Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

[PEPPERJAX]

"I meant what I said," pastor doubles down on church's mask ban

Greg Locke, pastor at the Global Vision Church, has told followers that they will be asked to leave 'the tent' if they show up in masks.

"We will escort you to the door," Locke said in a recent video from his RV in Florida.

"We are a place of faith, not a place of fear," Locke went on to say. "I'm digging my heels in and I'm not changing my mind."

Love thy neighbor unless they come into my congregation wearing a mask.

 

[McDad]

Love thy neighbor unless they come into my congregation wearing a mask.

It's a marketing ploy. He's trying to entice mask wearing protesters to attend the service so he can evangelize them.

 

[tpsdave]

Common sense is a rare commodity, regardless of denomination.

You're so right!

 

[volinbham]

So for the "why do people think DeSantis is doing a good job on Covid" question. Here's a comparison of Florida to 3 other states that went with very strict lockdowns and mandates on the following dimensions: 1) per capita death (per million), 2) % population over 65 (79% of Covid deaths occur in this age group), 3) unemployment rate (proxy for economic situation in the state and 4) vaccination rate (% fully vaccinated).

Florida: 1) 1808, 2) 20.5, 3) 5.0, 4) 48.6
New York: 1) 2787, 2) 16.4, 3) 7.7, 4) 56.8
California: 1) 1628, 2) 14.3, 3) 7.7, 4) 52.5
Michigan: 1) 2119, 2) 17.2, 3) 5.0, 4) 48.7

So despite having a higher proportion of at risk population Florida fared considerably better than New York and Michigan in Covid deaths per capita. California did better but has a relatively younger population. For reference, Florida ranks #2 in population over 65, California ranks #45. Second for reference, Florida ranks at about 25th for Covid deaths per captia; California is slightly better at about 18th. New York is #49 and Michigan is #12

Florida is below the national average in unemployment while the restrictive states of New York and California are considerably above the national average. Michigan is fairing the same as Florida.

So I'd guess the praise for DeSantis is that his limited restrictions do not appear to have been more dangerous for the population than those in restrictive states that either had worse (much worse in the case of NY) Covid outcomes and/or more severe economic consequences.

There are likely governors who had better outcomes but DeSantis showed that you don't have to lock down everything and exercise massive executive authority to have good outcomes.

 

[hUTch2002]

Are you kidding? You're misrepresenting what I said.

No rationale person would ever suggest that a mask STOPS the spread but it's common sense (and scientifically proven) that it HELPS to prevent the spread. You can tell that's what I meant by the way I used the word "HELPS" in front of "prevents the spread." Those were "my words."

Much in the same way a condom HELPS prevent the spread of STD's but they're not 100% effective in STOPPING STD's. This is the nuance I was talking about you guys lacking, it really doesn't take much effort to get here.

Stop attributing this hyperbolic black and white line in the sand to every argument.

The bottom line is the virus still spreads with or without masks. Hospital systems were never overwhelmed, including in areas that ditched mask mandates long ago. Time for you to PREVENT from spreading fear.

Edit: So what’s the point of masks now? We don’t need to slow the spread now. They don’t stop the spread so what’s the point?

 

[LouderVol]

So for the "why do people think DeSantis is doing a good job on Covid" question. Here's a comparison of Florida to 3 other states that went with very strict lockdowns and mandates on the following dimensions: 1) per capita death (per million), 2) % population over 65 (79% of Covid deaths occur in this age group), 3) unemployment rate (proxy for economic situation in the state and 4) vaccination rate (% fully vaccinated).

Florida: 1) 1808, 2) 20.5, 3) 5.0, 4) 48.6
New York: 1) 2787, 2) 16.4, 3) 7.7, 4) 56.8
California: 1) 1628, 2) 14.3, 3) 7.7, 4) 52.5
Michigan: 1) 2119, 2) 17.2, 3) 5.0, 4) 48.7

So despite having a higher proportion of at risk population Florida fared considerably better than New York and Michigan in Covid deaths per capita. California did better but has a relatively younger population. For reference, Florida ranks #2 in population over 65, California ranks #45. Second for reference, Florida ranks at about 25th for Covid deaths per captia; California is slightly better at about 18th. New York is #49 and Michigan is #12

Florida is below the national average in unemployment while the restrictive states of New York and California are considerably above the national average. Michigan is fairing the same as Florida.

