Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

[whodeycin85]

That report mentioned deaths too

Presumably death those deaths are part of hospitalizations..but we still are not told a true re-infection rate...cuz it being non tracked and withheld.

 

[whodeycin85]

That report mentioned deaths too

Presumably death those deaths are part of hospitalizations..but we still are not told a true re-infection rate...cuz it being non tracked and withheld.

so just spittballin' here but what's the likelihood that Delta is more resistant to the vaccines than we've been told?

had we been tracking breakthroughs that aren't hospitalized we'd have a better picture of this.

the problem with sharing that message is that it would conflict with the "get the jab" messaging

IOW, another case of telling us one thing to get us to do something rather than just presenting the science.

I'm not endorsing this theory, just throwing it out.

I would say its more resistant, other wise why stop tracking re-infection rates??? BIDENS CDC stopped H1N1 when the infection numbers were getting too high..why would this be different??

 

[volinbham]

Presumably death those deaths are part of hospitalizations..but we still are not told a true re-infection rate...cuz it being non tracked and withheld.

I would say its more resistant, other wise why stop tracking re-infection rates??? BIDENS CDC stopped H1N1 when the infection numbers were getting too high..why would this be different??

I think it's been established that it's more resistant - the question is to what degree. You are still better of vaxxed or having natural immunity.

I was suggesting that the CDC recognizes that telling the public that Delta is going to infect even the vaxxed would strengthen vaccine hesitancy so the messaging is that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

To reiterate - I'm not claiming that this is what's going; just throwing out one possible theory to explain why we just saw this major change in guidance.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Simple. Lockdowns did a TON of damage and you can’t prove they helped a damn thing. Foist that.

If the vaccinated are spreading the virus and lockdowns don't work, would I be crazy to say that maybe we should just open things up, live life as normal (no masks or mandates) and just let this thing just burn itself out through the population? Maybe that would speed up the process and be like pulling a bandaid off really fast instead of dragging this out with lockdowns and slowly ripping it off.

 

[NorthDallas40]

so just spittballin' here but what's the likelihood that Delta is more resistant to the vaccines than we've been told?

had we been tracking breakthroughs that aren't hospitalized we'd have a better picture of this.

the problem with sharing that message is that it would conflict with the "get the jab" messaging

IOW, another case of telling us one thing to get us to do something rather than just presenting the science.

It also conflicts with the "pandemic of the unvaccinated" narrative.

I'm not endorsing this theory, just throwing it out.

Had the same thought. I think we’ve seen enough to know the gov has lied to us at various points throughout this **** show and I’m wondering if they are again now.

Even Adm Giroir from Trump’s admin is ringing the warning bell on Delta. He made some pretty eye opening comments on people’s likelihood to contract the Delta COVID version if you haven’t seen it yet look it up.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Briefly:

- The percentages of hospitalized and (likely, eventually) deaths occurring in vaccinated people is going to go up significantly. This info is just lagging.
- These breakthrough infections are definitely NOT like what we see with all vaccines, as claimed by the article. They are due to a mutation in the spike protein, which is reducing vaccine efficacy.
- The fact that we are not counting or reporting the number of positive cases in vaccinated individuals in the U.S. is mind-numbingly stupid and inexcusable

I'll have more time later today if you have specific questions

You are being too kind because it appears as though you are blaming this on ineptitude. I think they know good and damn well what they are doing, which makes me lean more on them being deceptive.

 

[allvol123]

so just spittballin' here but what's the likelihood that Delta is more resistant to the vaccines than we've been told?

had we been tracking breakthroughs that aren't hospitalized we'd have a better picture of this.

the problem with sharing that message is that it would conflict with the "get the jab" messaging

IOW, another case of telling us one thing to get us to do something rather than just presenting the science.

It also conflicts with the "pandemic of the unvaccinated" narrative.

I'm not endorsing this theory, just throwing it out.

I mean just flat out nailed it.

Government exists in a state of incompetence that seems incomprehensible. Corrupt would be more appropriate than incompetent in many cases.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

so just spittballin' here but what's the likelihood that Delta is more resistant to the vaccines than we've been told?

had we been tracking breakthroughs that aren't hospitalized we'd have a better picture of this.

the problem with sharing that message is that it would conflict with the "get the jab" messaging

IOW, another case of telling us one thing to get us to do something rather than just presenting the science.

