Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

[AshG]

Still don't remember any of my doctors doing it. And only time my dentists wore a mask is when they were actually in my mouth working. Once the work was done, they were pulling them down or taking them off.

I have surgery on my leg in the office every week. I occasionally have surgery on my leg in a surgical suite. While the wound is uncovered, their masks are on.

I think I need to dial down the lexile score of some of my comments.

 

[ButchPlz]

Hrm... Large droplets that could contain other biological matter, yes?

You know instead of trying to entrap people you could Google it, click this link, and search "viruses" within it.

Hint: "Despite clear evidence that facemasks act to protect the theatre staff from macroscopic facial contamination, there are studies to suggest that they fail to protect surgeons from potentially hazardous sub-micrometre contaminants.21 This corresponds roughly to the size range of infectious bacteria while viruses are even smaller. Therefore, the protection that masks confer in the form of macroscopic facial contamination may not necessarily extend towards any microscopic infectious agents present within that contamination."

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I have surgery on my leg in the office every week. I occasionally have surgery on my leg in a surgical suite. While the wound is uncovered, their masks are on.

I think I need to dial down the lexile score of some of my comments.

Surgery... not routine activity.

 

[ButchPlz]

Surgery... not routine activity.

Even in surgery apparently the masks don't necessarily do sh*t for viruses and many bacteria, according to what I linked.

 

[volinbham]

Hrm... Large droplets that could contain other biological matter, yes?

yes - open wounds are considerably more prone to infection than are respiratory pathways or other natural body openings

 

[volinbham]

also masks during surgery protect the medical staff from splatter or other ways that biological matter from the patient could reach them.

 

[newyorkvol]

There are several things that surgeons do by convention to prevent infection. Masks during surgery can certainly stop large droplets like saliva or snot from contaminating a wound. But they have no effect on aerosols or other surface contaminants. And they also work as protection for the patients’ bodily fluids.

Consider this…surgeons scrub their hands and arms before surgery with antibacterial soap. And they are very careful not to touch anything during the scrubbing process. Then before putting on their sterile gown and gloves, they rinse off their freshly scrubbed hands with….tap water.

 

[AshG]

You know instead of trying to entrap people you could Google it, click this link, and search "viruses" within it.

Hint: "Despite clear evidence that facemasks act to protect the theatre staff from macroscopic facial contamination, there are studies to suggest that they fail to protect surgeons from potentially hazardous sub-micrometre contaminants.21 This corresponds roughly to the size range of infectious bacteria while viruses are even smaller. Therefore, the protection that masks confer in the form of macroscopic facial contamination may not necessarily extend towards any microscopic infectious agents present within that contamination."

Yeah. I get it. But THEY are wearing the masks to protect ME from THEM.

It was clear from the very beginning that the masks were not about stopping us from getting infected ourselves but to prevent us from accidentally infecting others in case we might be infected. Yet for some reason people are going ape over an email that says exactly that.

I think I'm just wired too differently to comprehend what all the hullabaloo is about.

 

[TheDeeble]

Even in surgery apparently the masks don't do sh*t for viruses and many bacteria, according to what I linked.

I always figured it was for liquids. Sweat dripping during a surgical procedure or possibly to prevent a little blood spatter/spray from hitting them in the face if they’re working around areas that bleed a lot.

But prior to last year I’ve never had a doc wear a face mask for anything other than a surgery.

 

[ButchPlz]

Yeah. I get it. But THEY are wearing the masks to protect ME from THEM.

It was clear from the very beginning that the masks were not about stopping us from getting infected ourselves but to prevent us from accidentally infecting others in case we might be infected. Yet for some reason people are going ape over an email that says exactly that.

I think I'm just wired too differently to comprehend what all the hullabaloo is about.

That's literally exactly opposite from what the quote says?

Also, how does that even make sense? It's not as if one side of the mask is denser than the other. Aerosols and virus sized particles pass through them both ways.

 

[volinbham]

Yeah. I get it. But THEY are wearing the masks to protect ME from THEM.

It was clear from the very beginning that the masks were not about stopping us from getting infected ourselves but to prevent us from accidentally infecting others in case we might be infected. Yet for some reason people are going ape over an email that says exactly that.

I think I'm just wired too differently to comprehend what all the hullabaloo is about.

If you are talking surgery then it's also to protect THEM from YOU. It's about liquid/droplet transfer back and forth.

The use for Covid is intended to be wearer protecting others rather than wearer being protected but even that has been twisted around by sloppy statements both from public health officials, politicians and the media. Even the former head of the CDC said (stupidly) that him wearing a mask would offer him more protection than a vaccination.

 

[AshG]

That's literally exactly opposite from what the quote says.

Yeah, I know. You are going from the direction of wearing masks for the protection of self. That is reflected in the quote you provided.

 

[volinbham]

Yeah, I know. You are going from the direction of wearing masks for the protection of self. That is reflected in the quote you provided.

and in surgery examples (like you asked about) protection of self is a key aspect of the use - it's just not for viral transmission

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Hrm... Large droplets that could contain other biological matter, yes?

Regardless, this is what Fauci has to say about masks.

 

[AshG]

and in surgery examples (like you asked about) protection of self is a key aspect of the use - it's just not for viral transmission

I understand that completely.

What I'm trying to get at is that the "ZOMG we've known all along that masks don't protect me me me and that's the only reason to wear them is me me me!" crew is acting like some smoking gun has been found that fully supports their position. It's much more nuanced and complicated and can't be boiled down into a single news byte.

The whole thing was a fluster cluck from the very beginning, and people are so addicted to their "side" being right that it clouds an objective analysis of the timeline. It's like the pandemic is just another football game.

 

[MAD]

I understand that completely.