So I'd guess the praise for DeSantis is that his limited restrictions do not appear to have been more dangerous for the population than those in restrictive states that either had worse (much worse in the case of NY) Covid outcomes and/or more severe economic consequences.

There are likely governors who had better outcomes but DeSantis showed that you don't have to lock down everything and exercise massive executive authority to have good outcomes.

Lower vax rate to go along with the older pop.

 

[Septic]

You are the one supporting, or at least threatening, these lockdowns.

Where the hell have I done that?!

Telling anti vaxxers who can help but refuse to vaccinate not to cry about it if it happens is not "threat" or "support."

 

[allvol123]

So for the "why do people think DeSantis is doing a good job on Covid" question. Here's a comparison of Florida to 3 other states that went with very strict lockdowns and mandates on the following dimensions: 1) per capita death (per million), 2) % population over 65 (79% of Covid deaths occur in this age group), 3) unemployment rate (proxy for economic situation in the state and 4) vaccination rate (% fully vaccinated).

Florida: 1) 1808, 2) 20.5, 3) 5.0, 4) 48.6
New York: 1) 2787, 2) 16.4, 3) 7.7, 4) 56.8
California: 1) 1628, 2) 14.3, 3) 7.7, 4) 52.5
Michigan: 1) 2119, 2) 17.2, 3) 5.0, 4) 48.7

So despite having a higher proportion of at risk population Florida fared considerably better than New York and Michigan in Covid deaths per capita. California did better but has a relatively younger population. For reference, Florida ranks #2 in population over 65, California ranks #45. Second for reference, Florida ranks at about 25th for Covid deaths per captia; California is slightly better at about 18th. New York is #49 and Michigan is #12

Florida is below the national average in unemployment while the restrictive states of New York and California are considerably above the national average. Michigan is fairing the same as Florida.

So I'd guess the praise for DeSantis is that his limited restrictions do not appear to have been more dangerous for the population than those in restrictive states that either had worse (much worse in the case of NY) Covid outcomes and/or more severe economic consequences.

There are likely governors who had better outcomes but DeSantis showed that you don't have to lock down everything and exercise massive executive authority to have good outcomes.

It's like you love crushing evil.

 

[LouderVol]

Where the hell have I done that?!

Telling anti vaxxers who can help but refuse to vaccinate not to cry about it if it happens is not "threat" or "support."

And the distinction from your high horse looks like what?

 

[Septic]

The bottom line is the virus still spreads with or without masks. Hospital systems were never overwhelmed, including in areas that ditched mask mandates long ago. Time for you to PREVENT from spreading fear.

Edit: So what’s the point of masks now? We don’t need to slow the spread now. They don’t stop the spread so what’s the point?

Jesus.

Hospitals weren't overwhelmed early on? LOL, ok.

'Very dark couple of weeks': Morgues and hospitals overflow

The U.S. Has Passed the Hospital Breaking Point

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/16/hospitals-covid-overwhelmed/

Overwhelmed hospitals scramble for help amid pandemic



Anyhoo...

The point is that the science shows that masks along with other measures can help prevent the spread. What is hard about this to understand?

This isn't my opinion. I've linked numerous peer reviewed studies based on emirical evidence that support what should be common sense. e.g. "Something" between you and sick person is better than nothing. If you can tell me that if you wouldn't rather have a covid person masked and coughing five feet from you than a non masked hacker, then you're either an idiot or too proud to admit that at some level you believe there's a benefit, however slight.

 

[Septic]

And the distinction from your high horse looks like what?

You don't understand the distinction in difference in this?

I don't currently support further lockdowns because they've already caused an irreparable harm on the economy and currently the hospital system is not overtaxed.

If however we do get to the point where hospital services start to stumble because they're busy taking care of anti vaxxers, I don't want to hear the unvaccinated grousing about lockdowns or other mandates.

I've already stated that getting vaccinated should e an individual choice, but so is me making fun of how stupid I think they are. Knife cuts both ways.

 

[LouderVol]

Jesus.

