Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#69,801
#69,801
kiddiedoc said:
I did read it.

Once again, there is no evidence that WEARING a cloth mask prevents you from acquiring the virus. They might block spit or snot from the unsuspecting, infected person, but the jury is still out. Remember that scientists and physicians have not recommended them during flu or respiratory seasons, and it wasn't because they were never studied.

The CDC clearly states that cloth does not protect the wearer, and I can get you the particle size of aerosol droplets, CV, and the filtration size measurements of cloth masks tomorrow. I have notes at my office and don't feel like looking it all up tonight.

Side note: I assume you are neatly shorn now? That was an impressive beard. My wife always "convinces" me to cut mine back in the winter before I reach woodsman.
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I will start by saying I wear a mask. But everything I have read, prior to this debate taking front and center, was numerous discussions from the experts about how they don’t recommend people wearing masks because they are unlikely to wear it correctly. Which increase the chances of that person making themselves ill. Face touching, not having it on correctly, and not proper cleaning. So I am wearing it to keep you safe but not me. Ok I can live with that. But I am not sacrificing my kid for other people’s health.
 
#69,803
#69,803
Also, I'm a pretty reasonable, level-headed, and intelligent guy. I'm happy to engage in friendly discourse, and I even welcome disagreement to drive thought and discussion. It wouldn't be terrible for us to back off the insults and denigration.

It's been an incredibly difficult four months for me, and I am too busy to keep up with the many pages of posts/day. I try to stop by, mainly in the evenings, as I think some posters appreciate the insight of a local practicing-physician in this matter. I'm not a nationally-acclaimed ID doc or epidemiologist, but I've seen patients every day through the entire pandemic, communicate regularly with the Chief at our local pediatric hospital and colleagues around the country, and have both diagnosed and cared for COVID patients.
 
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#69,804
#69,804
kiddiedoc said:
Also, I'm a pretty reasonable, level-headed, and intelligent guy. I'm happy to engage in friendly discourse, and I even welcome disagreement to drive thought and discussion. It wouldn't be terrible for us to back off the insults and denigration.

It's been an incredibly difficult four months for me, and I am too busy to keep up with the many pages of posts/day. I try to stop by, mainly in the evenings, as I think some posters appreciate the insight of a local practicing-physician in this matter. I'm not a nationally-acclaimed ID doc or epidemiologist, but I've seen patients every day through the entire pandemic, communicate regularly with the Chief at our local pediatric hospital and colleagues around the country, and have both diagnosed and cared for COVID patients.
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I have appreciated every single one of your posts. Get rest, take care of yourself, try to sneak in quality family time, and most importantly keep posting (just kidding be safe.)
 
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#69,805
#69,805
kiddiedoc said:
That's an inaccurate article. "Aerosols" are much smaller than the filtration capability of cloth masks. This is exactly why N95s and respirators were invented and used by those at risk of inhaling viral particles and their associated aerosolized droplets, which have evaporated to much smaller diameters as they travel from the expeller.

In addition, there is little to no data demonstrating the safety of wearing a cloth mask to the wearer. The constant touching/wiping/adjusting of the mask absolutely has the potential to increase risk of infection. If you don't believe me, come spend a day in the office with me and observe.

I know this may cause some to challenge their preconceived beliefs, but it will take critical thinking to emerge from this crisis.
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I've never understood the touching/wiping/adjusting of the mask argument. When this stuff first started we heard and read stories constantly that the 2 main things you could do to help avoid the virus were (1) wash your hands often for at least 20 seconds (2) don't touch your face - which was often accompanied by the factoid that studies show the average person touches their face 20 times an hour. So, when mask wearing was not encouraged we were told we needed to discipline ourselves to not touch our faces. If we can be expected to change that behavior, can we not also discipline ourselves to not touch our mask ? I personally can.

The other thing I don't understand is the mask not helping because the particles are smaller than the holes in the fabric. This is probably stupid but here goes - a golf ball will fit thru the holes of a chain link fence easily but if you throw a golf ball at a chain link fence there is a decent chance you will hit the fence and not the hole. Why can't the same be true for a virus going thru a mask? Even if it's smaller than the hole in the fabric, won't some of the particles hit the cloth and not the hole? Especially if you have 3 layers. If you throw a golf ball at 1 chain link fence you might hit the hole and the golf ball make it thru. If you add a 2nd fence an inch behind the first and you line the wire mesh of the 2nd fence up to cover the gaps of the first fence the golf ball won't make it thru. You add a 3rd fence an inch behind the 2nd and you won't be able to get a gumball thru. So, won't some of the tiny virus particles hit one of the cloth layers and stick to it? And is there a benefit to reducing the number of particles that get thru? Or is 1 getting thru as bad as 1,000,000?
 
#69,808
#69,808
What’s the turn around time on a Covid test?? My daughter tested positive. Took the at home test on Tuesday (to return to campus this fall), overnighted it to the lab. Got a positive result back yesterday morning. That’s a quick turnaround time. Something is not computing with this. I’m going with her tomorrow to be tested by her doctor. Just want a second opinion. She’s asymptomatic other than the 20 year old freak out.
 
#69,810
#69,810
larjoranj said:
I've never understood the touching/wiping/adjusting of the mask argument. When this stuff first started we heard and read stories constantly that the 2 main things you could do to help avoid the virus were (1) wash your hands often for at least 20 seconds (2) don't touch your face - which was often accompanied by the factoid that studies show the average person touches their face 20 times an hour. So, when mask wearing was not encouraged we were told we needed to discipline ourselves to not touch our faces. If we can be expected to change that behavior, can we not also discipline ourselves to not touch our mask ? I personally can.

