Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

[0nelilreb]

How exactly would that subject come up in casual conversation?

Well I mean if as you say “ common knowledge “ and considering we just went through a pandemic which the government is pushing a new vaccine , and the fact that flu shots are something that pushed every year to the masses , one would think at least a single conversation would have been had about the study and the fear of not taking any vaccine out of fear of the government .

 

[Septic]

Not rightfully so. Choosing ignorance is not the right choice.

Again, I'm no fan of government, but using what happened with Tuskegee as you rationale for your decision on this choice, is dumb.

It wasn't just Tuskegee that created the mistrust of the government and health care, it was simply the latest malfeasance perpetrated on them.

Under the shadow of Tuskegee: African Americans and health care.

 

[Septic]

It’s interesting that so many people think Trump supporters are waiting for someone to tell them to go get vaccinated. I’ve heard this in my day to day as well.

An interesting spin, I don't know of any trump supporters that are waiting on anything other than a miracle in Arizona or Biden to sh*t his pants on live TV.

 

[allvol123]

It wasn't just Tuskegee that created the mistrust of the government and health care, it was simply the latest malfeasance perpetrated on them.

Under the shadow of Tuskegee: African Americans and health care.

You can keep going down this road if you like.

1. Do you believe the CVS worker making $18 an hour is in on it?
2. Or that we have filled all medical positions with government agents (that hate black people).
3. Or there is a legtimate vaccine to keep white people safe and at the same time is designed to hurt black people?

I mean which is it? You can be skeptical, but once you start charting the path you're left with being ignorant if the reasoning for your choice is "black people have been wronged by medicine before."

To repeat, I dont care if any person chooses to get the vaccine or makes the choice not to get it. But to use the rationale spoken about here, as the reason not to get it, is dumb.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Well I mean if as you say “ common knowledge “ and considering we just went through a pandemic which the government is pushing a new vaccine , and the fact that flu shots are something that pushed every year to the masses , one would think at least a single conversation would have been had about the study and the fear of not taking any vaccine out of fear of the government .

That conversation has been had. You just haven't been a part of it maybe. Probably something that may not come up in a casual conversation unless you directly ask them about it.

 

[0nelilreb]

You can keep going down this road if you like.

1. Do you believe the CVS worker making $18 an hour is in on it?
2. Or that we have filled all medical positions with government agents (that hate black people).
3. Or there is a legtimate vaccine to keep white people safe and at the same time is designed to hurt black people?

I mean which is it? You can be skeptical, but once you start charting the parh you're left with being ignorant if the reasoning for your choice is "black people have been wronged by medicine before."

To repeat, I dont care if any person chooses to get the vaccine or makes the choice not to get it. But to use the rationale spoken about here, as the reason not to get it, is dumb.

It is interesting to watch them go down this rabbit hole though , I’m curious just how far they are willing to go .

 

[0nelilreb]

That conversation has been had. You just haven't been a part of it maybe. Probably something that may not come up in a casual conversation unless you directly ask them about it.

You mean you don’t believe I’ve had vaccine conversation talking about the pros and cons of getting it with anyone but a white person or do you mean I would have to specifically bring up the study to get them to talk about it even though it’s “ common knowledge in the black communities “?

 

[0nelilreb]

You mean you don’t believe I’ve had vaccine conversation talking about the pros and cons of getting it with anyone but a white person or do you mean I would have to specifically bring up the study to get them to talk about it even though it’s “ common knowledge in the black communities “?

Edit : Come on man !

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You can keep going down this road if you like.

1. Do you believe the CVS worker making $18 an hour is in on it?
2. Or that we have filled all medical positions with government agents (that hate black people).
3. Or there is a legtimate vaccine to keep white people safe and at the same time is designed to hurt black people?

I mean which is it? You can be skeptical, but once you start charting the path you're left with being ignorant if the reasoning for your choice is "black people have been wronged by medicine before."

To repeat, I dont care if any person chooses to get the vaccine or makes the choice not to get it. But to use the rationale spoken about here, as the reason not to get it, is dumb.

No silly... you are missing the point. The very fact that this thing was rushed and sent out is the issue. Like I have said. Most people don't think that there is a "white" vaccine and a "black" vaccine. I think the majority think that there is one batch that has the potential to now harm all of us.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You mean you don’t believe I’ve had vaccine conversation talking about the pros and cons of getting it with anyone but a white person or do you mean I would have to specifically bring up the study to get them to talk about it even though it’s “ common knowledge in the black communities “?

That is what I am saying. That isn't something that just pops up in random conversation.

