Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#58,877
#58,877
Horowitz: Bombshell study: Could half the uninfected population already be partially immune?
Could nearly half the population not already infected with SARS-CoV-2 be immune to it from having already contracted other forms of coronavirus in recent years?
That is one implication of a major study conducted by over a dozen researchers from several microbiology and immunology institutions in the U.S.
The purveyors of panic are warning of a second wave of the virus and that even if we are correct in asserting that the general fatality rate is extremely low for most people, it will still result in millions of deaths worldwide if we need 70 percent of the population to get the virus in order to achieve herd immunity. Putting aside the fact that their strategy of lockdown doesn’t provide a solution to this hypothetical problem either, even as it kills more people from the collateral damage, there is now promising evidence that more people might already be immune to the virus.
The study is built upon the principle that T cells play a central role in destroying viruses and providing immunity. Not only were these cells discovered in all the blood samples of confirmed recovered COVID-19 patients, but they were also found in 6 of the 11 blood samples from 2015-2018, before those individual donors could possibly have contracted the virus.
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#58,880
#58,880
82_VOL_83 said:
Fact check: Medicare pays hospitals more money for COVID-19 patients
Paragraphs 4 and 6.
Click to expand...

I still don't see why the money would necessarily drive up the deaths. Did the person have CV-associated pneumonia and were they treated for it in a hospital? Were they put on a ventilator?

It isn't like there is a death bonus.

And many more people walk out of the hospital than are trucked out (forgive the bluntness).

I just tire of the constant push of wrong-doing by anyone and everyone.
 
#58,881
#58,881
TennTradition said:
I still don't see why the money would necessarily drive up the deaths. Did the person have CV-associated pneumonia and were they treated for it in a hospital? Were they put on a ventilator?

It isn't like there is a death bonus.

And many more people walk out of the hospital than are trucked out (forgive the bluntness).

I just tire of the constant push of wrong-doing by anyone and everyone.
Click to expand...
Because the hospitals would get more money which helps cover some of the costs they incurred when they had to give up elective surgeries, which is in the millions per week at some places. Why do you think that most hospitals were ghost towns not just from patients but cutting back on staff during this "war on COVID"?

When it comes to government mandates, it's ALWAYS about the money
 
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#58,882
#58,882
Volsfaninva917 said:
Cuomo granted immunity to nursing home executives, after big-money campaign donation: report
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New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who signed legislation granting hospital and nursing home executives immunity from lawsuits related to the novel coronavirus last month, previously received a big-money boost from a powerful health care industry group, according to a new report.
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The Guardian reports that the New York State Democratic Committee, then backing Cuomo’s primary run in 2018, received more than $1 million from the Greater New York Hospital Association (GNYHA) -- a lobbying group for hospital systems, some of which own nursing homes.

The donation made the group one of the state party’s largest contributors in that cycle. Three of the hospital association’s top officials separately gave more than $150,000 to Cuomo’s campaign between 2015 and 2018, the outlet reported.
 
#58,883
#58,883
Rickyvol77 said:
Because the hospitals would get more money which helps cover some of the costs they incurred when they had to give up elective surgeries, which is in the millions per week at some places. Why do you think that most hospitals were ghost towns not just from patients but cutting back on staff during this "war on COVID"?

When it comes to government mandates, it's ALWAYS about the money
Click to expand...

Get more money for what, though? If they treated the patient, they get the money whether they live or die.

They don't present death certificates for reimbursement for the patients that live. So, what are they presenting? Do they need a positive CV test to get the money? How are they recording/tracking patients that are treated with CV when the file for reimbursement?

People always label this as "they are calling all deaths CV deaths so they can get that money" but they don't get a bonus if the patient dies.

So, are they calling every person who walks into the hospital a CV patient? If not, why? If so, how are hospitalization rates for CV going down but hospital bed utilization for other cases going up? Why not just call them CV - why wait until they die of a gunshot and then call it a CV case? Do they get that money for a gunshot victim that had CV if they were never treated for pneumonia? (no) And for the case of non-CV-associated pneumonia, were they treating it as if it were CV? Did they know it wasn't? Are they assigning CV deaths to patients that tested NEGATIVE for CV, or just those that died before being tested? These would all be good things to know before buying into that narrative.

Through the peak of the CV outbreak, we had more deaths than could be described by the death certificates issued saying CV. The shape matched perfectly, but the number of people that died with CV was less than the total "extra" that died.
 
