Last years record was not an reflection of talent

#152
#152
now that i have some time to go into detail.

yes, coaching is a big deal. but, you will usually find (and i can give several examples) that when a particular unit is terrible, it isn't just the coaching.

take florida's offense. florida's offense has been very well coached this season and they still are far from a powerful offensive unit. the staff has used everyone's gifts to their best potential and has used some creativity to gain production. but, at the end of the day, even with quality coaching and improved play.....it's a mediocre offense.

same holds true for the 2009 vol offense. yeah, it was better than the 2008 clawfense. a lot of improvement was made. but, it wasn't a very good offense either.

florida state fans thought when they get rid of jeff bowden, their offense would take off. it didn't.

when a unit is poor, as in ranking in the 100's poor.....a coaching change or a year of development can help. but, odds are there is also a talent problem and i believe it exists at every level of tennessee's defense.

as for 2011 vs. 2012....., the stats in 2011 are deceiving. as i joked at one time, the tennessee defense is the only defense that ever made john brantley look good. they gave up big plays throughout 2011. it just pales in comparison to 2012. lord knows, it has been years since tennessee was able to harrass an opposing qb. and if you are thinking, yeah, but not against akron and troy.....montana scored on an 80 yard td pass.

in addition, offenses throughout the league improved.
 
#153
#153
Let's hope next year won't be a reflection of our talent either....maybe we will do a 180
 
#154
#154
bamawriter said:
Actually, your secondary might be the worst in the SEC, and not simply because of coaching. Your LBs are in the back of the pack in the SEC as well.

No doubt, Tennessee had more talent than their record would indicate. But there are still some major issues that go beyond coaching.
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Spoken from the catbird seat. Hopefully the world doesn't end before we are kicking that a## again.
 
#155
#155
dlw4n said:
J Hunter had 1000+ yards and 9 TDs. Claiming that replacing him won't be painful is a bit of a joke. That's one of the more productive WR years we've had in a long time.
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Just think of how many more yards he would have had if he hadn't run backwards after catches or just flopped down after a catch in traffic. For real JMO he played scared.
 
#156
#156
To all of those that keep saying the defense sucks from a player point of view and that we have non-SEC talent , I will offer three points. You are entitled to your opinions but these are facts and not opinions
1) the easiest point ..most of the guys you saw on the field were nationally recruited. Most of them had offer sheets that contained other elite programs. I would expect a couple of busts ...but not 11.
2) fundaments were poorly taught . Tackeling technique , pad leverage , coverage technique , press skills, effort ...all marginal or absent.
3 ) the schematics of the d were flawed and tinkered with . You had LBs lining up on slots?? The back side was routinly in the wrong coverage for what the front side was doing. The backside was confused as to alignment and often did not adjust to very basic things.
They would line up in zone looks and then try to cover man , already 3 steps behind ..they would look slow. They would line up in man and then try to cover zone ..loosing receivers in the confusion . They would often blitz without pressing the receivers. The terrible pad leverage up front did not help generate a pass rush at all. Zone skills were terrible...feet should never be planted .

I think these same guys , minus some of the depth an talent were 200% better the year before.
A good technical coach can improve the fundamentals, but them in a gap control , simple fast scheme , and this defense will be very good.
 
#157
#157
FittyElevem said:
Tennessee has a 6 game stretch next season that would test any team. Please remind yourself of that from time to time. You will talk yourself into us having a 10-2 record next season and be disappointed when it doesn't happen.
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Even as a fan, I would rather go into every game believing that we will win and be disappointed with a loss versus going in and expecting to lose.

That might make me stupid, but I've only given up once on Tennessee in my life - during the Arkansas game in 1998. Never again.
 
#158
#158
No way our talent was as bad as we showed out. We had a DC who i'm not sure he even knew what he was doing. And a head coach hardly capable of coaching pee wee ball.
 
#161
#161
99gator said:
I understand. I agree.

But, let me give throw a possibility at you.

On numerous occasions, people did line up correctly. People did react to the ball properly. Yet, the big play still happened or otger issues showed up.
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Yes, and on numerous occasions, plays were stuffed behind the line of scrimmage and passes were broken up.

Yes, generally when people were out of position.

On some occasions, UT's defense responded correctly and were still beaten. That too happens to every team.
 
