Les Miles wants to do away with permanant SEC opponents...

[volsfansince4387]

As I said in the other thread bamawriter is referring to, be careful what you wish for.

Florida is 93-13 against the sec east since 1992.

So you stomped Kentucky and Vandy for 20 years like everyone else?

 

[Boca Vol]

So you stomped Kentucky and Vandy for 20 years like everyone else?

And UGA, UT, & USC to boot.

UT's record is 71-35 against the East.

 

[99gator]

So you stomped Kentucky and Vandy for 20 years like everyone else?

is this serious? am i allowed to respond to this properly?

can i get a green light from a mod to state the obvious?

i think sometimes some of y'all make posts like this so i get baited into making a response that will force me to banned.

there's no other explanation for something this dumb.

 

[bamawriter]

is this serious? am i allowed to respond to this properly?

can i get a green light from a mod to state the obvious?

i think sometimes some of y'all make posts like this so i get baited into making a response that will force me to banned.

there's no other explanation for something this dumb.

Resist the urge. You are sporting the wrong colors.

 

[daj2576]

is this serious? am i allowed to respond to this properly?

can i get a green light from a mod to state the obvious?

i think sometimes some of y'all make posts like this so i get baited into making a response that will force me to banned.

there's no other explanation for something this dumb.

There is no doubt that since the conference split into divisions that UF has been the gold standard of the east.

If my quick math is correct, in 21 years you have beaten Georgia and Tennessee 16 times, South Carolina 18 times, and have never lost to Vanderbilt or Kentucky.

I prefer to look at it this way: UT has been responsible for almost 40% of your losses in the east since then.

So he is also right, of your 93 wins 42 (or roughly 45% came) against UK and Vanderbilt.

The truly scary thing is, with all of that talent, how you guys have not utilized that to more championships. Personally, I find that inexcusable.

Don't read this as adversarial. I am agreeing with you. I will not argue Florida's dominance, only that Florida should have been more dominant, far more dominant, than they have been.

 

[99gator]

There is no doubt that since the conference split into divisions that UF has been the gold standard of the east.

If my quick math is correct, in 21 years you have beaten Georgia and Tennessee 16 times, South Carolina 18 times, and have never lost to Vanderbilt or Kentucky.

I prefer to look at it this way: UT has been responsible for almost 40% of your losses in the east since then.

So he is also right, of your 93 wins 42 (or roughly 45% came) against UK and Vanderbilt.

The truly scary thing is, with all of that talent, how you guys have not utilized that to more championships. Personally, I find that inexcusable.

Don't read this as adversarial. I am agreeing with you. I will not argue Florida's dominance, only that Florida should have been more dominant, far more dominant, than they have been.

if that's the case, you're holding florida to an awfully high standard.

it's the winningest program in the country since 1992 in what most would consider the toughest conference in america while also playing fsu who has been highly ranked for at least 10 of those seasons.

3 national titles
10 bcs level bowls
7 sec titles

there are a handful of games in that time span i'd like to have back, but you can't win them all.

i have a hard time finding their performance in the last 21 years to be "inexcusable"

with regard to the vandy-ky thing....

16-5 against tennessee
16-5 against georgia
18-3 against south carolina

is absolutely ridiculous.

if we want to play that game i could point out that 40% of tennessee's wins all time in the sec are against vandy and kentucky

 

[daj2576]

if that's the case, you're holding florida to an awfully high standard.

it's the winningest program in the country since 1992 in what most would consider the toughest conference in america while also playing fsu who has been highly ranked for at least 10 of those seasons.

3 national titles
10 bcs level bowls
7 sec titles

there are a handful of games in that time span i'd like to have back, but you can't win them all.

i have a hard time finding their performance in the last 21 years to be "inexcusable"

with regard to the vandy-ky thing....

16-5 against tennessee
16-5 against georgia
18-3 against south carolina

is absolutely ridiculous.

if we want to play that game i could point out that 40% of tennessee's wins all time in the sec are against vandy and kentucky

You are making an argument against me without even attempting to rebut my main point. That point is that with the perpetual level of talent that is available to Florida, that you should have higher standards. There is no excuse in that time span to lose against MSU or Ole Miss, who will never get near your talent levels.

You guys show up for the east. When you fail, you do so dramatically against typically inferior opponents. Get as upset as you want, but Bama is doing what you guys had 20 years to do, and couldn't. That is consistently utilize talent to dominate opponents and win championships.