#58,884
#58,884
TennTradition said:
I still don't see why the money would necessarily drive up the deaths. Did the person have CV-associated pneumonia and were they treated for it in a hospital? Were they put on a ventilator?

It isn't like there is a death bonus.

And many more people walk out of the hospital than are trucked out (forgive the bluntness).

I just tire of the constant push of wrong-doing by anyone and everyone.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it's for the money.. but it's odd that when a person dies and tests positive they have that labeled as the cause of death even when that's not always the case. Coroners are being told to do that for a reason.
 
#58,885
#58,885
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#58,886
#58,886
Rifleman said:
For those interested, here is what my data projections are showing for daily new cases for the next few weeks.
This is the first sign of a change from the gradual descent which the data has suggested until now, but obviously it isn't too worrying if the new case data follows this brief plateau.

View attachment 283063
I am still seeing a lower plateau just under 10k in July, but it wouldn't be surprising if we stayed around this current level. As some here pointed out yesterday, such a plateau would be positive as long as it is confined to healthier populations.

Caveat: we are obviously balanced on the knife's edge right now, so things could go in either direction. A lot of the variables are quite stable right now though.
Click to expand...
That curve looks pretty flat to me.
 
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#58,887
#58,887
TennTradition said:
Get more money for what, though? If they treated the patient, they get the money whether they live or die.

They don't present death certificates for reimbursement for the patients that live. So, what are they presenting? Do they need a positive CV test to get the money? How are they recording/tracking patients that are treated with CV when the file for reimbursement?

People always label this as "they are calling all deaths CV deaths so they can get that money" but they don't get a bonus if the patient dies.

So, are they calling every person who walks into the hospital a CV patient? If not, why? If so, how are hospitalization rates for CV going down but hospital bed utilization for other cases going up? Why not just call them CV - why wait until they die of a gunshot and then call it a CV case? Do they get that money for a gunshot victim that had CV if they were never treated for pneumonia? (no) And for the case of non-CV-associated pneumonia, were they treating it as if it were CV? Did they know it wasn't? Are they assigning CV deaths to patients that tested NEGATIVE for CV, or just those that died before being tested? These would all be good things to know before buying into that narrative.

Through the peak of the CV outbreak, we had more deaths than could be described by the death certificates issued saying CV. The shape matched perfectly, but the number of people that died with CV was less than the total "extra" that died.
Click to expand...

I have seen what some hospitals have been doing and they are considering EVERY "possible and pending" COVID patient as such, so if they die or leave before the test comes back, they are considered COVID. And yes the COVID fund that the feds are paying out is enormous, so a patient was a "regular" flu patient they would pay $5k in reimbursement, but with COVID, $39k. no proven test, no nothing...just because a patient dies doesnt mean the hospital doesnt get paid by Medicare for their services, AND in some "hard hit" counties and states, the governments are inflating COVID numbers to get that "pandemic money" which is based by case numbers and populations with COVID.
 
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#58,888
#58,888
Hayezb said:
I'm not saying it's for the money.. but it's odd that when a person dies and tests positive they have that labeled as the cause of death even when that's not always the case. Coroners are being told to do that for a reason.
Click to expand...

The main reason is because when you have a fairly low percentage of the population that has tested positive yet you are experiencing tens of thousands of deaths of folks from other causes will make up a small fraction of the total - so, to allow for rapid data reporting to track the pandemic, the CDC requested the data to be reported that way (vs. waiting long periods of time for autopsies, etc.).
 
#58,889
#58,889
Volsfaninva917 said:
Even fox is speaking in half truths now

Virginia mandates coronavirus face masks as state sees biggest daily spike in new cases

At the end of the article
The news comes after the state on Tuesday reported its biggest single-day increase in COVID-19 cases – 1,615 – a jump from the 1,483 new cases reported on Monday, according to local news station WAVY. Increased testing was reportedly behind the spike.

Virginia tested almost 30K people over the weekend
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You are right to point out the limited value of the simple raw number of new infections when testing is higher.

But this is phrased above in an interesting manner: "Increased testing was reportedly behind the spike."

Reported by whom and on what basis? This makes it SEEM like the cause of more positives is simply a byproduct of increased testing. How do we know this?

"Virginia tested almost 30K people over the weekend" is the next potentially misleading statement. First, relative to how many the prior weekends? I mean, if the number of tests the prior weekend was 8,000, and they went to 30,000, one naturally would think that an increase in reported cases is a reflection of more testing, not more spread.

But what if last weekend the testing was 24,000. Does that compel the conclusion that its not caused by wider spread? I don't think so.

