Leonard Fournette Sitting Out Citrus Bowl

#102
#102
vol66 said:
The main argument against going to a full fledged playoff system was that it would render the bowls meaningless. Welp...

Every time a coach leaves a school before the end of his contract, isn't he "quitting on the team", letting down all the players he recruited in the process. No one has an issue with coaches putting their career ahead of team.

The argument against paying players is that they are amateur student athletes and if they don't think a degree is "enough pay" they don't have to play...Welp...

If Barnett, Dobbs, Kamara all said no to the bowl game, I'd have no issue with it. I'm glad they have decided to play for selfish fan reasons, but it's up to them as far as I'm concerned.
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I've never understood this argument, because most of the bowls have been "meaningless" for a long time. I'd argue the lower ones have been pretty much ignored for a long time, but especially since the BCS era began.

I'd also argue that adding so many bowls that they don't have enough 6-6 teams to make them renders them way more "meaningless" than any playoff does.

I know that wasn't your real point, but the silly arguments against a playoff have always made me shake my head.
 
#103
#103
VolsSportsFan said:
I've never understood this argument, because most of the bowls have been "meaningless" for a long time. I'd argue the lower ones have been pretty much ignored for a long time, but especially since the BCS era began.

I'd also argue that adding so many bowls that they don't have enough 6-6 teams to make them renders them way more "meaningless" than any playoff does.

I know that wasn't your real point, but the silly arguments against a playoff have always made me shake my head.
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Totally agree.

Is the Sun Bowl truly less meaningful now because there is a playoff? What real meaning did it have to begin with?

Outside of the New Years' Six or the old "BCS bowls," the only people watching the bowl games are fans of the two schools playing and gamblers. The Sun Bowl, Citrus Bowl, Holiday Bowl, etc. have always had limited meaning for a national audience. And a lot of these "meaningless" bowl games have been around for a long time too. Why did they become meaningless now, or why did they have more meaning before a playoff arrived? Did adding the Fiesta Bowl in 1971 as a major bowl game take away meaning from the Sun Bowl, which has been around since the 1930s?
 
#104
#104
VolsSportsFan said:
I've never understood this argument, because most of the bowls have been "meaningless" for a long time. I'd argue the lower ones have been pretty much ignored for a long time, but especially since the BCS era began.

I'd also argue that adding so many bowls that they don't have enough 6-6 teams to make them renders them way more "meaningless" than any playoff does.

I know that wasn't your real point, but the silly arguments against a playoff have always made me shake my head.
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I think maybe I need to explain my point of view a bit better. Josh Dobbs was born in 1995, so he was three when the BCS era began.

The argument against the BCS was about the same as the argument against the playoff, which is why they tied the BCS to the bowl system. It was a compromise.

Some one mentioned the culture of the players today. Yeah, duh. They don't know anything else.

They don't know that up until the mid 70's-80's, college football was more popular than the NFL. They don't know that the first player to sign for a million dollars was 1980 or that the first million dollar signing bonus was 1983.

They sure as hell don't remember that Tennessee had very few games that were televised when I was a kid, bowl games were special to everyone, even lower tier bowls, because it was a chance to see the Vols on TV, it was a chance for players to be seen on TV.

Hell, many of these kids have been playing on TV in high school.

To say that the Sun Bowl has been meaningless since it's inception in 1935 is not fair or accurate.

In a day and age when college football players were stars and NFL players, for the most part were viewed as schmucks and paid so little they worked two jobs, bowl games were glorious. No player would have thought about sitting it out because it might be the last time they get to play at all.

In 1979, ESPN made it's debut to about 30,000 viewers. In 1993 ESPN 2 launched and within 5 years the BCS was born and ESPN's take over of college football was on.

In 1993 the NFLPA ushered in the CBA and player salaries would take off and TV was also a boon for the NFL.

Of course, Rivals (recruiting service) also started in 1998.

All of these things are why the bowl season has lost it's way and today's players are a byproduct of what the adults have built in the last 30 years.