Hospitals weren't overwhelmed early on? LOL, ok.

'Very dark couple of weeks': Morgues and hospitals overflow

The U.S. Has Passed the Hospital Breaking Point

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/16/hospitals-covid-overwhelmed/

Overwhelmed hospitals scramble for help amid pandemic



Anyhoo...

The point is that the science shows that masks along with other measures can help prevent the spread. What is hard about this to understand?

This isn't my opinion. I've linked numerous peer reviewed studies based on emirical evidence that support what should be common sense. e.g. "Something" between you and sick person is better than nothing. If you can tell me that if you wouldn't rather have a covid person masked and coughing five feet from you than a non masked hacker, then you're either an idiot or too proud to admit that at some level you believe there's a benefit, however slight.

Now that they have coughed on your mask continue wearing it the rest of the day. Touch it about 2 dozen times with your hands, and probably use it again the next day.

Suddenly think its protecting you?

There is a difference between protecting against isolated exposure, what masks do; and protecting from continuous exposure, what masks dont do.

You are your studies are obtuse to the real world outcomes that show masks have no impact.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

Apparently Seinfeld is requiring all ticketholders to be vaccinated at his shows. Consequently the postponed May 2020 show that was supposed to happen here has been cancelled along with a bunch of others. I don't think venues/Ticketmaster want to wade into this mess.

 

[Septic]

Now that they have coughed on your mask continue wearing it the rest of the day. Touch it about 2 dozen times with your hands, and probably use it again the next day.

Suddenly think its protecting you?

There is a difference between protecting against isolated exposure, what masks do; and protecting from continuous exposure, what masks dont do.

You are your studies are obtuse to the real world outcomes that show masks have no impact.

No. Good grief.

Try to keep up - (aside from N95) the masks aren't for your benefit to keep the germs out. They're source control to help keep from spreading your gunk on others. A knock down barrier...

Disprove the empirically based peer revised science that says otherwise and collect your Nobel prize at the door.

 

[McDad]

You don't understand the distinction in difference in this?

I don't currently support further lockdowns because they've already caused an irreparable harm on the economy and currently the hospital system is not overtaxed.

If however we do get to the point where hospital services start to stumble because they're busy taking care of anti vaxxers, I don't want to hear the unvaccinated grousing about lockdowns or other mandates.

I've already stated that getting vaccinated should e an individual choice, but so is me making fun of how stupid I think they are. Knife cuts both ways.

The comparisons between areas/states/regions with high mask compliance compared to low mask compliance should be overwhelming then.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Many cultures do it out of the greater good mindset, they don't want to get others sick out of courtesy (among other reasons like smog.)

Our culture has proven that by and large, everyone is in it for themselves - I can't imagine a scenario where masks in public are widely accepted by all (culturally) for courtesy reasons.

That is the whole reasoning behind the 2nd Amendment. You can't always rely on the govt to save you or the benevolence of others. The life you save might be your own, so protect yourself.

Nobody is going to give a damn about your life more than you do, so you need to take whatever measures you need to do to survive...

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Yep - if I had to pick a single pet peeve that would be it. It is literally disgusting.

They need to make it a law to wash hands after restroom visits. Handshaking after not washing your hands should be a capital crime.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I think the vaccine rollout in Florida was handled about as well as it could have been. The messaging could have been better, but that's been true at pretty much all levels and certainly isn't an issue specific to Desantis.

That said, I have a major problem with restricting the ability of county or city governments to enact common sense mandates like masks or social distancing. Government works best the closer to the people it is. To say that Orange County or the City of Orlando should not be able to respond to a problem that might be confined to their jurisdiction is the exact opposite of conservative governance.

I'm on the fence on that but I can certainly see your point. I just think that many of these state and local officials have taken things too far. I would say that the mask mandates are one thing, but what they did last year with closing certain businesses and ruining the economy is just over the top and needed the state to step in to correct it.

 

[Grand Vol]

Jesus.

Hospitals weren't overwhelmed early on? LOL, ok.

'Very dark couple of weeks': Morgues and hospitals overflow

The U.S. Has Passed the Hospital Breaking Point

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/16/hospitals-covid-overwhelmed/

Overwhelmed hospitals scramble for help amid pandemic



Anyhoo...