Key word is consistent. If you want to see a prime example of Florida under utilizing an extraordinaryamount of talent, think back no further than your bowl game. As I said, when you fail, you do it dramatically.

Yes, since 1992...anyone can cherry pick a timeline that suits their needs. If you are concerned by my evaluation, you should be. It isnt wrong.

 

[99gator]

You are making an argument against me without even attempting to rebut my main point. That point is that with the perpetual level of talent that is available to Florida, that you should have higher standards. There is no excuse in that time span to lose against MSU or Ole Miss, who will never get near your talent levels.

You guys show up for the east. When you fail, you do so dramatically against typically inferior opponents. Get as upset as you want, but Bama is doing what you guys had 20 years to do, and couldn't. That is consistently utilize talent to dominate opponents and win championships.

Key word is consistent. If you want to see a prime example of Florida under utilizing an extraordinaryamount of talent, think back no further than your bowl game. As I said, when you fail, you do it dramatically.

Yes, since 1992...anyone can cherry pick a timeline that suits their needs. If you are concerned by my evaluation, you should be. It isnt wrong.

i said since 1992 because that was the timeframe we were talking about.

that's the first thing.

the second thing again is that what you are suggesting is something only a few teams in history of college football have ever done. i don't think you can refer to florida as underachieving because they didn't have a stretch of winning 3 national titles in 4 years. how many times has that been done.

i mean, damn, they are averaging a bcs bowl once every two years.

if having the most wins in college football during that time frame and watching them win 3 national titles is underachieving, then i might as well give up ever being happy.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

lol: @ "perpetual level of talent"

As if Florida doesn't have to compete with FSU, Miami, USF, UCF and every other D-1 school poaching the Sunshine State for talent.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

i said since 1992 because that was the timeframe we were talking about.

that's the first thing.

the second thing again is that what you are suggesting is something only a few teams in history of college football have ever done. i don't think you can refer to florida as underachieving because they didn't have a stretch of winning 3 national titles in 4 years. how many times has that been done.

i mean, damn, they are averaging a bcs bowl once every two years.

if having the most wins in college football during that time frame and watching them win 3 national titles is underachieving, then i might as well give up ever being happy.

It's a coping mechanism amigo.

We should be ashamed about all the success UF didn't have the last 20 years.

 

[daj2576]

i said since 1992 because that was the timeframe we were talking about.

that's the first thing.

the second thing again is that what you are suggesting is something only a few teams in history of college football have ever done. i don't think you can refer to florida as underachieving because they didn't have a stretch of winning 3 national titles in 4 years. how many times has that been done.

i mean, damn, they are averaging a bcs bowl once every two years.

if having the most wins in college football during that time frame and watching them win 3 national titles is underachieving, then i might as well give up ever being happy.

Equivocate however you chose. I have never once downed UF. In fact, I have given you compliments like "gold standard of the east" and other things.

Looking at it objectively, however, you guys are the incredibly smart son of the SEC who just never quite performs to their potential. Sure, you do better than most, but why settle for that when you could do so much more?

Settling is settling, no matter how you word it. Do you think Alabama is saying "yeah we are done now"? Or "We have done more than most teams ever do, why do more?"

Yes, you have three championships in 21 years. Good for you. Bama has three in four years and doesn't sit on anywhere near the recruiting talent. In fact, they consistently out recruit you. Explain that, when you have facilities as good, better recruiting territory, and a far better campus atmosphere (by all accounts?).

As to your compadre, if UF is having to compete for talent with UCF, you have really sold yourself short.

I would be happy if I was a Florida fan, but I would also say that there is much success left on the table. If that satisfies you, so be it.

 

[daj2576]

lol: @ "perpetual level of talent"

As if Florida doesn't have to compete with FSU, Miami, USF, UCF and every other D-1 school poaching the Sunshine State for talent.

When that phrase was used, I was directly referring to unexplained losses against MSU, Ole Miss, Louisville, and others. Did they out-recruit you during those years? Nope. So yes, you have more latent talent.

I am not downing Florida. How can it be a coping mechanism when I have accepted the reality that if you start counting at 1992, Florida is far superior than every other team in the SEC east, including my beloved Alma Mater?

Do you really think that you are competing with USF, and UCF for the same quality of talent? That is a total straw man argument. I highly doubt that you are even directly competing for the same pool of talent that Miami is drawing from. Sure there are probably a handful of exceptions, but that isn't the rule.

