Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

[allvol123]

“Maybe the most perplexing sin of the public health establishment is that it abandoned the essential commitment to science.”

“Public health bureaucrats operated more like dictators than scientists during the pandemic, sealing themselves off from credible outside criticism.”

If the institutions of the United States government cannot be trusted to act in the best interest of the health of those they serve, what can they be trusted with?

I’m not sure why anyone would be surprised how “public health” bureaucrats behaved. Did anyone believe they are different than other bureaucrats?

 

[brockytop]

here's the data - most interesting thing to me is the % with updated boosters. combined with the decline in all other measures it doesn't make a compelling case for getting the booster.

View attachment 538932

Ya reckon?

 

[AM64]

Would you agree that right now we have at least one agency saying, with low confidence, that a lab accidentally released it, and at least some other agencies, saying with low or at best medium confidence, that it was a natural mutation?

If so, I hardly see why all the conspiracy theorizing and gloating from the usual suspects, though of course you have not needed a reason before.

Here's the thing - very simplified.

A. Over a long span of years humans were unaffected by bats infected with the corona virus.

B. Virologist Shi Zhengli travels around China collecting samples from caves where infected bats hang out, and brings the samples to a virology lab in Wuhan, China where researchers conduct gain of function (GOF) testing that would allow the virus infecting bats to spread to other species.

C. One fine day people in Wuhan start becoming ill, and a virus spread rampantly through the city. Turns out it is a corona virus we now know as Covid-19.

D. China basically seals off Wuhan as the infection spreads, claiming it was nature "came from a wet market". Yeah, there's a virology lab in town studying this kind of virus, "but we din't do nuffin."

E. China continues to disavow all blame, and we start finding researchers and grants from the US supporting GOF testing in the Wuhan lab ... and US interests start the "we din't do nuffin either" routine.

F. Everybody involved around the globe does the CYA thing ... couldn't happen, didn't happen, "studies why it wasn't manmade" etc. While in the background there are the "we didn't, did we?" "it couldn't have been, could it?" memos floated around.

G. Turns out the Wuhan lab did in fact create and infect "humanized mice" with a virus that started from bat corona virus.

H. The virus that struck down Wuhan went worldwide in short order - amazingly fast. So all the sudden the human population which seemed to be immune to a virus found in Chinese bats is hit with a disease that spread across the globe and infected and killed millions. A virus without human immune defense spread across the globe only after GOF researchers in the lab where the disease started had played Dr. Frankenstein.

I. My conclusion: Researchers at the Wuhan virology lab created the new virus and lost containment - probably accidentally through sloppy procedures. There's a lot written about the lab itself and what levels of security exist and when they are applied (or not) for anyone who wants to find it.

Yep, that is connecting the dots and finding correlation without proving causation - no question. Unfortunately the Chinese have pretty much insured that a real study that might definitively show connection wasn't done and can't be done in the future. As an engineer who has done a lot of testing and analysis over the years, I've learned very well not to jump to a conclusion and then try to prove it; the best approach by far is to test and see where the data lead. The data may tell you that you have to refine and test differently, but eventually it will lead you to a conclusion. BUT you have to be allowed to test and analyze to get there, and China has blocked that. Generally when somebody blocks something that affects them as much as anyone else, there is something to hide. BTW, I thought the DOE connection was interesting, too, until thinking back to my graduate assistantship and research at Oak Ridge (a National Lab under the DOE).

My thought is that someone screwed up in the lab and infected himself/herself and spread the virus. Chinese scientists have been caught selling infected lab animals to food suppliers, so there could be a wet market connection while the real cause was still the lab itself.

My final thought is WTH are we trying to develop deadly mutant viruses for which mankind has no immunity, and who is going to stop it before something really bad happens?

 

[Orangeburst]

Here's the thing - very simplified.

A. Over a long span of years humans were unaffected by bats infected with the corona virus.

B. Virologist Shi Zhengli travels around China collecting samples from caves where infected bats hang out, and brings the samples to a virology lab in Wuhan, China where researchers conduct gain of function (GOF) testing that would allow the virus infecting bats to spread to other species.

C. One fine day people in Wuhan start becoming ill, and a virus spread rampantly through the city. Turns out it is a corona virus we now know as Covid-19.

D. China basically seals off Wuhan as the infection spreads, claiming it was nature "came from a wet market". Yeah, there's a virology lab in town studying this kind of virus, "but we din't do nuffin."

E. China continues to disavow all blame, and we start finding researchers and grants from the US supporting GOF testing in the Wuhan lab ... and US interests start the "we din't do nuffin either" routine.

F. Everybody involved around the globe does the CYA thing ... couldn't happen, didn't happen, "studies why it wasn't manmade" etc. While in the background there are the "we didn't, did we?" "it couldn't have been, could it?" memos floated around.

G. Turns out the Wuhan lab did in fact create and infect "humanized mice" with a virus that started from bat corona virus.

H. The virus that struck down Wuhan went worldwide in short order - amazingly fast. So all the sudden the human population which seemed to be immune to a virus found in Chinese bats is hit with a disease that spread across the globe and infected and killed millions. A virus without human immune defense spread across the globe only after GOF researchers in the lab where the disease started had played Dr. Frankenstein.

