Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#71,428
#71,428
landscapingvol said:
Their cases are going up? Yes, they have had a small spike recently but they would have to reach roughly 900k infected just to reach Sweden’s current infection rate. That seems very unlikely considering they are currently at 40k with a population of 112 million. There are things you can do but many Americans refuse to do them
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So Japan has 1/3 our population, but 1500% more deaths, am I calculating this right?

Is someone using this as an example of why masks don't work?
 
#71,429
#71,429
tmHoTdr.jpeg
 
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#71,430
#71,430
Stew Cook said:
So Japan has 1/3 our population, but 1500% more deaths, am I calculating this right?

Is someone using this as an example of why masks don't work?
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?? Japan has roughly 1k deaths and 39k cases for a current death rate of 8 per one million people and an infection rate of 316 per one million people. They are the shining example not Sweden. Sweden is the shining example for some because they don’t think the US government should be doing anything but Sweden’s numbers pale in comparison to Japan. Sweden has a current death rate of 570 per one million people and an infection rate of 8069 per one million people.
 
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#71,431
#71,431
landscapingvol said:
?? Japan has roughly 1k deaths and 39k cases for a current death rate of 8 per one million people and an infection rate of 316 per one million people. They are the shining example not Sweden. Sweden is the shining example for some because they don’t think the US government should be doing anything but Sweden’s numbers pale in comparison to Japan. Sweden has a current death rate of 570 per one million people and an infection rate of 8069 per one million people.
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I don't trust my own math, but they have say 1000 deaths and we have 150000, but they have roughly a third of our population. I guess to be fair, we would have to correct our deaths to a third, or about 50,000. So, a we have 4,900% more deaths

eh, i suck at math, but seems right
 
#71,432
#71,432
Stew Cook said:
I don't trust my own math, but they have say 1000 deaths and we have 150000, but they have roughly a third of our population. I guess to be fair, we would have to correct our deaths to a third, or about 50,000. So, a we have 4,900% more deaths

eh, i suck at math, but seems right
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Density has a lot to do with rate of infection. NYC metro has a population over 1 1/2 times greater than the entire country of Sweden.

You'd be better off using Japan as an example.
 
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#71,433
#71,433
Stew Cook said:
I don't trust my own math, but they have say 1000 deaths and we have 150000, but they have roughly a third of our population. I guess to be fair, we would have to correct our deaths to a third, or about 50,000. So, a we have 4,900% more deaths

eh, i suck at math, but seems right
Click to expand...

The US has 60x the death rate of Japan when adjusted for population and Sweden has 70x the death rate of Japan when adjusted for population. Sweden has 25x the case rate when adjusted for population and the US has 47x the case rate
 
#71,434
#71,434
37L1 said:
Density has a lot to do with rate of infection. NYC metro has a population over 1 1/2 times greater than the entire country of Sweden.

You'd be better off using Japan as an example.
Click to expand...

I get that, and it plays into our numbers for sure. So, we would have to look at, say Tokyo, as far as Japan goes?

Japan, I imagine was better prepared, although I'm only drawing from my memory of seeing Japanese people commonly wearing masks before this pandemic.

I guess my point was that Japan is likely the worst candidate to use as an example of masks not working. But, I'm not saying that it proves anything, either.
 
#71,435
#71,435
Stew Cook said:
I get that, and it plays into our numbers for sure. So, we would have to look at, say Tokyo, as far as Japan goes?

Japan, I imagine was better prepared, although I'm only drawing from my memory of seeing Japanese people commonly wearing masks before this pandemic.

I guess my point was that Japan is likely the worst candidate to use as an example of masks not working. But, I'm not saying that it proves anything, either.
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It's hard to draw accurate comparisons when NYC alone has more deaths than the entire country of Sweden (23,000+ vs. 5,750+).

Then factor in other variables, age of population, cultural differences, density, living standards, general health of the population, how deaths by COViD are determined and by whom, etc., and it's difficult to accurately place fault or blame on responses, or lack thereof, by governments. To do so and think that you are being entirely fair, accurate and unbiased, is, well, just simply more politics than facts.
 
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#71,437
#71,437
BeardedVol said:
Urban Density Not Linked to Higher Coronavirus Infection Rates — and Is Linked to Lower COVID-19 Death Rates
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NYC says "Hi."

Article has this exception:

The authors conclude that a higher county population, a higher proportion of people age 60 and up, a lower proportion of college-educated people, and a higher proportion of African Americans were all associated with a greater infection rate and mortality rate.

Density v. "higher population" po tay to, po tot to.

Article is ageist and racist . . . suggesting that the higher educated, denser populated areas are smarter in reacting to the virus, then the older, black, uneducated, higher populated areas.

They say they have proved it.
 
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#71,438
#71,438
BeardedVol said:
Urban Density Not Linked to Higher Coronavirus Infection Rates — and Is Linked to Lower COVID-19 Death Rates
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That seems a bit misleading.

Wouldnt those higher density counties have direct ties to large metropolitan areas?

Yeah the article even explains that those dense counties are counting traveling workers for density but not sicknesses. further it doesnt explain how it adjusts for the surrounding counties, with less density, "losing" those numbers to the dense areas.