#162
#162
bamawriter said:
If Tennessee had gotten gashed for a few big runs, I'd agree with you. But Tennessee got run on time after time after time in part because of bad playcalling and a terrible scheme, but in part because UT's LBs and secondary were too slow to limit the plays.
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UT's new head coach mentioned simplifying the schemes so that players could play faster. I wonder why?
 
#165
#165
bamawriter said:
Actually, SEC offenses were better on average this year over last. So that has something to do with it.

And you are arguing a case I didn't make. I never said they became less talented. Wilcox did a better job with average talent than Sunseri did. Tennessee still gave up big plays under Wilcox, but not as many. By being in position, the Vols stopped most plays before they turned into foot races, but when they weren't in the right spot, they never had the speed to recover. Just because they did a better job up front doesn't mean they were any faster with Wilcox as DC.
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So you're making basically the same argument that the rest of us are? That UT's defense isn't spectacular, but better than their '12 play would indicate?

Was this all a misunderstanding? Can we all group hug it out? Come on... I'll start...
 
#166
#166
There are some major problems on the defensive side, particularly the secondary and no pass rush.
 
#167
#167
Ok, here's a different way to look at this.

Where would Tennessee rank in overall talent in the sec?

What sec teams does Tennessee have a better roster than?
 
#169
#169
99gator said:
Ok, here's a different way to look at this.

Where would Tennessee rank in overall talent in the sec?

What sec teams does Tennessee have a better roster than?
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Defensively? They have better players than UK, Vandy, Mizzou, and Arkansas at a minimum. They are in the same range talent wise as Auburn, MSU, Ole Miss, and not that far behind TAM.

Their top end therefore would be somewhere around 6th. They should be no worse than 9th based on talent alone.

Again, Sunseri had most of the same players Wilcox had plus some talented new guys. Defensive performance dropped off an incredible amount.
 
#170
#170
All I have to say is our talent was OK---it wasn't the best but it wasn't the worst either. Unfortunately, the coaching and administrative decisions were sheer incompetence. It's easy to win when you are loaded with talent like Alabama or LSU. Heck, Les Miles is your evidence--he's no coaching savant but LSU is top tier because of quality depth and depth that is talented. Funny thing is--Dooley would have saved himself if we would have won one to two more games this year. The fact is he was horrible and the talent was average--they didn't bail him out either. Jones big plus coming in was his teams seemed to
achieve and overachieve despite the obvious talent disparity. I'm really going to be interested to see what Butch can do with the talent we have now.
 
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#171
#171
99gator said:
Ok, here's a different way to look at this.

Where would Tennessee rank in overall talent in the sec?

What sec teams does Tennessee have a better roster than?
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Tennessee does not have a linebacker who would start at Alabama, Florida, LSU, Georgia, South Carolina, or A&M. MSU is a toss-up.

They don't have a DB that would start at any of those schools, and Ole Miss and Arkansas would be toss-ups.
 
#173
#173
99gator said:
as for 2011 vs. 2012....., the stats in 2011 are deceiving. as i joked at one time, the tennessee defense is the only defense that ever made john brantley look good. they gave up big plays throughout 2011. it just pales in comparison to 2012. lord knows, it has been years since tennessee was able to harrass an opposing qb. and if you are thinking, yeah, but not against akron and troy.....montana scored on an 80 yard td pass.

in addition, offenses throughout the league improved.
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That is far from a valid argument because NO ONE said UT was great in '11... except as compared to '12. Sal had most of the same players plus some JUCO's who were more talented than either the players that were lost or the players that returned.

He did far, far less with more.

That is not saying that there aren't problems or that UT is one of the most talented D's in the SEC. Dooley recruited 3-4 for a couple of years. That will be a problem. Some guys as with any program won't pan out.

BUT UT DOES have talented guys on the DL. They have un/under developed DB's.

My biggest concern is the LB's due to speed and re-converting to the 4-3 from the 3-4.

Some guys who were kind of the odd man out with the 3-4 may do better though. Greg King and Christian Harris come to mind.
 
#174
#174
bamawriter said:
Tennessee does not have a linebacker who would start at Alabama, Florida, LSU, Georgia, South Carolina, or A&M. MSU is a toss-up.

They don't have a DB that would start at any of those schools, and Ole Miss and Arkansas would be toss-ups.
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Is anyone here trying to argue that UT has the best defensive secondary in the nation?

Straw_Man.jpg
 
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