Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#52,653
#52,653
TennTradition said:
I don't know enough to agree or disagree with you. I think that a virus-induced panic (true panic, not "policy panic" like we've seen) does not end well for commerce at all. And you have the burden from medical systems being overwhelmed, etc. If they were right - and not locking down meant hospital systems being overwhelmed and make 100k more deaths than we've seen - do you think people just keep carrying along absent government edict? Except now supply chains are severely disrupted more so than now because even essential businesses have a hard time getting employees to show up, etc.

Like I said, I don't know enough to say if this was the right move then had they not done it, all these things would happen. But I am saying that this is more complicated that, "well shutting down really hit the economy which is horrible, so staying open would have been better for the economy." I think in a lot of rural areas it wouldn't be the case - but GDP is driven by urban areas (if we're talking about pure macro here - not micro, which matters).
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The micro drives the macro.

And we are already seeing essential business showing signs of burden with not only employees but also supply. We were discussing people being able to get burgers Tyson chicken and other meat shops feeling the strain.

The shut down didnt avoid the damage to the essential. back to the micro driving the macro a lot of essential businesses are hurt by non essential businesses being closed down to where many essential businesses are facing their own shutdowns.

We were told to listen to the medical professionals, but nothing was brought up from the economic side. The medical people say it's bad science not to listen to them, but it's at least as bad to ONLY listen to them which is what has happened. The economy shutdown is going to make itself felt. And we have done pretty much nothing to avoid that disaster as all we listen to are the MDs.
 
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#52,656
#52,656
lawgator1 said:
So I see that the administration asked the CDC to come up with guidelines for reopening.

The CDC did so and handed them over.

And the administration is not going to take the advice.

So you have the task force possibly restructuring (gee, I wonder what that means), Trump and Pence out there actively encouraging re-opening even before their own phase-based advice is met, and now they reject a submission from the nation's central health policy maker.

Its going to be tough for Trump to #blamesomeoneelse if this backfires and we see a spike in cases and deaths.
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You are among a small group of people who think that as soon as we are reopened that the expectation is no death. As soon as the media can portray more death as the Presidents fault they will waste no time. And please if you are afraid then stay home. As for the rest of us we are tired of the constant bs
 
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#52,659
#52,659
lawgator1 said:
So I see that the administration asked the CDC to come up with guidelines for reopening.

The CDC did so and handed them over.

And the administration is not going to take the advice.

So you have the task force possibly restructuring (gee, I wonder what that means), Trump and Pence out there actively encouraging re-opening even before their own phase-based advice is met, and now they reject a submission from the nation's central health policy maker.

Its going to be tough for Trump to #blamesomeoneelse if this backfires and we see a spike in cases and deaths.
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One of your cult heroes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/auburn...0ccf622b-2ad8-5d4b-bad4-62d0b53cc86e.amp.html


As Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced new directives for nursing homes to ensure they are complying with federal and state COVID-19 guidelines, he said Thursday that "nobody's to blame" for the more than 3,500 residents who have died after contracting the virus.
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#52,661
#52,661
LouderVol said:
The micro drives the macro.

And we are already seeing essential business showing signs of burden with not only employees but also supply. We were discussing people being able to get burgers Tyson chicken and other meat shops feeling the strain.

The shut down didnt avoid the damage to the essential. back to the micro driving the macro a lot of essential businesses are hurt by non essential businesses being closed down to where many essential businesses are facing their own shutdowns.

We were told to listen to the medical professionals, but nothing was brought up from the economic side. The medical people say it's bad science not to listen to them, but it's at least as bad to ONLY listen to them which is what has happened. The economy shutdown is going to make itself felt. And we have done pretty much nothing to avoid that disaster as all we listen to are the MDs.
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Well - what I meant by micro was just that the micro in the less-affected areas would be better off. Micro still suffers mightily in the urban areas in that scenario, and that drives macro, which then pushes back on micro everywhere.

I don't disagree with your analysis of what's happening with micro/macro now.
 
