Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#100,801
#100,801
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm spitballing just like you are. My reasoning behind it is that I'm seeing data from one side saying that only the unvaxxed are dying from the variant, and data from the other side saying that the vaccinated are still coming down with the variant and having some anecdotal evidence of poor results.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. The variant is affecting both groups and that the vaccines are not very effective on this variant.
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well I had some data for my spit ball - we are seeing (if I read the graph right) more breakthroughs that are being hospitalized

I'd also say "not very effective" is not the right descriptor. I'd suggest not as effective as it was for other variants but still effective.
 
#100,804
#100,804
so this article has some interesting commentary given this discussion

Should we track all breakthrough cases of COVID-19? - Harvard Health

A surprise move from the CDC
Considering all that could be learned from studying vaccinated people with breakthrough infections, the recent CDC announcement seems surprising. CDC experts recently decided to stop tracking all breakthrough cases, and to instead focus on those requiring hospitalization. The official reasons given for this included:

  • Making cases of people who became sicker the priority allows the best use of resources.
  • Mild cases are not burdening the healthcare system, and seem unlikely to pose a significant threat of spreading infection to others. This last point remains unproven, however; while some studies have found that the amount of virus carried by people with breakthrough infections is low, making them unlikely to be contagious, we know there have been exceptions.
  • All the cases tracked from January through April of 2021 show no clear pattern that could advance our understanding of why they occur.
  • The CDC continues to study vaccine effectiveness in certain groups of people (such as healthcare workers) who experience breakthrough infections, and is collecting all breakthrough data from certain designated states.
There could be other reasons for the CDC’s decision. First, there’s the challenge of messaging around encouraging people to get vaccinated. Focusing on breakthrough cases may send a misleading impression that the vaccines aren’t effective. This might complicate efforts to battle vaccine hesitancy.

Second, some experts believe that the value of tracking cases that are rare and generally mild is marginal. This may be shortsighted: after all, some people who have had COVID-19 report persistent symptoms like trouble with energy and attention, headaches, and shortness of breath. This is known as long COVID, or more formally, as post-acute sequelae of SARS-CoV-2 infection (PASC).

Third, it may be too hard to get reliable data from health departments or doctors all over the country. Until we have a national registry of all cases, and every person gets regular testing after vaccination, we may never get a good sense of how common breakthrough cases are — or why they happen.
 
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#100,806
#100,806
volinbham said:
well I had some data for my spit ball - we are seeing (if I read the graph right) more breakthroughs that are being hospitalized

I'd also say "not very effective" is not the right descriptor. I'd suggest not as effective as it was for other variants but still effective.
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I'm assuming most of the data we are getting is slanted one way or the other. We're hearing cases of unvaccinated being hyped on one side and breakthrough cases of the vaccinated on the other side. My sense is that the truth lies closer to the middle based off of that. It may not be 50/50 split between the two groups... it could be 60/40 one way or the other.
 
#100,807
#100,807
AshG said:
Just heard from one of my specialists at UT Med who helped save my life in 2013. They've been told by hospital admin to "hold on to their asses" as their rate of fill in the ICU and Covid ICU are increasing noticeably.

This doctor also said that none of the dialysis patients who received the vaccine are producing antibodies. Their weakened immune systems combined with the dialysis treatmemts prevented their bodies from reacting to the vaccine and producing antibodies.
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I remember last year when all this started I heard a group of nurses and doctors from my neighborhood talking about the doom that was coming too. Literally none of what they said happened. Granted, that happens no matter what side of the fence people are on of any given topic.
 
#100,808
#100,808
hUTch2002 said:
I remember last year when all this started I heard a group of nurses and doctors from my neighborhood talking about the doom that was coming too. Literally none of what they said happened. Granted, that happens no matter what side of the fence people are on of any given topic.
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At the end of the day, 99.8% or even higher, of the world population, will not suffer the ultimate loss from this virus.

What world governments have done in response is probably the greatest mistake in our lifetime.
 