It's happening across the board. NFL players want to be voted for the Pro Bowl but they have no desire to play in the game for the same exact reason Fournette doesn't want to play in the bowl game...it could cost him a lot of money. Pay $600 bucks to see Lebron but he doesn't make the trip because all that matters is being healthy for the playoffs.

Too Many Games because of revenue and because networks need all the content they can get.

The money for the first round players is so ridiculous that to play or not to play could be boiled down to a financial issue alone, it overwhelms honor and pride.

On the other hand, kids like Dobbs...yeah we best appreciate the guy, we won't be seeing many more like him.

College football can not continue this way. If the best players on teams that aren't in the final four stop showing up for bowl games no one will want to watch them.

Which is why you will start hearing about going back to 11 game regular seasons and expansion of the CFP in the coming years.

JMO.
 
#105
#105
vol66 said:
To say that the Sun Bowl has been meaningless since it's inception in 1935 is not fair or accurate.
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I wasn't saying that the Sun Bowl has been meaningless since 1935. I am saying that the advent of the playoff or the BCS did not render the Sun Bowl with any less meaning than it had before. However, we have superstar players sitting out of bowl games now. The facts around the game and its importance haven't really changed. What has changed is the culture, and it has changed for the reasons you laid out.

"Meaningless" (as described by the talking heads, not by me) bowl games and guys lined up for big NFL contracts are nothing new. Superstar players sitting out of them isrelatively new. Saban was wrong yesterday when he seemed to imply in his press conference that these guys are sitting out of the other bowl games because the playoff has diminished their importance. I don't see the connection. If anything, the playoff has made the regular season, not the other bowl games, less meaningful.
 
#106
#106
I have no problem with going back to 11 games. To me it was always hypocritical to say having a playoff was bad because it added extra games then turn around and sanction a 12th game.
 
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#107
#107
05_never_again said:
I wasn't saying that the Sun Bowl has been meaningless since 1935. I am saying that the advent of the playoff or the BCS did not render the Sun Bowl with any less meaning than it had before. However, we have superstar players sitting out of bowl games now. The facts around the game and its importance haven't really changed. What has changed is the culture, and it has changed for the reasons you laid out.

"Meaningless" (as described by the talking heads, not by me) bowl games and guys lined up for big NFL contracts are nothing new. Superstar players sitting out of them isrelatively new. Saban was wrong yesterday when he seemed to imply in his press conference that these guys are sitting out of the other bowl games because the playoff has diminished their importance. I don't see the connection. If anything, the playoff has made the regular season, not the other bowl games, less meaningful.
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I can only speak for myself, but I would be much more likely to watch the Sun Bowl or the Poinsettia Bowl if it was backed up by a better game. In that sense, it has diminished in my eyes regardless of whether some players sit or not.

ESPN has diminished these games simply by the fact that they are playing them on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays etc...by removing some of these Bowls from the actual Holidays and playing them at night when kids have to go to bed. I might let him stay up and watch a half, but you can't do it every night of the week. If I'm a player that's not the greatest deal in the world either.

I was trying to make the case that it is not only the advent of the BCS/CFP that's diminished the bowl system it's everything (mainly television and ESPN) and as you say players sitting out is relatively new, it takes some time for a person to open the door but once it's open it's hard to close and that's the connection for me.

We're getting ready for just the third CFP, it's a relatively new system and obviously coaches, players, agents, NFL GM's etc... proceed with caution, but now we will see if the players sitting out works for them or not and players in the future will be watching to see how it pans out.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
#108
#108
vol66 said:
ESPN has diminished these games simply by the fact that they are playing them on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays etc...by removing some of these Bowls from the actual Holidays and playing them at night when kids have to go to bed. I might let him stay up and watch a half, but you can't do it every night of the week. If I'm a player that's not the greatest deal in the world either.
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Pretty much. ESPN only cares about the ratings as well, and apparently they are good enough to make money. They don't care that most of them are played in mostly empty stadiums.
 
#109
#109
I wonder what the response would be if offensive linemen didn't play the bowl game and left the running backs hanging. I don't have a problem with setting out the season, but letting players pick and choose which games to play in will never work. On the other hand maybe if everyone sets out it will help get rid of these garbage bowl games with garbage names. Make the bowls great again!
 