I. My conclusion: Researchers at the Wuhan virology lab created the new virus and lost containment - probably accidentally through sloppy procedures. There's a lot written about the lab itself and what levels of security exist and when they are applied (or not) for anyone who wants to find it.

Yep, that is connecting the dots and finding correlation without proving causation - no question. Unfortunately the Chinese have pretty much insured that a real study that might definitively show connection wasn't done and can't be done in the future. As an engineer who has done a lot of testing and analysis over the years, I've learned very well not to jump to a conclusion and then try to prove it; the best approach by far is to test and see where the data lead. The data may tell you that you have to refine and test differently, but eventually it will lead you to a conclusion. BUT you have to be allowed to test and analyze to get there, and China has blocked that. Generally when somebody blocks something that affects them as much as anyone else, there is something to hide. BTW, I thought the DOE connection was interesting, too, until thinking back to my graduate assistantship and research at Oak Ridge (a National Lab under the DOE).

My thought is that someone screwed up in the lab and infected himself/herself and spread the virus. Chinese scientists have been caught selling infected lab animals to food suppliers, so there could be a wet market connection while the real cause was still the lab itself.

My final thought is WTH are we trying to develop deadly mutant viruses for which mankind has no immunity, and who is going to stop it before something really bad happens?

Another scary part is where the MSM took such issue with calling out the Virus that reflected some wokeism of negative affect on the CCP.
Look no further than the CCP giving Penn State $70M..My goodness people need to wake up.

The CCP has infected our gov, institutions and labs

 

[Orangeburst]

The traitors are among us.

Remember Biden saying that the CCP was not a threat? And 81M voted for that?
Remember when Biden said he did not know of his son's dealings in Ukraine?

 

[Orangeburst]

America First my ass.

 

[Sea Ray]

Bad day for the Public Health establishment (this is where I found out reference to the Norfolk Group)

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...hattacharya_the_american_people_deserve_.html

Liberals and the MSM media are now scrambling to find dirt on those Drs that testified. They're looking for stuff in their past that's discredit them. By golly someone voted for Trump or something sinister like that

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So if Trump says it, don’t believe it.

Whoopi Goldberg: ‘Politics Got in the Way’ of the Truth on Lab Leak Theory

 

[kiddiedoc]

So, now that we know

Masks didn't work
Lockdowns didn't work
Schools should have never closed
Kids weren't at risk
mRNA shots would not end the pandemic
Shots do actually have the risk of adverse events,

How many of you guys have received an apology from the people (even friends and family) that berated, harassed, threatened, and even reported you for spreading "misinformation?"

 

[kiddiedoc]

So if Trump says it, don’t believe it.

Whoopi Goldberg: ‘Politics Got in the Way’ of the Truth on Lab Leak Theory

“He’s right. The politics got in the way of a lot of looking for the truth,”
- Goldberg

Right there you have, in a nutshell, why you should never, never trust the "progressive" left movement.

 

[Sea Ray]

The media and big tech are still suppressing information on myocarditis of the vaccine being worse than after infection. Google searches won't show such research

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

How many of you guys have received an apology from the people (even friends and family) that berated, harassed, threatened, and even reported you for spreading "misinformation?"

 

[Vol737]

So, now that we know

Masks didn't work
Lockdowns didn't work
Schools should have never closed
Kids weren't at risk
mRNA shots would not end the pandemic
Shots do actually have the risk of adverse events,

How many of you guys have received an apology from the people (even friends and family) that berated, harassed, threatened, and even reported you for spreading "misinformation?"

Never. They either double down or triple down on the false, bs talking points even when confronted with the facts and contradictions to what they believed, or avoid the conversation all together. I mean, Pfizer, et al are still running commercials about getting your 3rd, 4th round of "vaccine". Have you seen the commercial with John Legend?? Total propaganda. My SIL literally told my wife..."I haven't been feeling that great. I may go get a booster shot in case I have Covid." Good Lord! She has placed her faith entirely in this pseudo science.

 

[AM64]

The information came from scientists. Those scientists were called fringe (even by Fauci and Collins). Scientists pushing these ideas were blocked, shadow banned and more.

Someone on Fox telling what these scientists said are being no more political than someone MSNBC who mocks it.

You so badly want to believe your party line that you have resort to defending the reaction to the lab leak theory as legitimate. The people labeling it so were wrong - and they were just a political as the people promoting the theory.

The climate change mafia had already paved the way for marginalizing anyone who would dare take an opposing stance. There are probably other examples, but climate change and covid natural origination deniers have probably been more brutally mocked by pseudo-scientists than any other groups in recent history. You'd have to go to religion to find anything equally brutal concerning opposing opinion; at least we have moved beyond torture and burning people at the stake for straying from a party line.

 

[VOLS INC.]

Brutal. And so damn deserved.

This is incredible.