It also conflicts with the "pandemic of the unvaccinated" narrative.

I'm not endorsing this theory, just throwing it out.

No no no... don't say that. I said the same thing about a few days ago and was told that the vaccines were never advertised to be a full proof way to protect yourself from the virus. The purpose of getting the vaccine was to minimize the symptoms if you did catch COVID.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I think it's been established that it's more resistant - the question is to what degree. You are still better of vaxxed or having natural immunity.

I was suggesting that the CDC recognizes that telling the public that Delta is going to infect even the vaxxed would strengthen vaccine hesitancy so the messaging is that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

To reiterate - I'm not claiming that this is what's going; just throwing out one possible theory to explain why we just saw this major change in guidance.

The tone you are taking right now gives me the impression that you are starting to move towards the conspiratorial side of this (or believe that there is a false narrative being played out) but are hesitant to take one more step down the rabbit hole...

 

[volinbham]

Some possible scenarios explaining the change in CDC guidance:

1. It really is a pandemic of the unvaccinated so to motivate the hesitant the CDC is using the equivalent of making everyone run laps if some people on the team are slacking off. Make life uncomfortable and try to get the vaxxed push the unvaxxed so the punishment will be removed.

2. Delta is worse than expected WRT the vaxxed but instead of saying that since would slow uptake of the vaccine they go with the current line that even vaxxed might spread it so everyone has to mask up.

3. Delta isn't problematic for the vaxxed but there's a slightly greater chance it could be passed by the vaxxed so to eliminate all risk everyone has to mask up.

4. ?

# 3 appears to be the party line.

 

[volinbham]

The tone you are taking right now gives me the impression that you are starting to move towards the conspiratorial side of this (or believe that there is a false narrative being played out) but are hesitant to take one more step down the rabbit hole...

If you look at my scenarios below your post I'm going with a mix of #3 (I think CDC and Fauci have shown they will tolerate no risk nor care about the cost benefit tradeoffs) and #1 (carrot and stick to up the vax rate).

I don't think it's #2.

That said, we've already seen that they are prone to telling us what they think will get us to behave a certain way (model behavior as they say) rather than simply lay out the science as the rationale for guidelines.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Some possible scenarios explaining the change in CDC guidance:

1. It really is a pandemic of the unvaccinated so to motivate the hesitant the CDC is using the equivalent of making everyone run laps if some people on the team are slacking off. Make life uncomfortable and try to get the vaxxed push the unvaxxed so the punishment will be removed.

2. Delta is worse than expected WRT the vaxxed but instead of saying that since would slow uptake of the vaccine they go with the current line that even vaxxed might spread it so everyone has to mask up.

3. Delta isn't problematic for the vaxxed but there's a slightly greater chance it could be passed by the vaxxed so to eliminate all risk everyone has to mask up.

4. ?

# 3 appears to be the party line.

4. ? It is a crap shoot. The vaccine is minimally effective for the vaxed and this variant is indiscriminately affecting both groups at about an equal rate. To say it is an epidemic of the unvaccinated or of the vaccinated is where the deception is.

 

[allvol123]

No one ever discusses the third group, previously infected and not vaxxed.

 

[utvolpj]

Some possible scenarios explaining the change in CDC guidance:

1. It really is a pandemic of the unvaccinated so to motivate the hesitant the CDC is using the equivalent of making everyone run laps if some people on the team are slacking off. Make life uncomfortable and try to get the vaxxed push the unvaxxed so the punishment will be removed.

2. Delta is worse than expected WRT the vaxxed but instead of saying that since would slow uptake of the vaccine they go with the current line that even vaxxed might spread it so everyone has to mask up.

3. Delta isn't problematic for the vaxxed but there's a slightly greater chance it could be passed by the vaxxed so to eliminate all risk everyone has to mask up.

4. ?

# 3 appears to be the party line.

But even with #2 the effect of contacting it is reduced with a vax. Maybe it would slow since some could then say it's unnecessary? Idk. I'd say 3 too but with the belief it will still affect vaxxed more than they let on

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

If you look at my scenarios below your post I'm going with a mix of #3 (I think CDC and Fauci have shown they will tolerate no risk nor care about the cost benefit tradeoffs) and #1 (carrot and stick to up the vax rate).