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#100,810
#100,810
Screw the CDC. Wanted more testing originally so they could track and scare people with the numbers game regardless of severity. Now when the reputation of their precious vaccine is going to get tarnished, they don’t want to track unhospitalized breakthrough cases?
 
#100,811
#100,811
volinbham said:
so this article has some interesting commentary given this discussion

Should we track all breakthrough cases of COVID-19? - Harvard Health

A surprise move from the CDC
Considering all that could be learned from studying vaccinated people with breakthrough infections, the recent CDC announcement seems surprising. CDC experts recently decided to stop tracking all breakthrough cases, and to instead focus on those requiring hospitalization. The official reasons given for this included:

  • Making cases of people who became sicker the priority allows the best use of resources.
  • Mild cases are not burdening the healthcare system, and seem unlikely to pose a significant threat of spreading infection to others. This last point remains unproven, however; while some studies have found that the amount of virus carried by people with breakthrough infections is low, making them unlikely to be contagious, we know there have been exceptions.
  • All the cases tracked from January through April of 2021 show no clear pattern that could advance our understanding of why they occur.
  • The CDC continues to study vaccine effectiveness in certain groups of people (such as healthcare workers) who experience breakthrough infections, and is collecting all breakthrough data from certain designated states.
There could be other reasons for the CDC’s decision. First, there’s the challenge of messaging around encouraging people to get vaccinated. Focusing on breakthrough cases may send a misleading impression that the vaccines aren’t effective. This might complicate efforts to battle vaccine hesitancy.

Second, some experts believe that the value of tracking cases that are rare and generally mild is marginal. This may be shortsighted: after all, some people who have had COVID-19 report persistent symptoms like trouble with energy and attention, headaches, and shortness of breath. This is known as long COVID, or more formally, as post-acute sequelae of SARS-CoV-2 infection (PASC).

Third, it may be too hard to get reliable data from health departments or doctors all over the country. Until we have a national registry of all cases, and every person gets regular testing after vaccination, we may never get a good sense of how common breakthrough cases are — or why they happen.
Click to expand...
Am I the only one who believes the bold, orange font, reason is more harmful long term. I simply want my government (who constantly asks me to trust it) to give me the honest, unfiltered scoop. Stop trying to play chess with my response to the data. Let the data stand on it's on merit or lack thereof. Playing the "what if" game with reactions by the public to straightforward information creates mistrust in my mind. I end up trying to cipher the agenda between the lines which impedes my taking the action the government wants; or the action which may be in my best interest.
 
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#100,812
#100,812
McDad said:
Am I the only one who believes the bold, orange font, reason is more harmful long term. I simply want my government (who constantly asks me to trust it) to give me the honest, unfiltered scoop. Stop trying to play chess with my response to the data. Let the data stand on it's on merit or lack thereof. Playing the "what if" game with reactions by the public to straightforward information creates mistrust in my mind. I end up trying to cipher the agenda between the lines which impedes my taking the action the government wants; or the action which may be in my best interest.
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Already there. Can’t trust any of their “science.”
 
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#100,814
#100,814
volinbham said:
so just spittballin' here but what's the likelihood that Delta is more resistant to the vaccines than we've been told?
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At this point, there's no doubt. I've been told that we should assume that nearly all CV19 here is Delta now, and a good number of positive cases and increasing hospitalizations are vaccinated.

Data from Israel (who has been actually keeping data) suggests that efficacy may only be around 40%, but vaccines do appear to offer more protection against serious illness.
 
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#100,816
#100,816
kiddiedoc said:
At this point, there's no doubt. I've been told that we should assume that nearly all CV19 here is Delta now, and a good number of positive cases and increasing hospitalizations are vaccinated.

Data from Israel (who has been actually keeping data) suggests that efficacy may only be around 40%, but vaccines do appear to offer more protection against serious illness.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't the gov tell us and quit calling it a vaccine?
 