#110
#110
vols-1 said:
I wonder what the response would be if offensive linemen didn't play the bowl game and left the running backs hanging. I don't have a problem with setting out the season, but letting players pick and choose which games to play in will never work. On the other hand maybe if everyone sets out it will help get rid of these garbage bowl games with garbage names. Make the bowls great again!
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non power 5 teams wont have a bowl game then --- I would rather lower the amount of bowl games and up the season record to qualify to 7/8 wins
 
#111
#111
vols-1 said:
I wonder what the response would be if offensive linemen didn't play the bowl game and left the running backs hanging. I don't have a problem with setting out the season, but letting players pick and choose which games to play in will never work. On the other hand maybe if everyone sets out it will help get rid of these garbage bowl games with garbage names. Make the bowls great again!
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That's a really good point and something I hadn't thought of.

A projected first rounder at LT sits out and hangs a QB, perhaps also projected to be drafted, out to dry. What if the QB then decides to sit out? Could be a domino effect.
 
#112
#112
VolsSportsFan said:
Pretty much. ESPN only cares about the ratings as well, and apparently they are good enough to make money. They don't care that most of them are played in mostly empty stadiums.
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Yes, the TV ratings and the sponsorships. They know that hardly any fans are going to actually attend these games but that people generally are at home around the holidays and if they care anything about college football will likely have the game on, at least in the background.
 
#113
#113
These bowl games outside of the playoffs are exhibitions and if any player wants to sit to get ready for combine/draft/injury then I have no problem with that. It's the same as preseason NFL games
 
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#116
#116
05_never_again said:
That's a really good point and something I hadn't thought of.

A projected first rounder at LT sits out and hangs a QB, perhaps also projected to be drafted, out to dry. What if the QB then decides to sit out? Could be a domino effect.
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Haha I don't think the QB would base his decision on one other player. I can't see a QB saying he'll only play if the LT plays because he has no confidence in the rest of the team
 
#117
#117
Now the NFL is catching on...

The Buccaneers deactivated Martin on Sunday against the New Orleans Saints in what team officials called a coach's decision. Martin had not been on the Buccaneers' injury report. Martin suffered a hamstring injury in Week 2 and missed six games, but Sunday's deactivation isn't injury related. Tampa Bay (8-6) needs a win along with lots of help to remain alive for a wild-card berth.
 
#118
#118
vols-1 said:
Now the NFL is catching on...

The Buccaneers deactivated Martin on Sunday against the New Orleans Saints in what team officials called a coach's decision. Martin had not been on the Buccaneers' injury report. Martin suffered a hamstring injury in Week 2 and missed six games, but Sunday's deactivation isn't injury related. Tampa Bay (8-6) needs a win along with lots of help to remain alive for a wild-card berth.
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This is a must-win game for Tampa, so that's pretty different haha
 
#119
#119
vols-1 said:
Now the NFL is catching on...

The Buccaneers deactivated Martin on Sunday against the New Orleans Saints in what team officials called a coach's decision. Martin had not been on the Buccaneers' injury report. Martin suffered a hamstring injury in Week 2 and missed six games, but Sunday's deactivation isn't injury related. Tampa Bay (8-6) needs a win along with lots of help to remain alive for a wild-card berth.
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Well TB lost -- thanks to Martin :rolleyes:
 
#121
#121
vols-1 said:
Now the NFL is catching on...

The Buccaneers deactivated Martin on Sunday against the New Orleans Saints in what team officials called a coach's decision. Martin had not been on the Buccaneers' injury report. Martin suffered a hamstring injury in Week 2 and missed six games, but Sunday's deactivation isn't injury related. Tampa Bay (8-6) needs a win along with lots of help to remain alive for a wild-card berth.
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NFL has been sitting key players for a long time in meaningless games.
 
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#125
#125
Yeah, if his editors forced him to attack the word "exhibition" rather than "meaningless," he'd have nothing to write.
 
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