 

[0nelilreb]

No silly... you are missing the point. The very fact that this thing was rushed and sent out is the issue. Like I have said. Most people don't think that there is a "white" vaccine and a "black" vaccine. I think the majority think that there is one batch that has the potential to now harm all of us.

For me it’s not a white , black , purple or green thing , you either trust that the government / and their experts won’t lie to you or you believe they will while manufacturing and manipulating stats to get you to do what they want you to . Simple .

 

[Septic]

You can keep going down this road if you like.

1. Do you believe the CVS worker making $18 an hour is in on it?
2. Or that we have filled all medical positions with government agents (that hate black people).
3. Or there is a legtimate vaccine to keep white people safe and at the same time is designed to hurt black people?

I mean which is it? You can be skeptical, but once you start charting the path you're left with being ignorant if the reasoning for your choice is "black people have been wronged by medicine before."

To repeat, I dont care if any person chooses to get the vaccine or makes the choice not to get it. But to use the rationale spoken about here, as the reason not to get it, is dumb.

It's not a road I created, many within the black community cite their community's mistrust in article after article. Including the one I doubt you took even a second to give a cursory look at. Your anecdotal beliefs are a feeble defense of what the community itself ascribes to.

Pointing out the rationale to you is not request for you accept it. In fact the article you disregard here cites numerous sources, though I'm sure though that your mile wide, inch deep understanding of the subject is good enough to undermine all of the references cited in this article as nonsensical.

These references are in PubMed. This may not be the complete list of references from this article.

• Gamble VN. A legacy of distrust: African Americans and medical research. Am J Prev Med. 1993 Nov-Dec;9(6 Suppl):35–38. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
• Swanson GM, Ward AJ. Recruiting minorities into clinical trials: toward a participant-friendly system. J Natl Cancer Inst. 1995 Dec 6;87(23):1747–1759. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
• Thomas SB, Quinn SC. The Tuskegee Syphilis Study, 1932 to 1972: implications for HIV education and AIDS risk education programs in the black community. Am J Public Health. 1991 Nov;81(11):1498–1505. [PMC free article] [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
• Savitt Todd L. The use of blacks for medical experimentation and demonstration in the Old South. J South Hist. 1982 Aug;48(3):331–348. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
• Daniel P. Black power in the 1920's: the case of Tuskegee Veterans Hospital. J South Hist. 1970;36:368–388. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
• Weisbord RG. Birth control and the black American: a matter of genocide? Demography. 1973 Nov;10(4):571–590. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
• Wilkinson Doris Y. For whose benefit? Politics and sickle cell. Black Scholar. 1974 May;5(8):26–31. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
• Blendon RJ, Aiken LH, Freeman HE, Corey CR. Access to medical care for black and white Americans. A matter of continuing concern. JAMA. 1989 Jan 13;261(2):278–281. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
• Wenneker MB, Epstein AM. Racial inequalities in the use of procedures for patients with ischemic heart disease in Massachusetts. JAMA. 1989 Jan 13;261(2):253–257. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
• Goldberg KC, Hartz AJ, Jacobsen SJ, Krakauer H, Rimm AA. Racial and community factors influencing coronary artery bypass graft surgery rates for all 1986 Medicare patients. JAMA. 1992 Mar 18;267(11):1473–1477. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
• Whittle J, Conigliaro J, Good CB, Lofgren RP. Racial differences in the use of invasive cardiovascular procedures in the Department of Veterans Affairs medical system. N Engl J Med. 1993 Aug 26;329(9):621–627. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
• Peterson ED, Wright SM, Daley J, Thibault GE. Racial variation in cardiac procedure use and survival following acute myocardial infarction in the Department of Veterans Affairs. JAMA. 1994 Apr 20;271(15):1175–1180. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
• Moore RD, Stanton D, Gopalan R, Chaisson RE. Racial differences in the use of drug therapy for HIV disease in an urban community. N Engl J Med. 1994 Mar 17;330(11):763–768. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]

 

[0nelilreb]

That is what I am saying. That isn't something that just pops up in random conversation.

Then it’s not common knowledge , which was my point to start with .

 

[LouderVol]

You can keep going down this road if you like.

1. Do you believe the CVS worker making $18 an hour is in on it?
2. Or that we have filled all medical positions with government agents (that hate black people).
3. Or there is a legtimate vaccine to keep white people safe and at the same time is designed to hurt black people?

I mean which is it? You can be skeptical, but once you start charting the path you're left with being ignorant if the reasoning for your choice is "black people have been wronged by medicine before."

To repeat, I dont care if any person chooses to get the vaccine or makes the choice not to get it. But to use the rationale spoken about here, as the reason not to get it, is dumb.

I dont think the Tuskegee arguement relies on the thought that the Covid vaccines are racist.