I don't think it's #2.

That said, we've already seen that they are prone to telling us what they think will get us to behave a certain way (model behavior as they say) rather than simply lay out the science as the rationale for guidelines.

If you believe Scenario #1 or Scenario #3, then you believe that a false narrative is being pushed out either way. Either they are lying to us to scare the unvaccinated or they are lying to us to get the newly vaccinated to cover their faces.

 

[MAD]

UMich mandates COVID-19 vaccination for fall semester

The University of Michigan is requiring all students, faculty and staff to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19 and submit proof of vaccination before the beginning of fall term, President Mark Schlissel announced Friday. The vaccine requirement applies to Michigan Medicine and across all three U-M campuses.

 

[volinbham]

Some data that would helpful:

1. # of breakthrough cases including the change in rate and comparison of breakthough rate under Delta compared to other variants (appears we only have this for breakthroughs that were hospitalized or worse)
2. impact of masks on reducing spread - how much difference in infection growth do they make? I recall an earlier study that concluding the reduced the rate of growth by single digits.
3. impact of masks on child learning and development - hard to measure but my anecdotal experience in the classroom indicates learning was significantly impacted.
4. # of cases where breakthrough infection led to transmission to vaxxed or unvaxxed (the runaway Texas Democrats could be an interesting case study).

I'm sure there's more

 

[whodeycin85]

I think it's been established that it's more resistant - the question is to what degree. You are still better of vaxxed or having natural immunity.

I was suggesting that the CDC recognizes that telling the public that Delta is going to infect even the vaxxed would strengthen vaccine hesitancy so the messaging is that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

To reiterate - I'm not claiming that this is what's going; just throwing out one possible theory to explain why we just saw this major change in guidance.

I believe you correct....but i believe that vax infections are higher then a normal vax...otherwise....if re-infections rates were low it would a postive point for the vax. The fact they are focusing on specific cases is suspect

 

[volinbham]

If you believe Scenario #1 or Scenario #3, then you believe that a false narrative is being pushed out either way. Either they are lying to us to scare the unvaccinated or they are lying to us to get the newly vaccinated to cover their faces.

I don't doubt there's some degree of false narrative.

 

[C/O]

UMich mandates COVID-19 vaccination for fall semester

The University of Michigan is requiring all students, faculty and staff to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19 and submit proof of vaccination before the beginning of fall term, President Mark Schlissel announced Friday. The vaccine requirement applies to Michigan Medicine and across all three U-M campuses.

Lots of colleges and universities are. I know mine is.

 

[volinbham]

4. ? It is a crap shoot. The vaccine is minimally effective for the vaxed and this variant is indiscriminately affecting both groups at about an equal rate. To say it is an epidemic of the unvaccinated or of the vaccinated is where the deception is.

No data supports that.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

No data supports that.

I'm spitballing just like you are. My reasoning behind it is that I'm seeing data from one side saying that only the unvaxxed are dying from the variant, and data from the other side saying that the vaccinated are still coming down with the variant and having some anecdotal evidence of poor results.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. The variant is affecting both groups and that the vaccines are not very effective on this variant.

 

[whodeycin85]

No data supports that.

Do you know the exact numbet of vax that have be come re-infected, not just those hospitalized?

 

[volinbham]

But even with #2 the effect of contacting it is reduced with a vax. Maybe it would slow since some could then say it's unnecessary? Idk. I'd say 3 too but with the belief it will still affect vaxxed more than they let on

yes - I think I said that in an earlier post. Still far better to be vaxxed than not vaxxed.

 

[McDad]

If the vaccinated are spreading the virus and lockdowns don't work, would I be crazy to say that maybe we should just open things up, live life as normal (no masks or mandates) and just let this thing just burn itself out through the population? Maybe that would speed up the process and be like pulling a bandaid off really fast instead of dragging this out with lockdowns and slowly ripping it off.

I think this should be the approach now. Ostensibly, all the vulnerable who want to be vaxxed are vaxxed by now. So, everyone else (including the vulnerable) have made their decision.

The only caveat is, we don't want to overwhelm the health care system.