#52,662
#52,662
lawgator1 said:
So I see that the administration asked the CDC to come up with guidelines for reopening.

The CDC did so and handed them over.

And the administration is not going to take the advice.

So you have the task force possibly restructuring (gee, I wonder what that means), Trump and Pence out there actively encouraging re-opening even before their own phase-based advice is met, and now they reject a submission from the nation's central health policy maker.

Its going to be tough for Trump to #blamesomeoneelse if this backfires and we see a spike in cases and deaths.
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Your bridgegate thread is on the first page. 😉
 
#52,663
#52,663
LouderVol said:
I read that he was shot on site. Apparently I need to read the updates.
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I haven’t followed closely at all, and I don’t know dick about GA law. So I’m shooting from the hip (unintentional pun). Just offering theories.

Most places, felony murder definitions include inchoate crimes. So if they’re attempting to detain him on some bad legal take regarding a citizens arrest, arguably it could be kidnapping and they’re all involved. He gets killed in their attempted kidnapping and anyone involved in the conspiracy is arguably guilty of felony murder.

IMO, most prosecutors would charge it that way even if it’s not likely to result in a conviction of some of those involved. It creates leverage to incentivize a plea deal.

(This Post is not legal advice. Don’t shoot people. If you do, hire a lawyer.)
 
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#52,665
#52,665
RockyTop85 said:
I haven’t followed closely at all, and I don’t know dick about GA law. So I’m shooting from the hip (unintentional pun). Just offering theories.

Most places, felony murder definitions include inchoate crimes. So if they’re attempting to detain him on some bad legal take regarding a citizens arrest, arguably it could be kidnapping and they’re all involved. He gets killed in their attempted kidnapping and anyone involved in the conspiracy is arguably guilty of felony murder.

IMO, most prosecutors would charge it that way even if it’s not likely to result in a conviction of some of those involved. It creates leverage to incentivize a plea deal.

(This Post is not legal advice. Don’t shoot people. If you do, shoot yourself first.)
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One small little fix.
 
#52,669
#52,669
RockyTop85 said:
You’re not aware of the administrative memo sent by Michael Horowitz to Christopher Wray on March 31?

The one Amash was tweeting about... in the tweet that I linked?

The idea that fisa was used to target Trump as part of coup, forest fire, whatever you want to call it, is “pizzagate.” That the FBI is too sloppy and irresponsible to be trusted with the responsibilities afforded them by FISA is analogous to “pedophiles exist.”

Law enforcement abuses its discretion day in and day out all across the country. The FBI is no different. Trump and his associates got treated the way any suspected criminal would be treated anywhere in America. The narrative that he was treated differently because he’s a political outsider is pure drivel concocted by dishonest pushers to keep weak-minded, angry populists from thinking about the validity basis for suspicions that he did in fact commit a crime.

Amash’s legislation addressed systemic problems while continuing to allow the intelligence agencies to pursue valid national security interests. Trump and the Republican Party chose to go the route of sacrificing our privacy at the altar of national security by not only continuing the FBI to have what, in practice, amounts to free reign, but actually expanding that discretion. In short, your “establishment outsider” took the establishment route.

Try to keep up. Or just keep doing everything you can to not acknowledge that whatever the thing you can’t name that Amash failed to do, Trump was actively working against. It’s amusing.
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Aware of it? Yes, I referred to it by mentioning two IG investigations; "try to keep up".

I'm also aware of the damning early December report, which Amash appears mute on. I'm aware the Mar 2019 finding of the Report Bearing Mueller's Name that NO American conspired with Russia, give pause to say "waitaminnit...then how did this possibly spiral into the vast SC probe we witnessed. What was even the basis of C. Hurricane?" People like you and Amash didn't even blink, but yapped about impeachment.

I'm aware you dislike the word 'coup' as much as I dislike the weaponization of federal agencies to affect elections or unseat the elected president. And using an abusive, scorched earth fishing junket to destroy acquaintances, political appointees, or family to do so.

Too bad. And "sloppy" doesn't explain it. The tweet Amash glommed onto is a perfect example; it refers to Carter Page - the same example I challenged you with.

