Let's compare Jesus and Muhammed (and debate homosexuality) (and Tombstone).

#752
#752
therealUT said:
I have to disagree; I think that is exactly what those words mean.
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There is no way I can prove otherwise, and even if possible, it wouldn't be guaranteed to be agreed with.

That was simply my interpretation and explanation.

Taking those words at face value, you still have a good story of discipline and adherence to both religion, culture and, at the time, law. Which, arguably, is the purpose of the story to begin with.
 
#753
#753
Gramps said:
Yes light can be measured. I was asking about darkness.


Do you accept the existence of darkness?


Your argument was that you accept air in motion because it can be measured, tested and explained.

Then you go on to say that " If you are attempting to equate this to god, I will only ask how we can measure and test either god, or the substances that compose said righteous diety"


My question to you is how can we measure and test darkness, or the substances that composes darkness?
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I said that. theReal offered an answer to the question you posed to me, and did so perfectly.

Darkness is the inverse of light. Therefore, if you can measure light, you can measure darkness.
 
#754
#754
Gramps said:
Yes light can be measured. I was speaking of light, I was asking about darkness.


Do you accept the existence of darkness?
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No. Darkness does not exist. Darkness is a negative. Darkness is the absence of light. Light can be measured; therefore, the absence of light (darkness) can also be measured.

If you can measure God (which people posit as a positive), then feel free to bring into the discussion a measure for the absence of God. Until then, your line of thought is unreasonable.

Gramps said:
Your argument was that you accept air in motion because it can be measured, tested and explained.

Then you go on to say that " If you are attempting to equate this to god, I will only ask how we can measure and test either god, or the substances that compose said righteous diety"
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I made no such statement; however, if you would like me to address this, I will.

The particles in the air can be measured; therefore, their movement and their changes (what we refer to as wind) can also be measured.

Gramps said:
My question to you is how can we measure and test darkness, or the substances that composes darkness?
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Light is made up of waves and particles; these waves and particles can be measured. Ergo, we can measure the absence of such as well.
 
#755
#755
therealUT said:
Light is made up of waves and particles; these waves and particles can be measured. Ergo, we can measure the absence of such as well.
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To expand upon this further, if you take a room absent of light, and scale darkness from 0 to 1, with 1 being zero light, then the darkness in the room is 1, or 100%.

If you take a room where small amounts of light enter, and measure the amount of light in the room, darkness is equal to 1-proportion of light.

Ergo, darkness has been measured, and theReal's first answer was perfect without need for explanation.
 
#756
#756
therealUT said:
Yet, he specifically states:



I would interpret that to mean that one who acts justly, according to their conscience, will be judged favorably by God; whether or not they have ever heard the law. I would imagine that sentiment would expand to those who obey "Christian morals" without ever having heard of Christ, therefore they would presumably have no faith in Christ.
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Would your interpretation change with Paul's other comments on Christ? Or does that not factor.

The situation had changed for the Jews during that time. There was a disconnect between what Christ taught and what Paul was extending in regards to the law in there eyes. Its pretty evident that many of the Jews did not buy into what Christ or Paul preached.
 
#760
#760
My statement:

Gramps said:
Your argument was that you accept air in motion because it can be measured, tested and explained./QUOTE]


Your answer:

fl0at said:
Air in motion? I accept its existence. I accept that air can be measured, tested and explained.

I accept that the same can be said for air in motion, a la wind.Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Then you contradict yoursef:

therealUT said:
I made no such statement; however, if you would like me to address this, I will.

The particles in the air can be measured; therefore, their movement and their changes (what we refer to as wind) can also be measured.
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[
Click to expand...
 
#761
#761
Orangekush423 said:
If you wish to measure the absence of God. Put America on the scales.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I propose that if god is indeed everywhere, whether we choose to accept him or not, he would still be present in that measure. And thus, it would be impossible to measure the absence of something purported to be 1 at all times.

However, the comment is not lost on me, sardonic as it may be.
 
#762
#762
BeecherVol said:
Would your interpretation change with Paul's other comments on Christ? Or does that not factor.
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He certainly changes his stances depending upon his audience. The problems with Paul's letters though (really the problem with the entire Bible), are the conflicting statements and the vague platitudes in which ideas are expressed.

Gramps said:
The situation had changed for the Jews during that time. There was a disconnect between what Christ taught and what Paul was extending in regards to the law in there eyes. Its pretty evident that many of the Jews did not buy into what Christ or Paul preached.
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Makes one wonder why those who would have been the eye-witnesses to the miracles and resurrection of Jesus did not buy into it...
 