The other thing I don't understand is the mask not helping because the particles are smaller than the holes in the fabric. This is probably stupid but here goes - a golf ball will fit thru the holes of a chain link fence easily but if you throw a golf ball at a chain link fence there is a decent chance you will hit the fence and not the hole. Why can't the same be true for a virus going thru a mask? Even if it's smaller than the hole in the fabric, won't some of the particles hit the cloth and not the hole? Especially if you have 3 layers. If you throw a golf ball at 1 chain link fence you might hit the hole and the golf ball make it thru. If you add a 2nd fence an inch behind the first and you line the wire mesh of the 2nd fence up to cover the gaps of the first fence the golf ball won't make it thru. You add a 3rd fence an inch behind the 2nd and you won't be able to get a gumball thru. So, won't some of the tiny virus particles hit one of the cloth layers and stick to it? And is there a benefit to reducing the number of particles that get thru? Or is 1 getting thru as bad as 1,000,000?
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I know you didn't ask me, but honestly, it's common sense. People can argue the percentages, but that doesn't change the fact that there is some protection for the wearer from varying sizes of matter coming into direct contact with part of the face area, nose and mouth.

The one thing that comes to mind is, maybe they should have just said it only helps protect the wearer from contracting COVID19. The logic being that people would be more prone to protect themselves than others.

I might have to have a stern talking with those stubborn CDC folk.
 
#69,811
#69,811
larjoranj said:
I've never understood the touching/wiping/adjusting of the mask argument. When this stuff first started we heard and read stories constantly that the 2 main things you could do to help avoid the virus were (1) wash your hands often for at least 20 seconds (2) don't touch your face - which was often accompanied by the factoid that studies show the average person touches their face 20 times an hour. So, when mask wearing was not encouraged we were told we needed to discipline ourselves to not touch our faces. If we can be expected to change that behavior, can we not also discipline ourselves to not touch our mask ? I personally can.

The other thing I don't understand is the mask not helping because the particles are smaller than the holes in the fabric. This is probably stupid but here goes - a golf ball will fit thru the holes of a chain link fence easily but if you throw a golf ball at a chain link fence there is a decent chance you will hit the fence and not the hole. Why can't the same be true for a virus going thru a mask? Even if it's smaller than the hole in the fabric, won't some of the particles hit the cloth and not the hole? Especially if you have 3 layers. If you throw a golf ball at 1 chain link fence you might hit the hole and the golf ball make it thru. If you add a 2nd fence an inch behind the first and you line the wire mesh of the 2nd fence up to cover the gaps of the first fence the golf ball won't make it thru. You add a 3rd fence an inch behind the 2nd and you won't be able to get a gumball thru. So, won't some of the tiny virus particles hit one of the cloth layers and stick to it? And is there a benefit to reducing the number of particles that get thru? Or is 1 getting thru as bad as 1,000,000?
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I'll help with the second question. In terms of size, the CV particle vs cloth filtration size (or your "chain link" hole analogy) is approximately the same as an average human passing through a gap approximately 1 mile wide. Aerosol droplet vs cloth mask is about human vs interstate tunnel.

This is why the wearer/inhaler is essentially unprotected. Also why we have to wear N95+ to protect from viral exposure.
 
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#69,812
#69,812
I believe the numbers are approximately:
CV c. 100 nm
Aerosol c. 10 micrometers
Cloth filtration c. 400 micrometers
 
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#69,813
#69,813
Vol737 said:
What’s the turn around time on a Covid test?? My daughter tested positive. Took the at home test on Tuesday (to return to campus this fall), overnighted it to the lab. Got a positive result back yesterday morning. That’s a quick turnaround time. Something is not computing with this. I’m going with her tomorrow to be tested by her doctor. Just want a second opinion. She’s asymptomatic other than the 20 year old freak out.
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I get my PCRs in 48 h
 
#69,814
#69,814
Vol737 said:
What’s the turn around time on a Covid test?? My daughter tested positive. Took the at home test on Tuesday (to return to campus this fall), overnighted it to the lab. Got a positive result back yesterday morning. That’s a quick turnaround time. Something is not computing with this. I’m going with her tomorrow to be tested by her doctor. Just want a second opinion. She’s asymptomatic other than the 20 year old freak out.
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I guess it depends on who's doing the testing? My dad was tested at a drive thru testing center in Franklin, TN and got the results back in 2 weeks. Luckily a negative. My son got his test from a Dr in Key West and got his positive result back in less than 48 hours.
 
#69,823
#69,823
C-south said:
People don’t wear a mask when the f***ing eat, drink, or swim. If someone has a hacking cough in front of you at the convenience store and passes the clerk a couple ones and they give you those couple ones back I’m sure you feel great knowing they at least had a mask on.
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I suppose I'd prefer that than watching them cover their maskless nose and mouth with their hand then handle the money.
 
#69,825
#69,825
BeecherVol said:
I'd prefer just walking out of the store myself.
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Hey buddy, how you been? BP holding steady I hope.

Yea, I was just answering the question. Im in the camp that wears one most of the time if nothing but to be polite, kinda like covering my mouth when I cough or sneeze. I'm absolutely amazed at the the level of controversy over this. Lol.
 
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