 

[Vol4life25]

When that phrase was used, I was directly referring to unexplained losses against MSU, Ole Miss, Louisville, and others. Did they out-recruit you during those years? Nope. So yes, you have more latent talent.

I am not downing Florida. How can it be a coping mechanism when I have accepted the reality that if you start counting at 1992, Florida is far superior than every other team in the SEC east, including my beloved Alma Mater?

Do you really think that you are competing with USF, and UCF for the same quality of talent? That is a total straw man argument. I highly doubt that you are even directly competing for the same pool of talent that Miami is drawing from. Sure there are probably a handful of exceptions, but that isn't the rule.

Straight silence from all gator fans..........














Priceless

 

[99gator]

Equivocate however you chose. I have never once downed UF. In fact, I have given you compliments like "gold standard of the east" and other things.

Looking at it objectively, however, you guys are the incredibly smart son of the SEC who just never quite performs to their potential. Sure, you do better than most, but why settle for that when you could do so much more?

Settling is settling, no matter how you word it. Do you think Alabama is saying "yeah we are done now"? Or "We have done more than most teams ever do, why do more?"

Yes, you have three championships in 21 years. Good for you. Bama has three in four years and doesn't sit on anywhere near the recruiting talent. In fact, they consistently out recruit you. Explain that, when you have facilities as good, better recruiting territory, and a far better campus atmosphere (by all accounts?).

As to your compadre, if UF is having to compete for talent with UCF, you have really sold yourself short.

I would be happy if I was a Florida fan, but I would also say that there is much success left on the table. If that satisfies you, so be it.

I have never looked at it in this manner and don't know any gator fan who has.

I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that.

However, I am curious as to what you believe the level of success Florida would have to achieve for Florida to not be underachieving.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

When that phrase was used, I was directly referring to unexplained losses against MSU, Ole Miss, Louisville, and others. Did they out-recruit you during those years? Nope. So yes, you have more latent talent.

I am not downing Florida. How can it be a coping mechanism when I have accepted the reality that if you start counting at 1992, Florida is far superior than every other team in the SEC east, including my beloved Alma Mater?

Do you really think that you are competing with USF, and UCF for the same quality of talent? That is a total straw man argument. I highly doubt that you are even directly competing for the same pool of talent that Miami is drawing from. Sure there are probably a handful of exceptions, but that isn't the rule.

As far as recruiting goes, go back and read my comments. Everyone recruits the state of Florida...everyone. If UF isn't competing against Miami for a 5-star recruit from Dade Country, chances are we're competing against Ohio State, LSU, Oklahoma or Alabama for that kid.

Upsets happen in college football. Florida wasn't motivated to play Louisville, just like Alabama wasn't motivated to play Utah a few years back. Hell, Wyoming came to Neyland and beat you guys.

You are either downing Florida, or holding Florida to a standard similar to Miami's 1980s dynasty, or Alabama's current run, or on a smaller scale Spurrier's run from 1993-1996. UF recently came one game short of playing for its third national title in four years, during the SEC's most dominant run in its history.

But I guess 99 and I should expect and demand more. It would be "inexcusable" to accept anything less.

 

[Boca Vol]

UF doesn't get it!

 

[Lawrence Wright]

UF doesn't get it!

I see what you did there.

 

[daj2576]

As far as recruiting goes, go back and read my comments. Everyone recruits the state of Florida...everyone. If UF isn't competing against Miami for a 5-star recruit from Dade Country, chances are we're competing against Ohio State, LSU, Oklahoma or Alabama for that kid.

Upsets happen in college football. Florida wasn't motivated to play Louisville, just like Alabama wasn't motivated to play Utah a few years back. Hell, Wyoming came to Neyland and beat you guys.

You are either downing Florida, or holding Florida to a standard similar to Miami's 1980s dynasty, or Alabama's current run, or on a smaller scale Spurrier's run from 1993-1996. UF recently came one game short of playing for its third national title in four years, during the SEC's most dominant run in its history.

But I guess 99 and I should expect and demand more. It would be "inexcusable" to accept anything less.

Sure you should demand more.

I think there are things you are missing.

The first is that other SEC schools aren't really recruiting against you in Florida. Yes, other schools come to Florida for the talent but statistics have shown that about 80% of recruits go to a school within a half days drive of their home. That leaves 20% who could be swayed to go elsewhere. Why is great talent either leaving the state of Florida or going to other, less dominant, Florida schools? Or is the reality that great talent is going to Florida, possibly the best talent on average in the SEC, and it isn't being correctly utilized outside of a couple of years under Urban and a couple of years under Spurrier to the national championship level?