Fact is, until you have universal testing, or randomized testing endorsed by models in which we have high confidence, you and everyone else is to some degree guessing as to why there are more cases.
 
#58,890
#58,890
Rickyvol77 said:
I have seen what some hospitals have been doing and they are considering EVERY "possible and pending" COVID patient as such, so if they die or leave before the test comes back, they are considered COVID. And yes the COVID fund that the feds are paying out is enormous, so a patient was a "regular" flu patient they would pay $5k in reimbursement, but with COVID, $39k. no proven test, no nothing...just because a patient dies doesnt mean the hospital doesnt get paid by Medicare for their services, AND in some "hard hit" counties and states, the governments are inflating COVID numbers to get that "pandemic money" which is based by case numbers and populations with COVID.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

There are a lot of pneumonia deaths every day in this country. About 500. So, if all of those are counted as CV because as they walked in the door they were labeled that by the hospital then it has a chance to inflate the numbers. But, by that same token, the excess deaths should have not been impacted. Yet, the excess deaths were higher than what could be described by CV.

I'm not trying to deny that there aren't non-CV deaths being counted as CV. And I get the motivation of hospitals to label their ILI as CV. But testing is way to available today for me to believe these patients aren't getting tested now. And during the peak of the epidemic, I just don't see the data that suggests we over-labeled in a way that actually meaningfully impacted the reported numbers.

The energy spent on this topic feels disproportionate to the impact it has had. I will add the caveat that over the last few weeks, the excess death curve has come down and hugged tightly and possibly lagged CV deaths. So, as total CV deaths have dropped, excess deaths have dropped more. That isn't immediately a problem because excess deaths were a lot higher than CV deaths before - but it could grow into an issue and I'm watching it.

If deaths of elderly were pulled forward by a few months, you would expect a dip in total deaths over the next few months. But, that is hard to model.
 
#58,891
#58,891
Michigan Won’t Report How Many of Its Coronavirus Deaths Were Nursing Home Infections

Michigan is now the only state among the 19 states with more than 900 COVID-19 deaths that is not reporting the number of those deaths that are from nursing homes.

AP_19224696672510-640x480.png


Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat, has failed to implement state level reporting on the number of COVID-19 deaths in the state from long term care facilities more than one month after local media reports first indicated the state of Michigan has a serious problem with COVID-19 deaths in nursing homes.

That pattern of failing to report this key public health information continued on Tuesday when Gov. Whitmer refused to answer a reporter’s question about long term care facility reporting in the state.

“Could you update us on the status of long term care facility reporting. I know we’re transitioning to a new process. Tell us what hasn’t been worked and what we can expect?” the reporter asked at the governor’s daily briefing.

“You see me grabbing my mask, because I’m going to hand this over to Dr. J.,” Whitmer responded as she dodged the question and called the state’s Chief Medical Executive and Chief Deputy Director for Health for the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services Dr. Joneigh Khaldun to the podium.

Khaldun’s response was evasive and indefinite:
 
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#58,892
#58,892
lawgator1 said:
You are right to point out the limited value of the simple raw number of new infections when testing is higher.

But this is phrased above in an interesting manner: "Increased testing was reportedly behind the spike."

Reported by whom and on what basis? This makes it SEEM like the cause of more positives is simply a byproduct of increased testing. How do we know this?

"Virginia tested almost 30K people over the weekend" is the next potentially misleading statement. First, relative to how many the prior weekends? I mean, if the number of tests the prior weekend was 8,000, and they went to 30,000, one naturally would think that an increase in reported cases is a reflection of more testing, not more spread.

But what if last weekend the testing was 24,000. Does that compel the conclusion that its not caused by wider spread? I don't think so.

Fact is, until you have universal testing, or randomized testing endorsed by models in which we have high confidence, you and everyone else is to some degree guessing as to why there are more cases.
Click to expand...
Virginia tested almost 30K people last weekend, over the Holiday weekend Northam had testing sites set up just like this one
Free COVID-19 testing scheduled in Harrisonburg and Rockingham County this week
with higher number of test towards the coast and in NOVA ( I think each of those localities got 3K test each )

My other issue with the article is the spike had absolutely nothing to do with the mask mandate, Northam said last Friday that a Mask Mandate was coming this week. So anyone acting as if it was a huge surprise or based of this weekends wide spread testing is FOS
 
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#58,894
#58,894
TennTradition said:
I still don't see why the money would necessarily drive up the deaths. Did the person have CV-associated pneumonia and were they treated for it in a hospital? Were they put on a ventilator?