Seems reasonable to think people go into the city get sick, get counted, and then leave to be counted elsewhere later as a death/infection.

Seems theres a good bit of weighted info. They pull travelers for density but not illness. Why?
 
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#71,439
#71,439
37L1 said:
NYC says "Hi."

Article has this exception:

The authors conclude that a higher county population, a higher proportion of people age 60 and up, a lower proportion of college-educated people, and a higher proportion of African Americans were all associated with a greater infection rate and mortality rate.

Density v. "higher population" po tay to, po tot to.

Article is ageist and racist . . . suggesting that the higher educated, denser populated areas are smarter in reacting to the virus, then the older, black, uneducated, higher populated areas.

They say they have proved it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, not really, what it actually says is:

These findings suggest that connectivity matters more than density in the spread of the COVID-19 pandemic. Large metropolitan areas with a higher number of counties tightly linked together through economic, social, and commuting relationships are the most vulnerable to the pandemic outbreaks. They are more likely to exchange tourists and businesspeople within themselves and with other parts, thus increasing the risk of cross-border infections. Our study concludes with a key recommendation that planners continue to advocate dense development for a host of reasons, including lower death rates due to infectious diseases like COVID-19.

These findings are consistent with the literature that reports minorities are more likely to become infected during pandemics (Quinn & Kumar, 2014) due to a higher prevalence of underlying conditions such as hypertension, diabetes, and obesity. They also may have less recourse to workplace policies that enable social distancing. There are multiple reasons for having lower COVID-19 infection rates among counties with a higher percentage of educated individuals. In principle, workers with higher education are less likely to rely on public transportation, more able to work remotely, and more likely to have a better understanding of the virus and take shelter-in-place restrictions seriously (Lowcock et al., 2012).

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01944363.2020.1777891
 
#71,440
#71,440
37L1 said:
It's hard to draw accurate comparisons when NYC alone has more deaths than the entire country of Sweden (23,000+ vs. 5,750+).

Then factor in other variables, age of population, cultural differences, density, living standards, general health of the population, how deaths by COViD are determined and by whom, etc., and it's difficult to accurately place fault or blame on responses, or lack thereof, by governments. To do so and think that you are being entirely fair, accurate and unbiased, is, well, just simply more politics than facts.
Click to expand...
Great post.
 
#71,441
#71,441
landscapingvol said:
?? Japan has roughly 1k deaths and 39k cases for a current death rate of 8 per one million people and an infection rate of 316 per one million people. They are the shining example not Sweden. Sweden is the shining example for some because they don’t think the US government should be doing anything but Sweden’s numbers pale in comparison to Japan. Sweden has a current death rate of 570 per one million people and an infection rate of 8069 per one million people.
Click to expand...

I've always said, and will continue to say, this virus is going to run its course no matter what. Mask or not. Shutdown or not. We'll see in the long run how well Japan did against Sweden. I'm of the opinion Sweden got to the finish line faster and over the long haul Japan's and everyone else's total numbers will be comparable. The difference is Sweden will have opened up and got back to work sooner.
 
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#71,443
#71,443
rjd970 said:
I've always said, and will continue to say, this virus is going to run its course no matter what. Mask or not. Shutdown or not. We'll see in the long run how well Japan did against Sweden. I'm of the opinion Sweden got to the finish line faster and over the long haul Japan's and everyone else's total numbers will be comparable. The difference is Sweden will have opened up and got back to work sooner.
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I think some are thinking a vaccine, or otherwise better treatments will make the difference. I don't think the approach of containment is overly optimistic.
 
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#71,444
#71,444
LouderVol said:
But going back to what we started talking about Sweden isnt having to shut down businesses. So going back to your original question, that is something they are doing FAR better.

And just because something has been happening for a while doesnt mean it's ok, good, or should be accepted. If anything this current situation shows why our government should never have had the power to start. It's not a slippery slope argument when you are sitting at the bottom of the hill on your butt covered in mud.

And as far as the small percentages go there is a bigger difference in the economy deltas than there is in the population lost deltas. So if Swedens excess deaths compared to its neighbors matter at .05% compared to .04% I would think a +1% gdp difference is significant.

The question that the coronabros have never even attempted to answer is what level of economic loss, and associated suffering is acceptable to them. Right now all I hear is they dont care, they have to save every last life from Corona. Anyone else that suffers or dies doesnt matter. I just dont get the mindset, there is zero attempt at balance, and if anything they want to kick it even further out of whack.

How does one justify caring about only the loss from Corona? Imo it's so they dont have to face an guilt or self blame for the coming losses. "We did what we had to do", while stepping over who knows how much suffering.

At least under capitalism, it's fair. You are responsible for your own suffering. Under this government control bs, you arent even allowed to care for yourself with your job shut down, travel shut down, family visits shut down, hospitals closed to non Covid. How is that possibly fair?
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The only scoreboard that matters right now is the COVID dashboard. Those numbers must go to zero as quickly as possible. Luckily it’s harder to track suicides, homicides, domestic violence, etc. related to this situation so any increases there can be ignored. Some people are willing to subject a large group of people to a worse quality of life in order to potentially preserve quantity of life for another group of people.
 
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