The point is that the science shows that masks along with other measures can help prevent the spread. What is hard about this to understand?

This isn't my opinion. I've linked numerous peer reviewed studies based on emirical evidence that support what should be common sense. e.g. "Something" between you and sick person is better than nothing. If you can tell me that if you wouldn't rather have a covid person masked and coughing five feet from you than a non masked hacker, then you're either an idiot or too proud to admit that at some level you believe there's a benefit, however slight.

Here is my question...

When it comes to those that were hospitalized, how many truly "needed" to be admitted? Or was that part of the knee jerk reaction that the whole damn country went through when they didn't know what they were dealing with?

Remember, this virus was touted as being the next Black Plague when it first came out. I think there were probably a lot of places that erred on the side of caution and overreacted because of the lack of science in knowing exactly afar would happen.

Remember Cuomo demanding 50,000 ventilators and only using a fraction of them? Hospitals may have gone overboard (maybe even again) with the way they were treating this. Plus, every hypochondriac in the country probably hit the nearest ER when the media started freaking out again over the Delta strain.

 

[Septic]

The comparisons between areas/states/regions with high mask compliance compared to low mask compliance should be overwhelming then.

There's been high mask compliance? Anyhow it's a tool, like handwashing and hygiene and social distancing - individually they don't work as well as when they are all done together.

 

[LouderVol]

You don't understand the distinction in difference in this?

I don't currently support further lockdowns because they've already caused an irreparable harm on the economy and currently the hospital system is not overtaxed.

If however we do get to the point where hospital services start to stumble because they're busy taking care of anti vaxxers, I don't want to hear the unvaccinated grousing about lockdowns or other mandates.

I've already stated that getting vaccinated should e an individual choice, but so is me making fun of how stupid I think they are. Knife cuts both ways.

Why shouldnt they grouse or complain?

This is like saying people who dont arm themselves with a gun shouldnt complain when they are robbed.

Or now fat people should be denied health care because they are the ones actually straining the system. Now, during Covid peaks, and during normal times.

The high horse is due to your stance that vaccination somehow makes people different/better/right to complain.

The economy didnt shut down because suddenly 25% of the population was sick. Over 16ish months 1/10 of our population has been sick, that's cumulative. Hardly seems worrisome. To say the lock downs are due to sickness is flat out wrong. No idea what a "normal" year of sickness looks like, but I imagine more than 10% of the population has to take a sick day at any given point during 16 months.

There may have been more cases I didnt read about, but the only place where people were suffering from lack of care was NYC, after they turned away help. So forgive me not running around screaming whenever some alleged doctor on tiktok says their hospital is full.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

No. Good grief.

Try to keep up - (aside from N95) the masks aren't for your benefit to keep the germs out. They're source control to help keep from spreading your gunk on others. A knock down barrier...

Disprove the empirically based peer revised science that says otherwise and collect your Nobel prize at the door.

Like depending on a chain link fence to stop mosquitos...

 

[Vol737]

SIAP…

Atlanta back under mask mandate.

 

[hUTch2002]

Jesus.

Hospitals weren't overwhelmed early on? LOL, ok.

'Very dark couple of weeks': Morgues and hospitals overflow

The U.S. Has Passed the Hospital Breaking Point

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/16/hospitals-covid-overwhelmed/

Overwhelmed hospitals scramble for help amid pandemic



Anyhoo...

The point is that the science shows that masks along with other measures can help prevent the spread. What is hard about this to understand?

This isn't my opinion. I've linked numerous peer reviewed studies based on emirical evidence that support what should be common sense. e.g. "Something" between you and sick person is better than nothing. If you can tell me that if you wouldn't rather have a covid person masked and coughing five feet from you than a non masked hacker, then you're either an idiot or too proud to admit that at some level you believe there's a benefit, however slight.

I never said there was no benefit so now who’s the idiot? As always, it’s you. So what purpose are masks serving now? You sidestepped my point to drum up old fear articles. What’s the point today?

Edit: And stop calling me Jesus. It’s weird.

 

[NorthDallas40]

It's like you love crushing evil.

Who doesn’t