#100,818
#100,818
evillawyer said:
Wearing a piece of light fabric across your face is very traumatic. I just hope he won't have PTSD when it's all said and done. These sacrifices we're asked to make for the civic good nowadays. Just unbelievable.
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You’re more used to it than everyone else due to your sex life…. The rest of us will eventually get used to it.
 
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#100,819
#100,819
evillawyer said:
My kids went 5 days a week, all year this past year. Strictly enforced mask and social distancing policy. Not one diagnosed case, teacher or student. Somehow the kids survived the trauma of masks.
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Cool story. My kids went 5 days a week, strict enforcement of masks and social distancing and there were cases every week, often multiple cases.
 
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#100,820
#100,820
evillawyer said:
The C.D.C.’s decision on masks rests on new data showing the Delta variant thrives in the nose and throat.
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Good Lord, when are people like you going to realize that they just pivot to try and keep the fear alive? Supposedly masks were originally required to slow the spread of the virus so that the hospital system wouldn’t be overwhelmed and it hasn’t been and isn’t in danger of being so. What are the masks for now? What’s funny is you’ll say the hospital system wasn’t overwhelmed because of masks but how do you know whether distancing or masks were the catalyst? Given what we’ve always known about masks, distancing seems like a much more effective “tool” to fight a virus.
 
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#100,821
#100,821
Wireless1 said:
I would like to be at the party where all this crap is being thought up. There must be some very mind altering stuff being passed around.
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Project MKUltra - Wikipedia

Project MKUltra (or MK-Ultra) is the code name given to a program of experiments on human subjects that were designed and undertaken by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), some of which were illegal. Experiments on humans were intended to develop procedures and identify drugs such as LSD to be used in interrogations in order to weaken the individual and force confessions through brainwashing and psychological torture. The project was organized through the Office of Scientific Intelligence of the CIA and coordinated with the United States Army Biological Warfare Laboratories. Other code names for drug-related experiments were Project Bluebird and Project Artichoke.
 
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#100,822
#100,822
Rasputin_Vol said:
Project MKUltra - Wikipedia

Project MKUltra (or MK-Ultra) is the code name given to a program of experiments on human subjects that were designed and undertaken by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), some of which were illegal. Experiments on humans were intended to develop procedures and identify drugs such as LSD to be used in interrogations in order to weaken the individual and force confessions through brainwashing and psychological torture. The project was organized through the Office of Scientific Intelligence of the CIA and coordinated with the United States Army Biological Warfare Laboratories. Other code names for drug-related experiments were Project Bluebird and Project Artichoke.
Click to expand...
:oops:
 
#100,823
#100,823
Rasputin_Vol said:
Project MKUltra - Wikipedia

Project MKUltra (or MK-Ultra) is the code name given to a program of experiments on human subjects that were designed and undertaken by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), some of which were illegal. Experiments on humans were intended to develop procedures and identify drugs such as LSD to be used in interrogations in order to weaken the individual and force confessions through brainwashing and psychological torture. The project was organized through the Office of Scientific Intelligence of the CIA and coordinated with the United States Army Biological Warfare Laboratories. Other code names for drug-related experiments were Project Bluebird and Project Artichoke.
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I dont see how anyonr in thier right mind would follow the government blindly....after thier history of experiments on citizens and military
 
#100,825
#100,825
Wireless1 said:
:oops:
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Yeah... experiments on humans... This poor guy was one of their own and wasn't safe:

Frank Olson - Wikipedia

Frank Rudolph Emmanuel Olson (July 17, 1910 – November 28, 1953) was an American bacteriologist, biological warfare scientist, and an employee of the United States Army Biological Warfare Laboratories (USBWL) who worked at Camp Detrick (now Fort Detrick) in Maryland. At a meeting in rural Maryland, he was covertly dosed with LSD by his colleague Sidney Gottlieb (head of the CIA's MKUltra program) and, nine days later, plunged to his death from the window of the Hotel Statler. The U.S. government first described his death as a suicide, and then as misadventure, while others allege murder. The Rockefeller Commission report on the CIA in 1975 acknowledged their having conducted drug studies.
 
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