Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

[GoBigOrangeUT]

Exclusive – Pompeo: President Trump ‘Committed’ to Holding Chinese Communist Party Accountable for Coronavirus Pandemic

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told Breitbart News exclusively that President Donald Trump is “committed” to holding the Chinese Communist Party accountable for the coronavirus pandemic and will be considering options on how to do so in the near future.

Hard to hold a country accountable when you personally owe them money

 

[BigOrangeD]

Hard to hold a country accountable when you personally owe them money

Wrong!!!!!!!!!!! Watch and See.

 

[TennTradition]

Do you think they had more of a warning than us? Do you remember reading what they treated patients with? I don't recall.

We had almost identical warning. First case within a day or two of each other. Approved our first test within a day of each other. Difference was we fumbled our test roll-out and we were not able/willing to contact trace.

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

Wrong!!!!!!!!!!! Watch and See.

My eyes are glued!!!!!

 

[VolStrom]

Yup. Me and virtually every PhD student in the country that is in my field.

And if the government called me and asked me to present my opinion on my research (which is funded by them) that would be a conflict of interest, no?

Never said the government shouldn't fund research. Just merely pointed out his critique is 100% accurate.

So you whore yourself out and want what exactly? You're no different than anyone else that goes to college and then goes to work for a business. I don't care what kind of degree you have, you're going to be accountable to someone.

 

[TennTradition]

I believe it’s more intimate then that. Family, friends, coworkers

In China it was also buses, subway cars, etc.

 

[allvol123]

Just a strange world still. I can interact with people in the store in my local hardware store. Drive 5 miles down the road and Best Buy employees looked at me like I was crazy for thinking I could walk in their store, because that isnt allowed.

 

[TennTradition]

ROCKY TERRAIN
State’s COVID death toll down significantly after change in counting

I am confident that the reporting on this is wrong.

Their announcement really had me reeling yesterday. Very confused. I took this to say that 23% of their deaths weren’t backed by a death certificate that was marked COVID, which I just couldn’t make mathematical sense of. There are ways to get there, but it requires some mental gymnastics that seemed excessive.

So then I went to look at Colorado’s excess deaths, state reported deaths, and CDC-registered death certificates. They all seem to track just fine with state reported deaths not out-pacing the reported death certificates when you look at weeks that are subject to less data lag (at least a few weeks).

Then, I saw it. The lower number the state of CO is reporting now matched the CDC/NHSC provisional death count. And then I saw it on the state’s website - this new lower number is death certificates counted by the CDC through last Saturday. This number lags the state reported number because of the time to receive and process death certificates.

It is largely just a lag and does not represent a large revision downwards.

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

Just a strange world still. I can interact with people in the store in my local hardware store. Drive 5 miles down the road and Best Buy employees looked at me like I was crazy for thinking I could walk in their store, because that isnt allowed.

Well let’s see. One is a locally owned hardware store with maybe 5 people in it at one time and one is a giant corporation that probably has anywhere between 100-200 in their store at any given time.

 

[BigOrangeD]

My eyes are glued!!!!!

Never underestimate the Don.
Wall is being Built - Check
Conservative Judges Being Appointed by the 100s - Check
Taxes Lowered - Check
Built Up Economy and Will Again - Check
Ticks off the Liberals - Check
Calls out the Liberal Media - Check
Will Win Again in 2020 - Check
Will get the SOBs that Framed Him - Happening Now!
...

 

[BigOrangeD]

I am confident that the reporting on this is wrong.

Their announcement really had me feeling yesterday. Very confused. I took this to say that 23% of their deaths weren’t backed by a death certificate that was marked COVID, which I just couldn’t make mathematical sense of. There are ways to get there, but it requires some mental gymnastics that seemed excessive.

So then I went to look at Colorado’s excess deaths, state reported deaths, and CDC-registered death certificates. They all seem to track just fine with state reported deaths not out-pacing the reported death certificates when you look at weeks that are subject to less data lag (at least a few weeks).

Then, I saw it. The lower number the state of CO is reporting now matched the CDC/NHSC provisional death count. And then I saw it on the state’s website - this new lower number is death certificates counted by the CDC through last Saturday. This number lags the state reported number because of the time to receive and process death certificates.

It is largely just a lag and does not represent a large revision downwards.

Many Doctors have reported that they are required to report deaths as a COVID death if the patient tested positive for COVID. They basically were saying, many of the patients would have died regardless if they had COVID or not and it was wrong to report it that way. Have you seen any revisions on that? I'm thinking the count may go down signigicantly if deaths were reported the same way Flu deaths are. Any truth to that from what you have seen?

 

[BigOrangeD]

Well let’s see. One is a locally owned hardware store with maybe 5 people in it at one time and one is a giant corporation that probably has anywhere between 100-200 in their store at any given time.