They could think the vaccines are bad for everyone.

Or they see the normal measures being circumvented by the government and think, here comes some more government bs ala Tuskegee.

Heck the government experiment may not even be medical/biological related this time. It could be psychological a nation wide white coat test, a test of some emergency roll out strategy, etc. Any number of nefarious tests, or at least mindsets, could be behind the vaccine. And tuskegee says that it's got historical precedence.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

Yeah, the twitter bots were out in force this morning fact checking and trying to debunk that earlier today.

Read that the cdc is studying the link between covid vaccine and myocarditis in young men.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

For me it’s not a white , black , purple or green thing , you either trust that the government / and their experts won’t lie to you or you believe they will while manufacturing and manipulating stats to get you to do what they want you to . Simple .

And most blacks are cynical on this issue. Unfortunately, not cynical enough on other issues where we trust the govt far too much. But in general, it is clear that now this govt has gone from terrorizing blacks and using us as the guinea pigs and have now expanded some of their practices to the larger society. That should be concerning to you.

 

[allvol123]

I dont think the Tuskegee arguement relies on the thought that the Covid vaccines are racist.

They could think the vaccines are bad for everyone.

Or they see the normal measures being circumvented by the government and think, here comes some more government bs ala Tuskegee.

Heck the government experiment may not even be medical/biological related this time. It could be psychological a nation wide white coat test, a test of some emergency roll out strategy, etc. Any number of nefarious tests, or at least mindsets, could be behind the vaccine. And tuskegee says that it's got historical precedence.

I can buy this.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Then it’s not common knowledge , which was my point to start with .

Or it depends on who the audience is when the subject comes up. Just because you have never heard someone talk about a subject doesn't mean they are ignorant of it. It could mean that they may not want to have that discussion with you in particular.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

May be some blacks don't, I never spoke in absolutes.

The Tuskegee study is often cited as a reason why blacks don't trust the government and especially its health care initiatives. it's not a comparison, some within the black community are using the study as a reason for their hesitance. You aren't being asked to agree or disagree and I'm not even suggesting it's a valid reason - but it is a reason being posited.



History Drives Distrust in Covid-19 Vaccines for Black Americans in Tuskegee

I'll bet if you mention that to 100 black people on the street, 95 of them won't have the slightest idea what you are talking about.

 

[allvol123]

No silly... you are missing the point. The very fact that this thing was rushed and sent out is the issue. Like I have said. Most people don't think that there is a "white" vaccine and a "black" vaccine. I think the majority think that there is one batch that has the potential to now harm all of us.

I am all for being skeptical about it for various reasons such as this....rushed, government incompetence, etc.,

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I'll bet if you mention that to 100 black people on the street, 95 of them won't have the slightest idea what you are talking about.

I would say closer to 40 wouldn't know. That's just me being a bit conservative about it.

 

[0nelilreb]

And most blacks are cynical on this issue. Unfortunately, not cynical enough on other issues where we trust the govt far too much. But in general, it is clear that now this govt has gone from terrorizing blacks and using us as the guinea pigs and have now expanded some of their practices to the larger society. That should be concerning to you.

This is where it’s not a black or white thing .. it’s a Sheeple thing . People want to believe their government wouldn’t hurt them , fear is the main motivation of getting the vaccine one way or the other and the government has had its grubby little fingers in these stats from the beginning. I’ll give you a great example of it being mindless sheeple following the governments wishes .. I’d bet a donation to any charity that you can walk up to 25 people in San Francisco and find 1 person that could tell you about operation “ Sea Spray” . Black , white or brown , and yet these people willing fall in line with every law and mandate the government puts out in the name of “ Public Safety “ Now if there’s a case to be made about a population being in fear of the government and not wanting to take anything new from them like a vaccine, the population of San Francisco has it .

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I'll bet if you mention that to 100 black people on the street, 95 of them won't have the slightest idea what you are talking about.

Just as a comparison, there was a big stir made last year during the riots about "Juneteenth". I bet 85-90 out of 100 would have had no idea what that was.

 

[0nelilreb]

Or it depends on who the audience is when the subject comes up. Just because you have never heard someone talk about a subject doesn't mean they are ignorant of it. It could mean that they may not want to have that discussion with you in particular.

Yeah I’m sure that’s it . I’ll have to get on to our neighbor for not wanting to have the Tuskegee Study conversation with me .

 

[Velo Vol]

There would be lines around the country if the tv guy came out and told his followers to get vaxed

There would be more vaccinations, but by no means would all Republicans jump. Remember, to the extent he thought it was politically advantageous, Trump has bragged about the vaccine.

He didn't create the conspiracy crowd, he just knew how to manipulate it.