What I'm trying to get at is that the "ZOMG we've known all along that masks don't protect me me me and that's the only reason to wear them is me me me!" crew is acting like some smoking gun has been found that fully supports their position. It's much more nuanced and complicated and can't be boiled down into a single news byte.

The whole thing was a fluster cluck from the very beginning, and people are so addicted to their "side" being right that it clouds an objective analysis of the timeline. It's like the pandemic is just another football game.

You are wasting your time, they aren’t able to comprehend it.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The whole thing was a fluster cluck from the very beginning, and people are so addicted to their "side" being right that it clouds an objective analysis of the timeline. It's like the pandemic is just another football game.

There were two groups of people. Those that wanted to run out and stir up a panic and act like the sky was falling and those that calmly assessed the risk and wanted to continue on with their lives as before... in other words, maintain the status quo as much as possible. The people pushing for changing our entire way of life are the ones getting all of the (justifiable) scrutiny now.

 

[volinbham]

I understand that completely.

What I'm trying to get at is that the "ZOMG we've known all along that masks don't protect me me me and that's the only reason to wear them is me me me!" crew is acting like some smoking gun has been found that fully supports their position. It's much more nuanced and complicated and can't be boiled down into a single news byte.

The whole thing was a fluster cluck from the very beginning, and people are so addicted to their "side" being right that it clouds an objective analysis of the timeline. It's like the pandemic is just another football game.

my beefs on the mask stuff:

1. Fauci admitted that he lied (misled) the public on the need for masks as a "noble lie" to avoid PPE shortages. He also did this with his estimate for herd immunity. This seriously undermines his credibility - when is he telling us the science™ and when is it a lie for the "greater good"?

2. Even after data showed those vaccinated did not need to wear a mask (particularly outdoors) Fauci insisted that science™ tells us that we still need to. He has since admitted that such mask wearing was really behavior modeling to encourage non-vaccinated people to continue to mask. IOW while he denied his mask wearing was hygiene theater both the data AND his later admission show him to have been misleading on this as well.

I'm not anti-mask but the story from our leaders was not only overdone but they knew it was not following the science yet they cloaked it in "the science" which our media faithfully enforced.

My only "side" is I'd expect our science leaders to both use science and tell us the truth.

 

[volinbham]

You are wasting your time, they aren’t able to comprehend it.

speak for yourself

 

[MAD]

my beefs on the mask stuff:

1. Fauci admitted that he lied (misled) the public on the need for masks as a "noble lie" to avoid PPE shortages. He also did this with his estimate for herd immunity. This seriously undermines his credibility - when is he telling us the science™ and when is it a lie for the "greater good"

2. Even after data showed those vaccinated did not need to wear a mask (particularly outdoors) Fauci insisted that science™ tells us that we still need to. He has since admitted that such mask wearing was really behavior modeling to encourage non-vaccinated people to continue to mask. IOW while he denied his mask wearing was hygiene theater both the data AND his later admission show him to have been misleading on this as well.

I'm not anti-mask but the story from our leaders was not only overdone but they knew it was not following the science yet they cloaked it in "the science" which our media faithfully enforced.

My only "side" is I'd expect our science leaders to both use science and tell us the truth.

Do you ever take into consideration that the science changes with new data and research?

 

[AshG]

my beefs on the mask stuff:

1. Fauci admitted that he lied (misled) the public on the need for masks as a "noble lie" to avoid PPE shortages. He also did this with his estimate for herd immunity. This seriously undermines his credibility - when is he telling us the science™ and when is it a lie for the "greater good"?

2. Even after data showed those vaccinated did not need to wear a mask (particularly outdoors) Fauci insisted that science™ tells us that we still need to. He has since admitted that such mask wearing was really behavior modeling to encourage non-vaccinated people to continue to mask. IOW while he denied his mask wearing was hygiene theater both the data AND his later admission show him to have been misleading on this as well.

I'm not anti-mask but the story from our leaders was not only overdone but they knew it was not following the science yet they cloaked it in "the science" which our media faithfully enforced.

My only "side" is I'd expect our science leaders to both use science and tell us the truth.

Quite honestly, I'm not trying to defend Fauci. I think he ended up suffering from a severe case of Limelight Flu.

I feel like I'm trying to defend reading comprehension and quality investigatory method. That's what I care about right now. But so many people are on these emails out of sequence, out of context, reframed for vilification, that centering and objectivity have been thrown out the window. There's more excitement than a puppy that just discovered it can lick its pecker.

 

[AshG]

Do you ever take into consideration that the science changes with new data and research?

Now THAT'S over most of their heads.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

2. Even after data showed those vaccinated did not need to wear a mask (particularly outdoors) Fauci insisted that science™ tells us that we still need to. He has since admitted that such mask wearing was really behavior modeling to encourage non-vaccinated people to continue to mask. IOW while he denied his mask wearing was hygiene theater both the data AND his later admission show him to have been misleading on this as well.

Clever

 

[volinbham]

Do you ever take into consideration that the science changes with new data and research?

absolutely - that doesn't explain the first #'d point; we have Fauci's own words about why he said we shouldn't wear masks.

likewise, the bulk of published data on likelihood that a vaccinated person could contract Covid AND infect someone else was extremely low - something Fauci and the CDC now say. In addition, the data shows (and the CDC Director misrepresented) that transmission outside (vaccinated or not) is virtually nil yet Fauci and CDC were saying wear the mask outside.

The science/data on the things listed above has NOT changed from the time of publication until now yet it was Fauci was claiming something different.

OTOH, things like sanitizing surfaces guidelines were changed as the data emerged. The mask wearing is a glaring example of not adjusting with data AND direct admission from Fauci that his recommendations were grounded in desired public health behavior despite the data

 

[volinbham]

Now THAT'S over most of their heads.

LOL - get over yourself