Page has not only been a CIA asset since his military service, but also assisted FBI in the investigation of Russian agents. FBI was told by CIA on at least two occasions to back off Page, that he's an asset. FBI legal falsifies FISA app and state he's not an agency asset. FBI uses a Yahoo report to corroborate the Steele dossier, knowing Steele to be the Yahoo source. On the - guffaw! - strength of the "Verified" dossier, that isn't verified at all. From the guy Ohr warned was compromised by bias, was desperate to prevent Trump's election, and who'd been fired by FBI for leaking to media and lying about it. But then covertly used him anyway. Knowing it to be opposition funded dirt. And kept all this and more from the FISA court.

For his service and being a damn good American, Page is painted as a shadowy, Russia agent, a devious coordinating point between Putin and Trump campaign. His business and reputation are destroyed, he's physically threatened, and is made a pariah.
=====================
IG Horowitz:
“We found that the FBI did not have information corroborating the specific allegations against Carter Page in Steele’s reporting when it relied upon his reports in the first FISA application or subsequent renewal applications,”​
​
“In an email from the liaison to the OGC Attorney, the liaison provided written guidance, including that it was the liaison’s recollection that Page had a relationship with the other agency, and directed the OGC Attorney to review the information that the other agency had provided to the FBI in August 2016. As noted above, that August 2016 information stated that Page did, in fact, have a prior relationship with that other agency. However, the OGC Attorney altered the liaison’s email by inserting the words ‘not a source’ into it, thus making it appear that the liaison had said that Page was “not a source”; the OGC Attorney then sent the altered email to SSA 2. Relying upon this altered email, SSA 2 signed the third renewal application (that again failed to disclose Page’s past relationship with the other agency).”​

I assume you're familiar with FISA judges' Collyer and Boasberg's condemnation of FBI's malfeasance and illegality - ?
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I consider an illegitimate and/or illegal attempt to remove a president, a coup attempt.

I don't care what the motivations of Comey/McCabe/Strzok (fired in disgrace), Brennan (he's a traitor...oh, wait - guess I had bad information), and Rod Wired-up Rosenstein were. They were either willing dupes of Russian propaganda funded by Trump's political opponent, or used the propaganda to support their own political or ideological bias against Trump, or both.

At some point, they were convinced or attempting to convince that Trump conspired with Russia. At that point, they sought to find evidence to prevent his election, then removal upon election. If they'd gone where the evidence took them, C.Hurricane would have ended in Jan 2017 and should have never ventured beyond the basis of RUSSIAN agents meddling. There'd have been no Mueller. As Horowitz stated, there were no plausible explanations for the numerous abuses, and potential bias cannot be excluded.

It's far beyond sloppy when FBI directors are removed for leaking, lying, and referred to DoJ for consideration to criminally prosecution. When fooking CIA directors mumble about "bad information". When AG's conspire about wiring up for a 25A removal. When Barr/Durham are telling us that crimes have been committed, but we have to see if they left enough evidence behind to prosecute.

What's sloppy is your logic. Again; it is not a question of Amash's legislative opposition to FISA, or Republicans lack of opposition, or even that Obama handed Trump a vastly larger surveillance state. The question was and is why Amash has made a public show of reasons to impeach Trump on three separate occasions, but none to defend him or anyone associated with him as ACTUAL, glaringly public examples to bully pulpit his case upon.

Shall I find you a show pony gif, or you want to stick with the sloth?
 
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#52,671
#52,671
vols40 said:
You are among a small group of people who think that as soon as we are reopened that the expectation is no death. As soon as the media can portray more death as the Presidents fault they will waste no time. And please if you are afraid then stay home. As for the rest of us we are tired of the constant bs
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Nice try to dodge it. It will not be simply the existence of more cases or the existence of more deaths. It will be the rate. That has been leveling off or even falling for awhile.

That trend reverses and the rate of both go up? Hasta la vista Trump, for sure.
 
#52,675
#52,675
Tennesseefan2019 said:
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