Kind of like WalMart and Grocery Stores.

 

[Ten_Titans]

So you whore yourself out and want what exactly? You're no different than anyone else that goes to college and then goes to work for a business. I don't care what kind of degree you have, you're going to be accountable to someone.

Getting paid for a job is "whoring yourself out" now? Weird perspective, but alright. Sure.

No, I'm not any different, considering that is exactly what I did? I submitted a research proposal for grant money, told them what I was going to give them, gave it to them, and they paid for my tuition. Just like every other student essentially. What part of that are you hung up on?

And of course. The question is who you are accountable to. Would you believe a climate scientist who says global warming is a hoax, who just so happens to be paid and funded by BP? Probably not.

We rely on experts to provide information to policy makers. There is this idea that those experts are unbiased and independent from the government, when that just isn't the case. The majority of experts are in Academia and the majority of them are funded by the government, which is a giant conflict of interest.

The idea of tenure was always the work around that gave professors in Academia a bit of autonomy to be unbiased. That is basically gone now with how the grant funding operates.

That's just a statement of fact. Not really grasping what it has to do with my PhD I supposedly whored myself out for lol. Again, I'm not an exception. If the government told me to give an expert opinion while I was a grad student and they paid my tuition, people should absolutely be skeptical of that opinion.

 

[TennTradition]

Many Doctors have reported that they are required to report deaths as a COVID death if the patient tested positive for COVID. They basically were saying, many of the patients would have died regardless if they had COVID or not and it was wrong to report it that way. Have you seen any revisions on that? I'm thinking the count may go down signigicantly if deaths were reported the same way Flu deaths are. Any truth to that from what you have seen?

The closet thing we have to shed light on this is excess death data. We can ask how many more people are dying that have typically died this time of year.

For example, that is what made me suspicious about Colorado. And then found the description on their weBsite that explained things. I’ll post those plots below.

From the excess death analysis, I’m not seeing anything that would suggest COVID deaths are way over-reported.

However, some important caveats
1) Data lag requires any data within last few weeks to be corrected and that correction has error (the CO plots below aren’t corrected for lag, that’s why the reported deaths get so much closer to excess deaths in the last week)
2) Fewer people are dying because they aren’t driving, performing strenuous activity, and even homicide - so excess deaths could be underestimating new deaths
3) however, people aren’t seeking treatment for certain conditions and this might be fatal and these would be excess deaths that aren’t COVID related.

For Colorado:

Here is national analysis I did back a weeks or so ago...I need to clean it up.....but it shows COVID-associated deaths are tracking well with excess deaths (with excess deaths exceeding them so far - and that is what you want to see)

 

[NurseGoodVol]

Remember when Republicans lost their **** because a husband wanted to end life support on his comatose wife? A woman who had been in that state for years? Who was basically brain dead?

But now 80,000 fully functioning humans die and thats not only ok but a great victory to be celebrated?

Pro life indeed!

Terry schieble was in a constant vegetative state. Ever seen someone in that state. They eventually die of massive bacterial overloads from huge bedsores. That's some quality of life right there.
Same way my cousin died. Massive bacterial infections. My aunt made the same decision and no one was celebrating anything.
I don't celebrate going back to work tonight because of what I might see when i get back there. The elderly we tried to protect are showing up in icu.
I'm also smart enough to know that if we don't open up states to commerce we will be devastated soon.
Just cold hard logic of what may happen economically and hard decisions.
Truly nothing to celebrate.

 

[VolStrom]

Getting paid for a job is "whoring yourself out" now? Weird perspective, but alright. Sure.

No, I'm not any different, considering that is exactly what I did? I submitted a research proposal for grant money, told them what I was going to give them, gave it to them, and they paid for my tuition. Just like every other student essentially. What part of that are you hung up on?

And of course. The question is who you are accountable to. Would you believe a climate scientist who says global warming is a hoax, who just so happens to be paid and funded by BP? Probably not.

We rely on experts to provide information to policy makers. There is this idea that those experts are unbiased and independent from the government, when that just isn't the case. The majority of experts are in Academia and the majority of them are funded by the government, which is a giant conflict of interest.

That's just a statement of fact. Not really grasping what it has to do with my PhD I supposedly whored myself out for lol. Again, I'm not an exception. If the government told me to give an expert opinion while I was a grad student and they paid my tuition, people should absolutely be skeptical of that opinion.

So you think that you're an expert? What makes someone an expert? If you've never worked in the private sector why would you think you're an expert in anything? I could go on and on about theoretical types like you that think you understand how industry works when you've never worked in it.

 

[BigOrangeD]

The closet thing we have to shed light on this is excess death data. We can ask how many more people are dying that have typically died this time of year.

