Let's compare Jesus and Muhammed (and debate homosexuality) (and Tombstone).

#776
#776
Gramps said:
My argument is that one cannot argue God does not exist because he canot be measured. There are several things on earth that cannot be measured.
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Again, like what?

Gramps said:
We all know we have darkness but there is nothing that can measure ot test darkness nor has science discovered any substances that make up darkness.
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Again, darkness is 1-proportion of light measured.

Darkness is easily measured. How can you continue to state that darkness cannot be measured, when the equation to do so is right above.
 
#777
#777
Light vs. Dark!!!
65489-bigthumbnail.jpg
 
#778
#778
fl0at said:
Again, darkness is 1-proportion of light measured.

Darkness is easily measured. How can you continue to state that darkness cannot be measured, when the equation to do so is right above.
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You are measuring light, not darkness.

Darkness is the absence of light... it is nothing.
How can nothing be measured?
 
#781
#781
Gramps said:
You are measuring light, not darkness.

Darkness is the absence of light... it is nothing.
How can nothing be measured?
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Indirect measurement is still measurement. You measure light to determine darkness.

If you enter a room with no windows, no lights, no cracks and no light entering, then light is zero.

Darkness = 1-light
Darkness = 1-0
Darkness = 1 or 100%

If you enter a room with absolute light intensity
Darkness = 1-light
Darkness = 1-1
Darkness = 0

Darkness = absence of light; ergo presence of light is proportional to darkness.
 
#782
#782
Let me ask you a question, Gramps. If you are putting up drywall in a new room you are building, and have a gap remaining that needs to be cut, can you measure the gap itself? Yes.

Can you also measure the entire length of the wall and subtract from that the length of the wall that has drywall up? Yes.

In the latter case, you have measured the length of the gap indirectly, and still arrived at the right size to cut. You have effectively measured the nothing that is the gap.
 
#783
#783
therealUT said:
Or, maybe they knew that he did not rise from the dead, thus negating his own claims?

It is interesting that the people who perpetuated and/or bought into the resurrection claims were the lower classes, who presumably would have held grudges against the ruling elite, or persons who were in no way connected with Jerusalem.

Had the Pharisees and Sadducees believed that Christ was the messiah, they could have easily embraced the story and kept their power. In other words, they had little to nothing to lose by believing he was the messiah; the lower classes, though, had a lot to gain by establishing their own sect, as proven by the rise to preeminence of Christianity in the following centuries.
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They could have also been extremely arrogant and full of themselves to think that God would never send the son of a carpenter to set up a kingdom on earth as well.

Don't really buy the class warfare aspect from the lower side especially. It was pretty evident that their life on earth was not gonna take off into prosperity by following Christ.
 
#785
#785
fl0at said:
Indirect measurement is still measurement. You measure light to determine darkness.

If you enter a room with no windows, no lights, no cracks and no light entering, then light is zero.

Darkness = 1-light
Darkness = 1-0
Darkness = 1 or 100%

If you enter a room with absolute light intensity
Darkness = 1-light
Darkness = 1-1
Darkness = 0

Darkness = absence of light; ergo presence of light is proportional to darkness.
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Maybe it's a semantics thing but there are lots of people that find measuring something as a negative to something else (we know what is and can therefore accurately calculate what isn't) to be, I don't know, "unsatisfying", in regards to having taken an actual measurement of the whateveritis.
 
#786
#786
therealUT said:
Or, maybe they knew that he did not rise from the dead, thus negating his own claims?

It is interesting that the people who perpetuated and/or bought into the resurrection claims were the lower classes, who presumably would have held grudges against the ruling elite, or persons who were in no way connected with Jerusalem.

Had the Pharisees and Sadducees believed that Christ was the messiah, they could have easily embraced the story and kept their power. In other words, they had little to nothing to lose by believing he was the messiah; the lower classes, though, had a lot to gain by establishing their own sect, as proven by the rise to preeminence of Christianity in the following centuries.
Click to expand...

I disagree with your interpretation of biblical history. Based on your comments above, the vast majority of people would fall into the "lower classes" so it is not surprising that they are the ones who largely converted... 1000's of people within weeks. Also, the religious leaders at the time had much to lose... which is why they wanted Jesus crucified.

On a separate topic, how are black holes measured? We know they exist and yet we can not see them as all light falling on it is absorbed.
 
#787
#787
hndog609 said:
Maybe it's a semantics thing but there are lots of people that find measuring something as a negative to something else (we know what is and can therefore accurately calculate what isn't) to be, I don't know, "unsatisfying", in regards to having taken an actual measurement of the whateveritis.
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I am putting down a piece of molding. I have a 14' room and just put down a 12' piece of trim.

You aren't here, and thus you can't directly tape the space yourself.

Can you accurately and with satisfaction give me the length of trim that I need to cut, even though you can't directly measure the space itself?
 
#788
#788
fl0at said:
Indirect measurement is still measurement. You measure light to determine darkness.

If you enter a room with no windows, no lights, no cracks and no light entering, then light is zero.

Darkness = 1-light
Darkness = 1-0
Darkness = 1 or 100%

If you enter a room with absolute light intensity
Darkness = 1-light
Darkness = 1-1
Darkness = 0

Darkness = absence of light; ergo presence of light is proportional to darkness.
Click to expand...


Again you are measuring light, not darkness.

We have darkness every night, but Science says it does not exist. It is nothing, it's simply the absence of light.

Light can be studied and measured, darkness cannot be measured.
 
#789
#789
fl0at said:
I am putting down a piece of molding. I have a 14' room and just put down a 12' piece of trim.

You aren't here, and thus you can't directly tape the space yourself.

Can you accurately and with satisfaction give me the length of trim that I need to cut, even though you can't directly measure the space itself?
Click to expand...

HGTV has a forum for such occasions. So I've heard.
 
#791
#791
Gramps said:
Again you are measuring light, not darkness.

We have darkness every night, but Science says it does not exist. It is nothing, it's simply the absence of light.

Light can be studied and measured, darkness cannot be measured.
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you're simply solving for X instead of Y. Not that hard to understand
 
#797
#797
fl0at said:
I am putting down a piece of molding. I have a 14' room and just put down a 12' piece of trim.

You aren't here, and thus you can't directly tape the space yourself.

Can you accurately and with satisfaction give me the length of trim that I need to cut, even though you can't directly measure the space itself?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I must have been ambiguous in my first reply. I didn't mean to contradict what you said (and the home improvement example is an easy one to grasp) but to point out that some aren't satisfied with negative measurements. I think this is primarily reserved for things that aren't so readily defined as your example. For instance, you CAN measure just the space itself in your example. (if you're there to do so)

I guess there's some psychology involved...you can get people pretty bent out of shape discussing the "color" black.
 
#800
#800
fl0at said:
Darkness is proportional to light. If you know one, you know the other. This is how measurement works.

That you still do not get this is astounding.
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It is astounding that you do not get this.

Darkness is nothing. It is the absence of light. Light is a form of energy.

Light can be measured, filtered, increased or decreased.

Darkness cannot be measured. Darkness cannot be increased or decreased without light.
 
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