 

[85SugarVol]

 

[85SugarVol]

I'm gonna make a prediction. In about 10-15 years, Democrats are going to try to pull with the forced vaccinations what they did with their racism. You know, how they swear the parties were reversed back then, and it was actually republicans who started the kkk, voted no to end slavery, etc. They're going to say it was actually the republicans who voted to force people to get vaccinated or get fired, while allowing illegals to come in without being even tested. LG, El and the crew will be swearing the parties swapped

They won’t be that bold lol.

But they will absolutely rage over the increased wealth gap inequality that their own measures clearly exacerbated.

And they will no doubt look to lay that blame at others feet.

The pandemic response itself has wrought tremendous collateral harm. There's now broad agreement that the school closures, in some states running a year or more, have set kids behind in ways that will lead them to worse outcomes as adults, including shorter, poorer lives.

These losses are unequally distributed with poor and minority children, who are suffering the worst learning losses. Hundreds of thousands of kids never returned to school when schools opened.

anyone else remember @Velo Vol hyping those $600 payments as a great mitigating factor? Good times.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

OK, you're an opinion I trust 'cause you're on the front lines. So in your experience, there's no significance to Covid hospitalizations right now. (I'm sure occasionally a person in frail health is hospitalized for flu, Covid or whatever). So here's my question: How can our gov't (CDC etc) continue to push the narrative that C19 vax keeps you out of the hospital? Maybe my view is wrong but IMO they're still pushing that 'cause that's all that's left. They can no longer push that it keeps you from getting infected or that it keeps you from spreading it. If they lose the hospitalization narrative, they got nothin'

It’s quite simple, they are lying.

 

[Orangeburst]

Remember when the NYT published all COVID content for free? Wonder if they will open that back up.

 

[StarRaider]

Remember when the NYT published all COVID content for free? Wonder if they will open that back up.

 

[AM64]

I maintain that a lot of this was driven by context. If such a panelist started off with "The China virus was the result of a lab leak..." it just went off the rails by then because it would have been immediately apparent that they reached a conclusion in search of a theory to support it.

Look at it a different way. A virus that's been around in bat populations didn't mutate and spread to people adjacent to the bat caves. Instead, ground zero for the virus was in a city where there was a lab studying the virus and performing gain of function testing; where gain of function is specifically the laboratory modification of a virus to enable the virus to cross from the original infected species to a different species. That's a little beyond just coincidence. Does it prove the virus escaped from the lab? No, but there's definitely no reason to rule it out.

If I'm testing equipment and vary one input and something else happens, it's very likely the two are related. For example, I change coolant flow and some connected piece of equipment overheats, I'm definitely going with the two are related and not the thought that the other piece of equipment had some unrelated anomaly.

 

[AM64]

It shows up in the emails and he's said it publicly. Worries about how it reflects on science and scientists (including Chinese scientists).

More cynically, it is a major argument against GOF style research that he (and Collins) were major proponents of - so much so that they skirted the rules and gamed the "transparency" requirements to continue funding it.

It is the latter that puts him in bad actor territory for me - his desire to protect his beloved (though ethically challenged and legally barred) research made him "hide the evidence" so to speak. That and he has a massive ego (I'm the science".

It's seemed from the start that Fauci and company couldn't do gain of function testing here in the US, they shipped it off to China, and it blew up in their faces ... and ours. Science should explore and expand boundaries, but never in an unsafe manner. We do work to develop newer more deadly weapons, of course (and unfortunately); but the thought of medical experimentation to develop even in a laboratory an incontrollable disease for which no known cure exists is unconscionable. This kind of stuff ranks right up there with the "experiments" Nazis were doing in WW2, and those were considered war crimes.

 

[rekinhavoc]

5 Reasons You Shouldn’t Ask Your Doctor to Prescribe Meds You See on TV

Big pharma is on your side.....

 

[davethevol]

It's seemed from the start that Fauci and company couldn't do gain of function testing here in the US, they shipped it off to China, and it blew up in their faces ... and ours. Science should explore and expand boundaries, but never in an unsafe manner. We do work to develop newer more deadly weapons, of course (and unfortunately); but the thought of medical experimentation to develop even in a laboratory an incontrollable disease for which no known cure exists is unconscionable. This kind of stuff ranks right up there with the "experiments" Nazis were doing in WW2, and those were considered war crimes.

Which is why Fauci was so so quick to change the narrative and to use the federal government to silence professionals speaking out. He absolutely should face the death penalty for his actions and involvement in this virus manipulation. People like Stalin, Lenin, and Mao are responsible for millions of deaths. So is Fauci.

 

[AM64]

Which is why Fauci was so so quick to change the narrative and to use the federal government to silence professionals speaking out. He absolutely should face the death penalty for his actions and involvement in this virus manipulation. People like Stalin, Lenin, and Mao are responsible for millions of deaths. So is Fauci.

Death penalty may be a bit much - not saying it's undeserved though. I think in so many cases that we don't do enough to go after management for corporate conduct; Fauci should fall in this category. Fines just become a cost of doing business; accountability requires making flawed (being kind) decisions personal. Otherwise research of this nature, pushing unsafe products (either knowingly or willing to gamble on other's lives and safety), and risking people's security will continue. I'm not sure how you handle the difference between individual decisions and group decisions, but I certainly agree with you that Fauci his GOF associates killed and harmed more than even Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, and Mao.