There are some other figures that suggest that the talent that comes out of Florida to go to other schools was completely ignored by in-state schools and generally is less spectacular performance wise. This either means that 1) the talent in Florida is universally overrated (not likely) or that 2) the in state schools (UF specifically) are already getting the pick of the litter, so the argument about other schools fighting for the best state talent is moot.

Look at the recruiting rankings and you will see that generally, UF severely out recruits the other Florida schools as well as most of the SEC (except for Bama of late).

Are you saying that Florida isn't competitive in a recruiting sense against LSU, Bama, UT, USF, UCF, Miami and Florida State? Why is that when you guys are, in fact, the winningest program in college football since 1992 to the present?

Those are the questions you should be asking, and so should your administration. Both Florida and Georgia sit on a talent pool that means that gathering talent itself is a non-entity. Inexplicably both schools have traditionally not capitalized off of those great resources. Yes, you have been incredibly successful, but you SHOULD be in the same category as the Miami of the 80's and the Bama's of today. But, you aren't. Why?

What do those schools have that you don't? (Besides coaching and a competent administration that really understands what it takes to win as opposed to stumbling onto a championship once every 3/4 of a decade.)

In fact, in my view, you have done less with more.

As an SEC fan, being objective, that concerns me that there are teams under performing on such a level. As a UT grad, it pains me to admit that you guys have and will continue to fall short of your potential (how scary would it be if you actually were as good as you could be?). Honestly, I hope you never find it, you would be unstoppable.

Keep on keeping on. As long as the fans, like you, don't demand change and are happy with the national championships that you have and not the several others that you should have, the administration will never see it. Enjoy your three national championships...

I will enjoy our 6 and know that until there are major changes, neither of us will surpass the truly elite in the SEC.

 

[daj2576]

I have never looked at it in this manner and don't know any gator fan who has.

I'll just say I disagree and leave it at that.

However, I am curious as to what you believe the level of success Florida would have to achieve for Florida to not be underachieving.

Based solely on your recruited talent, the only school in the SEC that you should consistently lose to would be Bama. You don't play them every year. Whoever you play out of conference, should be a comparative cake walk.

If you played Bama three times in a row, you should win at least once. So, if you go undefeated in the SEC, play Bama every year in the SEC championship game that means that once every three years you should be playing for a national championship. You are averaging once out of every 7 years (14%) and you should be averaging that once out of every 3 years (33%). That means you are competing for championships at less than a 50% rate than you should be.

At least in my humble view.

My wife is a Gator, and she is far less receptive to hearing this sort of analysis so I thank you for your time.

 

[photovol]

We could do with "Less" Miles.....don't you think?

 

[sjt18]

Les Miles: Do away with permanent foes - SEC Blog - ESPN

This article has to be a first, Steve Spurrier actually makes a decent comment about Tennessee without whining...

I know the Bama game means alot to older fans... but in this modern era of CFB... I agree completely. The only way I think it is equitable to UT, UF, LSU, and Bama to continue playing every year is if the league goes to 16 schools and puts those schools in the same division.

UGA and USCe have a much easier path. Frankly, right now, LSU could complain that Bama has an easier path.

 

[99gator]

Based solely on your recruited talent, the only school in the SEC that you should consistently lose to would be Bama. You don't play them every year. Whoever you play out of conference, should be a comparative cake walk.

If you played Bama three times in a row, you should win at least once. So, if you go undefeated in the SEC, play Bama every year in the SEC championship game that means that once every three years you should be playing for a national championship. You are averaging once out of every 7 years (14%) and you should be averaging that once out of every 3 years (33%). That means you are competing for championships at less than a 50% rate than you should be.

At least in my humble view.

My wife is a Gator, and she is far less receptive to hearing this sort of analysis so I thank you for your time.

i went to stassen to pull some numbers. again, i'm going back to 1992 because that's when divisional play started. it's also the time frame we have been discussing the whole time.

in sec games only, florida has a 77.5% winning percentage. that's during a timeframe where the sec produced 10 national champions in the 21 years.

the next highest winning percentage is 65.3% (alabama).

florida has a higher winning percentage in road conference games (73.7%) than any other sec team has in home conference games (67.9% tennessee).

florida's average conference record is 6.5-2

florida's average overall record is 10-3. remember that florida's regular non conference opponent is 5th nationally in wins during that time with 2 national titles of their own.

is it the bear bryant era? no

are there some games i wish florida could have back? yes.

however, i ain't complaining.

also.....florida played for the national title in 1995. i will also always consider the 2009 sec title game to be the real national title game that season, but technically, i realize that doesn't count

 

[Lawrence Wright]

Sure you should demand more.