For example, that is what made me suspicious about Colorado. And then found the description on their weBsite that explained things. I’ll post those plots below.

From the excess death analysis, I’m not seeing anything that would suggest COVID deaths are way over-reported.

However, some important caveats
1) Data lag requires any data within last few weeks to be corrected and that correction has error (the CO plots below aren’t corrected for lag, that’s why the reported deaths get so much closer to excess deaths in the last week)
2) Fewer people are dying because they aren’t driving, performing strenuous activity, and even homicide - so excess deaths could be underestimating new deaths
3) however, people aren’t seeking treatment for certain conditions and this might be fatal and these would be excess deaths that aren’t COVID related.

For Colorado:
View attachment 280083View attachment 280082
Here is national analysis I did back a weeks or so ago...I need to clean it up.....but it shows COVID-associated deaths are tracking well with excess deaths (with excess deaths exceeding them so far - and that is what you want to see)

View attachment 280084

Good points. #3 especially.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

Okie dokie Trump slurper

Ad hominem attacks are useful.

 

[TennTradition]

So you think that you're an expert? What makes someone an expert? If you've never worked in the private sector why would you think you're an expert in anything? I could go on and on about theoretical types like you that think you understand how industry works when you've never worked in it.

I can speak with some background on that since I have both a PhD and worked as an industrial researcher.

I think it depends on what the issue is and what aspect of the technology one claims to be an expert on. There are aspects of technologies/phenomena/problems, etc. that academic researchers are THE top experts on. There are also aspects of these that are hard to understand without going through industrial implementation, and on those they are not experts. There are also technologies that THE experts work in industry. I don't think you need to understand how industry works to be an expert on any subject - but in some cases, it can be true.

 

[Ten_Titans]

So you think that you're an expert? What makes someone an expert? If you've never worked in the private sector why would you think you're an expert in anything? I could go on and on about theoretical types like you that think you understand how industry works when you've never worked in it.

My man... That was an example. I am an expert, but certainly not in epidemiology or medicine. I was merely pointing out a hypothetical of a possible conflict of interest that could arise as a result of my own research.

Not that I need to, but a little background. I worked for 4 years designing food grade robots before I got my PhD. I've spent hundreds of hours in 30 degree meat plants. I worked for the DoD. Now I work in private industry again.

Personal attacks on someone you know nothing about is some petty crap. I've outlined exactly what I think on this issue. If you think it's wrong, let me know why man. The ad hominem crap can stop though. I don't have anything to prove about myself to some anonymous name on a message board.

 

[VolStrom]

I can speak with some background on that since I have both a PhD and worked as an industrial researcher.

I think it depends on what the issue is and what aspect of the technology one claims to be an expert on. There are aspects of technologies/phenomena/problems, etc. that academic researchers are THE top experts on. There are also aspects of these that are hard to understand without going through industrial implementation, and on those they are not experts. There are also technologies that THE experts work in industry. I don't think you need to understand how industry works to be an expert on any subject - but in some cases, it can be true.

Are you a politician because that was a great political answer. I also love the capitalization of THE. I have a feeling that you are full of self worth and if you had to make a living outside of academia, you couldn't.

 

[VolStrom]

My man... That was an example. I am an expert, but certainly not in epidemiology or medicine. I was merely pointing out a hypothetical of a possible conflict of interest that could arise as a result of my own research.

Not that I need to, but a little background. I worked for 4 years designing food grade robots before I got my PhD. I've spent hundreds of hours in 30 degree meat plants. I worked for the DoD. Now I work in private industry again.

Personal attacks on someone you know nothing about is some petty crap. I've outlined exactly what I think on this issue. If you think it's wrong, let me know why man. The ad hominem crap can stop though. I don't have anything to prove about myself to some anonymous name on a message board.

Why do you feel the need to call me man?

 

[BowlBrother85]

Never underestimate the Don.
Wall is being Built - Check
Conservative Judges Being Appointed by the 100s - Check
Taxes Lowered - Check
Built Up Economy and Will Again - Check
Ticks off the Liberals - Check
Calls out the Liberal Media - Check
Will Win Again in 2020 - Check
Will get the SOBs that Framed Him - Happening Now!
...

Developed the world's first Super Duper Missile - Check

 

[TennTradition]

Are you a politician because that was a great political answer. I also love the capitalization of THE. I have a feeling that you are full of self worth and if you had to make a living outside of academia, you couldn't.

Not a politician.

The only paycheck I've ever received from academia was my stipend as a graduate student.

I have a feeling you are rather judgmental and tend to establish relative worth through disqualification of other's backgrounds/experiences. But that's just my feeling....

 

[BigOrangeD]

Developed the world's first Super Duper Missile - Check

I think that is still in the works. He does have a way with words.