Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#101,326
#101,326
volinbham said:
Well if 30% of people getting hospitalized from Covid are vaxxed it does suggest that vaccines are not as effective against getting seriously ill or dying as we once believed - that's what I mean. Hospitalizations in the UK have risen from just over 300/day at the beginning of July to 900/day now and that's with a highly vaccinated population.
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But there are multiple factors to consider. First, the most vulnerable population makes up the cohort with the highest percentage of vaccinated members. Should they contract the virus, they're the most likely to win up seriously ill even if vaccinated. Second, the fact that the largest percentage of infections is coming out of the smaller percentage of the populous that remains unvaxxed, the obvious conclusion is if more people get vaccinated the result will be fewer infections.
 
#101,327
#101,327
Rasputin_Vol said:
We need to be using the term "immunized" instead of "vaccinated".

If you've had COVID, you should be immunized and therefore no need for the vaccine.
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Except that reinfections are possible. Vaccination on top of natural immunity could only provide more protection. It certainly can't result in less protection.
 
#101,335
#101,335
bamawriter said:
That would technically be true, though incredibly aggravating.
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I know it’s true, Fauci told me so. But I could t be sure so I went with 3 masks; gaiter, surgical mask and N95 + a face shield and googles last week on my flight. It was a pain in the ass though when trying to sip my water. Lot of dressing/undressing to do between sips.
 
#101,337
#101,337
AthensVol2007 said:
I know it’s true, Fauci told me so. But I could t be sure so I went with 3 masks; gaiter, surgical mask and N95 + a face shield and googles last week on my flight. It was a pain in the ass though when trying to sip my water. Lot of dressing/undressing to do between sips.
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Like I said, incredibly aggravating. And it would pretty much defeat the point if you're going to bother sipping water.
 
#101,338
#101,338
evillawyer said:
Which studies?
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article252185473.html

"studies have found vaccine-derived antibodies are more robust compared to those from natural infection — and the job is done without causing illness or other long-term complications often brought on by the disease.

Two doctors from Italy compared the process of infection and vaccination in relation to variants to the plot of an action movie.

It “begins with a character (the virus) running freely across the globe, eluding capture until being finally sent to jail (built by natural immunity). However, if this prison is not secure enough, the virus could escape, aided by certain mutations,” Dr. Emanuele Andreano and Dr. Rino Rappuoli of the Monoclonal Antibody Discovery Lab, wrote in Nature. “Vaccine-induced immunity… should help ensure those escape routes are securely closed.”

An April study that has not been peer-reviewed found that two doses of either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines offered 10 times higher levels of antibodies compared to those developed after natural infection.

Another April paper showed that people who were previously infected with the coronavirus experienced significant boosts in their preexisting antibodies after two doses of the Pfizer vaccine, which also offered protection against coronavirus variants."
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Once again I’m sad I lost my facepalm emoji.
 
#101,340
#101,340
bamawriter said:
Do I need to be? More layers could only keep in more particles. Unless it's like a condom, where double bagging it increases the risk of tearing both. Is it like that?
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What a douche comment.
I am no expert myself but I do deal occasionally with Breathing Air and all the time for general compressed air filtration applications., including NFPA99 standards for hospitals at times. The particulate size matters and one must (obviously) consume a set volume of O2 to live. You have 2 masks, you still try and consume the same volume of air by exertion. Those particular micron particles are inhaled and this extra exertion in trying to consume the needed oxygen to live just creates more vacuum to pull thru the pressure drop.
Just like N95, they are only 95% effective to a certain particle size.
 
#101,341
#101,341
Orangeburst said:
What a douche comment.
I am no expert myself but I do deal occasionally with Breathing Air and all the time for general compressed air filtration applications., including NFPA99 standards for hospitals at times. The particulate size matters and one must (obviously) consume a set volume of O2 to live. You have 2 masks, you still try and consume the same volume of air by exertion. Those particular micron particles are inhaled and this extra exertion in trying to consume the needed oxygen to live just creates more vacuum to pull thru the pressure drop.
Just like N95, they are only 95% effective to a certain particle size.
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I guess it would depend on the mask. I put on 2 and rode my bike for an hour to show my kids that wearing a mask at Disney World was no big deal. O2 still read 98.
 
#101,342
#101,342
bamawriter said:
I guess it would depend on the mask. I put on 2 and rode my bike for an hour to show my kids it was no big deal. O2 still read 98.
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Well, you had to breath harder, hence pulled more vacuum to maintain the 98. You sucked in just as much particulate as you would with one mask. You must be from Hoover Vacuum, AL.
 
#101,343
#101,343
bamawriter said:
Again, not sure I'd agree with "staggering." More than 65% of the adult population of the UK is vaccinated. Over 90% of those over 70 years old. At a certain point, the larger the percentage of a total population that is vaccinated, the larger the percentage of those infected or hospitalized that are vaccinated will have to increase. Nothing else is mathematically possible. The key is that the former percentage rises faster than the latter.

There was an article posted here about a month ago dealing with Israel's Delta cases. It read almost half of Israel's Covid infections have come from vaccinated individuals. Even if we go with the largest possible definition of "almost half," 49.9% of Delta cases coming out of more the more than 85% of Israelis that are vaccinated suggests that the vaccines are very effective at warding off infection.

I think the US is a decent case study because we are really close to 50/50 vaxxed/unvaxxed at the present time. So we can get numbers from roughly equal populations.
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Very effective is what 3x better, but not the 25x, or even the 8x time that has been thrown around.
 
#101,344
#101,344
evillawyer said:
Another thing to consider on the natural immunity vs. vaccine immunity debate. Many of those whose bodies failed to generate a robust immune response to covid simply died. Therefore one group (the previously infected) has already had those with the weakest immune systems filtered out from it by default. In contrast, the vaccinated but not previously infected group includes lots of people with compromised immune systems.
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Vaccinated immunocompromised people have been told to act as if they haven't been vaccinated at all.
 
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#101,345
#101,345
bamawriter said:
Except that reinfections are possible. Vaccination on top of natural immunity could only provide more protection. It certainly can't result in less protection.
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Based on????

We have had it explained that the mRNA vaccine changes the detection of 1 specifc protein of Covid. A protein that is different in delta, hence less protection.

We havent seen any literature that natural immunity suffers the same reduction, or that the one protein is not something our body recognizes after infection.
 
#101,347
#101,347
If it's really about protection, and the benefits stack the CDC should be recommending people get the vaccine, and then get sick. I mean if we really want people to be safe, two sources of immunizations must be better than one.
 
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#101,349
#101,349
LouderVol said:
If it's really about protection, and the benefits stack the CDC should be recommending people get the vaccine, and then get sick. I mean if we really want people to be safe, two sources of immunizations must be better than one.
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Like multiple masks...90% x 85% x 70% (Phizer x Moderna x J&J)=

1628029391804.jpeg
 
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