It isn't like there is a death bonus.

And many more people walk out of the hospital than are trucked out (forgive the bluntness).

I just tire of the constant push of wrong-doing by anyone and everyone.
Click to expand...
It doesn't increase the number of deaths. It increases the number of deaths that "can" be attributed to C19. If you die in the ER from a car accident, they will test you for C19 and if you are positive, it gets reported. They get creds for a C19 patient and I think it has more to do with the "tracking" aspect than the dying aspect, either way, it inflates the number of deaths of people "with the Rona".
 
#58,896
#58,896
TennTradition said:
Get more money for what, though? If they treated the patient, they get the money whether they live or die.

They don't present death certificates for reimbursement for the patients that live. So, what are they presenting? Do they need a positive CV test to get the money? How are they recording/tracking patients that are treated with CV when the file for reimbursement?

People always label this as "they are calling all deaths CV deaths so they can get that money" but they don't get a bonus if the patient dies.

So, are they calling every person who walks into the hospital a CV patient? If not, why? If so, how are hospitalization rates for CV going down but hospital bed utilization for other cases going up? Why not just call them CV - why wait until they die of a gunshot and then call it a CV case? Do they get that money for a gunshot victim that had CV if they were never treated for pneumonia? (no) And for the case of non-CV-associated pneumonia, were they treating it as if it were CV? Did they know it wasn't? Are they assigning CV deaths to patients that tested NEGATIVE for CV, or just those that died before being tested? These would all be good things to know before buying into that narrative.

Through the peak of the CV outbreak, we had more deaths than could be described by the death certificates issued saying CV. The shape matched perfectly, but the number of people that died with CV was less than the total "extra" that died.
Click to expand...
My mother in law died from a heart attack 3 weeks back now. We were asked repeatedly by the county if we wanted to have a C19 test done. We repeatedly said no. They may have done it anyway. I get tired of the deniers thinking that we had thousands die from Covid 19 this year and literally no one has said anything about normal flu. The numbers are inflated, without linking anything, the only reason to do that is to gain $$ from the feds.
 
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#58,897
#58,897
Franklin Pierce said:
Michigan Won’t Report How Many of Its Coronavirus Deaths Were Nursing Home Infections

Michigan is now the only state among the 19 states with more than 900 COVID-19 deaths that is not reporting the number of those deaths that are from nursing homes.

AP_19224696672510-640x480.png


Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat, has failed to implement state level reporting on the number of COVID-19 deaths in the state from long term care facilities more than one month after local media reports first indicated the state of Michigan has a serious problem with COVID-19 deaths in nursing homes.

That pattern of failing to report this key public health information continued on Tuesday when Gov. Whitmer refused to answer a reporter’s question about long term care facility reporting in the state.

“Could you update us on the status of long term care facility reporting. I know we’re transitioning to a new process. Tell us what hasn’t been worked and what we can expect?” the reporter asked at the governor’s daily briefing.

“You see me grabbing my mask, because I’m going to hand this over to Dr. J.,” Whitmer responded as she dodged the question and called the state’s Chief Medical Executive and Chief Deputy Director for Health for the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services Dr. Joneigh Khaldun to the podium.

Khaldun’s response was evasive and indefinite:
​
Click to expand...
Example of mask dumbassery. She is speaking to reporters at 3-4 ft distance that are actively talking in her face without a mask but when she can step away she puts a mask on? WT everluving F.
 
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#58,899
#58,899
82_VOL_83 said:
It doesn't increase the number of deaths. It increases the number of deaths that "can" be attributed to C19. If you die in the ER from a car accident, they will test you for C19 and if you are positive, it gets reported. They get creds for a C19 patient and I think it has more to do with the "tracking" aspect than the dying aspect, either way, it inflates the number of deaths of people "with the Rona".
Click to expand...

If they didn’t treat that crash victim for pneumonia, I don’t think they’ll be seeing pneumonia-level reimbursements.
 
#58,900
#58,900
82_VOL_83 said:
My mother in law died from a heart attack 3 weeks back now. We were asked repeatedly by the county if we wanted to have a C19 test done. We repeatedly said no. They may have done it anyway. I get tired of the deniers thinking that we had thousands die from Covid 19 this year and literally no one has said anything about normal flu. The numbers are inflated, without linking anything, the only reason to do that is to gain $$ from the feds.
Click to expand...

Literally no one has said anything about normal flu?
 
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