#765
#765
Gramps said:
:ermm: :shakehead:

So we don't have darkness every night ?
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We have smaller gradation of light particles every night. There are no dark particles; darkness is simply the absence of light, it is a negative. Negatives are imaginary. Ergo, darkness does not actually exist.
 
#766
#766
fl0at said:
You might want to read that again. Maybe start with the names of the individuals you are quoting. I'd compare the first bold to the second bold.

That's just me, though.
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You are correct, sir. My bad
 
#767
#767
therealUT said:
We have smaller gradation of light particles every night. There are no dark particles; darkness is simply the absence of light, it is a negative. Negatives are imaginary. Ergo, darkness does not actually exist.
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You are correct.
Per Science darkness does not exist, however we see it every night. We all know there is darkness and it does exist.

My point being Science cannot measure everything that exist . You cannot argue God does not exist because he cannot be measured.
 
#768
#768
therealUT said:
He certainly changes his stances depending upon his audience. The problems with Paul's letters though (really the problem with the entire Bible), are the conflicting statements and the vague platitudes in which ideas are expressed.
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I don't really see it that way. The subject matter or issues of that time would differ from a Gentile to a Jew, which would change the approach but not the stance.
 
#769
#769
Gramps said:
My point being Science cannot measure everything that exist . You cannot argue God does not exist because he cannot be measured.
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Give an example of something that exists that cannot be measured. Keep in mind, whether or not darkness exists, we can measure that which does exist (light), and extrapolate that which does not exist.
 
#770
#770
Gramps said:
You are correct.
Per Science darkness does not exist, however we see it every night. We all know there is darkness and it does exist.

My point being Science cannot measure everything that exist . You cannot argue God does not exist because he cannot be measured.
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You do not see darkness; your eyes do not even measure darkness. They measure light.

Put three apples on a table. Take two away. What is left on the table? The answer to this question is not one apple and two non-apples.

Honestly, you are making incredibly foolish statements; I do not want to generalize or jump to a conclusion here, but I have to think this is the result of the ultra-right-wing, Christian push to demonize science, even science that in no way encroaches upon Christian beliefs.
 
#771
#771
therealUT said:
Makes one wonder why those who would have been the eye-witnesses to the miracles and resurrection of Jesus did not buy into it...
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They did not see him as the messiah, due to the fact that he did not come to do what they thought he was supposed to do. Not to mention the weight he put upon himself that in a way flew in the face of the law. In some ways attitudes are similar today. If God doesn't fit your idea or purpose its gonna be hard to cope with.
 
#772
#772
There may be an intelligence factor in play here. And I mean that in the negative sense. Like light and darkness.
 
#773
#773
BeecherVol said:
They did not see him as the messiah, due to the fact that he did not come to do what they thought he was supposed to do. Not to mention the weight he put upon himself that in a way flew in the face of the law. In some ways attitudes are similar today. If God doesn't fit your idea or purpose its gonna be hard to cope with.
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Or, maybe they knew that he did not rise from the dead, thus negating his own claims?

It is interesting that the people who perpetuated and/or bought into the resurrection claims were the lower classes, who presumably would have held grudges against the ruling elite, or persons who were in no way connected with Jerusalem.

Had the Pharisees and Sadducees believed that Christ was the messiah, they could have easily embraced the story and kept their power. In other words, they had little to nothing to lose by believing he was the messiah; the lower classes, though, had a lot to gain by establishing their own sect, as proven by the rise to preeminence of Christianity in the following centuries.
 
#774
#774
Measure darkness? LMAO! VN is a real treat sometimes.

While we're at it, let's measure cold. What's the official degree when we can say "at this degree cold starts."

And don't give it away to the dark measurers guys.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#775
#775
therealUT said:
You do not see darkness; your eyes do not even measure darkness. They measure light.

Put three apples on a table. Take two away. What is left on the table? The answer to this question is not one apple and two non-apples.

Honestly, you are making incredibly foolish statements; I do not want to generalize or jump to a conclusion here, but I have to think this is the result of the ultra-right-wing, Christian push to demonize science, even science that in no way encroaches upon Christian beliefs.
Click to expand...


This is not a right wing nothing.
Some atheist proclaim God does not exist, because he cannot be seen, or we can not measure and test either god, or the substances that compose said righteous diety.

My argument is that one cannot argue God does not exist because he canot be measured. There are several things on earth that cannot be measured.


I gave you an exampe of darkness. You can describe it any way you want to, you can say it does not exist, but we have darkness every night.
Darkness is the absence of light, without light there is darkness. We all know we have darkness but there is nothing that can measure ot test darkness nor has science discovered any substances that make up darkness. It is still there we have darkness.

I believe strongly in Science, however, Science cannot explain all things.
 
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