecherVol]

Beck, Palin, the TP, and talk radio hate government. They think the current leadership overreaches to the point of being unconstitutional. They assail the treasury department and warn that our economic and monetary system is illusory and defunct.

The TP runs a candidate that says that people are going to resort to "Second Amendment remedies" against Democratic politicians who support bigger government, and specifically reference health care reform. Beck, in particular, is fond of alarmist rhetoric. Buy seeds and gold for the coming economic and social meltdown caused by the Democrats and big government. Be prepared to fight for your survival. Beck puts up chalk boards trying to draw odd linkage between words and symbols and government officials (all Dems).

This young man lives in Tuscon. The closest Democratic member of Congress there is Giffords. She just narrowly defeated a TPer who blasted her and held shooting range rallies. Her district was named by Palin as one to go after. She voted for health care reform. The shooter had been to a rally of hers and asked about symbols and words and had been ranting in other places about unconstitutional actions by government.

The shooter hates big government, the treasury, and he thinks there are conspiracies amongst government officials to deny him his constitutional rights. He buys a gun and shoots the Democratic Congresswoman at a rally five miles from his house.

Gee, can't see how anyone might suspect some connection there, somewhere.

If not, we'll just attach it to the next one.

RealClearPolitics - Video - Dem Congressman: If Violent Rhetoric Didn't Cause This Shooting, It Will Cause Next One

 

[BigPapaVol]

maybe he means before the original Tea Party - on that he's right since dude became obsessed with Giffords well after the 1700s.

consider me put in my place.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

So now we go back to the OP - there is zero evidence that the shooter listened to talk radio and some evidence that he did not.

So how is one to conclude that talk radio did anything to this guy?

In the larger sense, the LG post you agreed with in it's entirety suggested that the problem is rhetoric from the right wing and NOT the left wing. Do you agree?

I would imagine most of us responding to you see zero evidence that talk radio played a role in this particular case and dispute the notion that the right is vitriolic/hate speech while the left is not.

Again, we aren't sure if that evidence is valid. Regardless of how you feel about it, there is a chance that the friend, as a source, could be lying.

I believe outside influence played a small role in this because he attempted to kill a politician. We, as American people, have a general way of getting our political info. Some use internet, some use radio, and some poor souls use the TV. We aren't in these meetings, these senate votes, these legislative decisions. We only hear or read about them.

If Loughner hated this woman so much that he felt she needed to die, where did his 3-year obsession come from? Giffords was a pretty criticized politician given her change in political affiliation as well as her changes in policy. I'm sure there was a lot of commentary by various forms of media in AZ, and I'm sure part of his obsession included reading news stories about her. It helped him conclude a seemingly solid opinion of her, upon which he acted.

Now, were these sources right or left? Probably both, if it were the case. He was markedly atheist, smoked weed, and had a history of principled stands.

I would say I'm giving more speculation than fabrication, fellas. Nothing here is fact, but it's certainly not fantasy. There's no way of indicating that this is impossible.

 

[volinbham]

consider me put in my place.

:super epic facepalm: learn your history and get out your back door to a walkable community full of real world data, gorillas and high levels of happiness.

 

[Lexvol]

You are so biased it's absurd. The left was horrible during the Bush years and has continued to be. The right is likewise horrible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_President_(2006_film)

A sequel while a Dem is in office is unlikely.

 

[CountVolcula]

You are so biased it's absurd. The left was horrible during the Bush years and has continued to be. The right is likewise horrible.