I think there are things you are missing.

The first is that other SEC schools aren't really recruiting against you in Florida. (Yes, they are.) Yes, other schools come to Florida for the talent (See, even you agree.) but statistics have shown that about 80% of recruits go to a school within a half days drive of their home (and 95% of those recruits aren't elite, and we're talking about winning national titles, remember?). That leaves 20% who could be swayed to go elsewhere. Why is great talent either leaving the state of Florida or going to other, less dominant, Florida schools? (Because there are only 85 scholarships to go around.) Or is the reality that great talent is going to Florida, possibly the best talent on average in the SEC, and it isn't being correctly utilized outside of a couple of years under Urban and a couple of years under Spurrier to the national championship level? (Nope, that's not it. UF, FSU and Miami were all elite programs during the Spurrier era. Where do you think their recruits came from?)

There are some other figures that suggest that the talent that comes out of Florida to go to other schools was completely ignored by in-state schools and generally is less spectacular performance wise. This either means that 1) the talent in Florida is universally overrated (not likely) or that 2) the in state schools (UF specifically) are already getting the pick of the litter, so the argument about other schools fighting for the best state talent is moot. (It could also mean elite recruits from the state of Florida have their choice of elite schools both within and outside of Florida.)

Look at the recruiting rankings and you will see that generally, UF severely out recruits the other Florida schools as well as most of the SEC (except for Bama of late).

Are you saying that Florida isn't competitive in a recruiting sense against LSU, Bama, UT, USF, UCF, Miami and Florida State? Why is that when you guys are, in fact, the winningest program in college football since 1992 to the present? (How many schools have won three national titles since 1992?)

Those are the questions you should be asking, and so should your administration. (Perhaps we should fire Muschamp for a 5-win improvement from 2011 to 2012, and in hindsight we should have fired Zook DURING the Mississippi State game instead of two days later.) Both Florida and Georgia sit on a talent pool that means that gathering talent itself is a non-entity. (You're lumping Florida in with Georgia as underachievers...really?)Inexplicably both schools have traditionally not capitalized off of those great resources. (One school MUCH more than the other.) Yes, you have been incredibly successful, but you SHOULD be in the same category as the Miami of the 80's and the Bama's of today. But, you aren't. Why? (I'll hang my head in shame and admit to settling for being "incredibly successful". If a UF football dynasty is what it takes to meet, not exceed, your expectations, we will never see eye to eye.)

What do those schools have that you don't? (Besides coaching and a competent administration that really understands what it takes to win as opposed to stumbling onto a championship once every 3/4 of a decade.) (If UF's administration is incompetent, then everyone's administration is incompetent. Jeremy Foley is the best AD in the country, and he has no problem firing a coach who isn't performing...unlike some schools.)

In fact, in my view, you have done less with more. (I disagree with your view.)

As an SEC fan, being objective, that concerns me that there are teams under performing on such a level. As a UT grad, it pains me to admit that you guys have and will continue to fall short of your potential (how scary would it be if you actually were as good as you could be?). Honestly, I hope you never find it, you would be unstoppable. (You are being anything but objective, unless you're talking about UGA going over 30 years without winning a national title. Again, how many schools have won three since 1980, let alone 1992?)

Keep on keeping on. As long as the fans, like you, don't demand change and are happy with the national championships that you have and not the several others that you should have, the administration will never see it. Enjoy your three national championships... (Demand change...that's rich. We should blow up the SEC's best athletic department and start over until UF starts winning national titles in football every other year.)

I will enjoy our 6 and know that until there are major changes, neither of us will surpass the truly elite in the SEC. (I'm guessing you were alive for no more than two of those national titles. But by all means, please continue to enjoy them all.)

My responses are in blue...this is fun.

I'd be more inclined to agree with your opinion if it focused on everything UF didn't accomplish pre-Spurrier.

 

[VolsRule]

it's not fair that tennessee has to play alabama every year---alabama is the best team in the country

 

[bamawriter]

it's not fair that tennessee has to play alabama every year---alabama is the best team in the country

Bet you didn't care when you were handing our head to us for a decade.