Let's compare Jesus and Muhammed (and debate homosexuality) (and Tombstone).

#901
#901
g8terh8ter_eric said:
They were so exaggerated, that people were killed merely for believing in him. That doesn't sound exaggerated to me, that sounds like someone trying to prevent information from spreading about what truly happened with him.
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Sounds to me like pagans and Jews of that time period were a bunch of *******s. kinda like they were before he existed
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#902
#902
fl0at said:
The Salem Witch trials are a great example of why people can be killed for simple exaggeration. Unless you believe that maybe they occurred because people just didn't like Harry Potter novels being read in school.

I don't find validity in your defense, given other examples of similarity, all of which can't be true, if yours is as well.
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So, you compare something that last 5 years, to something that lasted from the time Jesus died, to the time Constantine became a Christian and stopped the persecution of Christians in the 4th century Roman Empire?? Do you not see how that comparison, not only pales in comparison to the deaths that Christians endured, but is limited to a really small area, unlike the persecution of the Christians over the entire Mediterranean region?? It's actually kind of silly to make that comparison.
 
#903
#903
I was surprised the direction this thread turned fairly quickly. Some very good analytical approaches to the god issue. I am of the belief that as long as it doesn't affect me or my family, you can believe whatever you want. I find it difficult, myself, to believe we were created by a god that made us imperfect who then set out to punish us for these imperfections.
 
#904
#904
emainvol said:
Sounds to me like pagans and Jews of that time period were a bunch of *******s. kinda like they were before he existed
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Christians are still killed today, just for their belief in Jesus being the Son of Man. Why is it that Christians are pretty much the only persecuted group of believers in their God, versus everyone else?? I'm not talking about politically correct persecution, I'm talking about cutting off your head persecution.
 
#905
#905
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, you compare something that last 5 years, to something that lasted from the time Jesus died, to the time Constantine became a Christian and stopped the persecution of Christians in the 4th century Roman Empire?? Do you not see how that comparison, not only pales in comparison to the deaths that Christians endured, but is limited to a really small area, unlike the persecution of the Christians over the entire Mediterranean region?? It's actually kind of silly to make that comparison.
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Killing in the name of religion is not simply a Roman, Muslim ect. thing. Glass houses, friend.
 
#906
#906
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, you compare something that last 5 years, to something that lasted from the time Jesus died, to the time Constantine became a Christian and stopped the persecution of Christians in the 4th century Roman Empire?? Do you not see how that comparison, not only pales in comparison to the deaths that Christians endured, but is limited to a really small area, unlike the persecution of the Christians over the entire Mediterranean region?? It's actually kind of silly to make that comparison.
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So bunch of Romans, who were never terribly accepting of other religions to begin with, were ruled by brutal non-Christian dictators and killed Christians because of their beliefs because they were afraid of what they believed. gotcha. So why did Christians kill Muslims, Jews and pagans afterward? Also, are you claiming that Romans weren't killing Christians because of their political beliefs?
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#907
#907
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, you compare something that last 5 years, to something that lasted from the time Jesus died, to the time Constantine became a Christian and stopped the persecution of Christians in the 4th century Roman Empire?? Do you not see how that comparison, not only pales in comparison to the deaths that Christians endured, but is limited to a really small area, unlike the persecution of the Christians over the entire Mediterranean region?? It's actually kind of silly to make that comparison.
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No, it is silly to state such a conspiracy theory (that followers were killed because their beliefs were true).

If we are to accept such a conspiracy theory, then we can apply the same to any other number of believers who have been killed for their beliefs, arguably, under the same guise as your own theory, to stop their beliefs.

If we are to accept that basic premise, that believers are killed because their beliefs are true, then you would have only to look at any other number of other competing beliefs: Judaism, Islam, Zoroastrianism, Paganism, Buddhism, etc.

If we maintain the viewpoint of Christianity, that Jesus is the son of the one true god, AND that believers are killed to stop a true message from getting across, we can conclude that if any of the above were killed for their beliefs, then yours is wrong. If yours is right, theirs is wrong.

Or more likely, they are all wrong.
 
#908
#908
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Christians are still killed today, just for their belief in Jesus being the Son of Man. Why is it that Christians are pretty much the only persecuted group of believers in their God, versus everyone else?? I'm not talking about politically correct persecution, I'm talking about cutting off your head persecution.
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Hahahahahahahahahahahaha... Oh my dear god that is dumb
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#909
#909
fl0at said:
No, it is silly to state such a conspiracy theory (that followers were killed because their beliefs were true).

If we are to accept such a conspiracy theory, then we can apply the same to any other number of believers who have been killed for their beliefs, arguably, under the same guise as your own theory, to stop their beliefs.

If we are to accept that basic premise, that believers are killed because their beliefs are true, then you would have only to look at any other number of other competing beliefs: Judaism, Islam, Zoroastrianism, Paganism, Buddhism, etc.

If we maintain the viewpoint of Christianity, that Jesus is the son of the one true god, AND that believers are killed to stop a true message from getting across, we can conclude that if any of the above were killed for their beliefs, then yours is wrong. If yours is right, theirs is wrong.

Or more likely, they are all wrong.
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We are all atheists, I simply believe in one less god than you do. Once you understand why you dismiss all other gods, then you will understand why I dismiss yours.

I forget who said that but I like the quote.
 
#910
#910
Sabanocchio said:
I was surprised the direction this thread turned fairly quickly. Some very good analytical approaches to the god issue. I am of the belief that as long as it doesn't affect me or my family, you can believe whatever you want. I find it difficult, myself, to believe we were created by a god that made us imperfect who then set out to punish us for these imperfections.
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I know we have had our conversations about certain things pertaining to our beliefs, but I would like to address the bold by asking you a question.

He didn't create us imperfect, he gave us free will. This is illustrated by the fall of man from God's graces, because of that free will. Is there anyone that tells you what to do and how to do it, and that's just the way it is?? No, you can chose to do what you want to, which if that includes doing something that would be considered evil, then that's your free will to do those things. So, it's not imperfection, it's the free will of man, which is from our Creator who has free will as well, to do the things we choose to do. There is not a single person on this Earth that one single person can control, which is part of our design, to learn and do as we choose, which may or may not be a design flaw, but considering whom I believe it comes from, free will can be a wonderful thing, if it's used correctly.

Make sense?? :hi:
 
#911
#911
Sabanocchio said:
Killing in the name of religion is not simply a Roman, Muslim ect. thing. Glass houses, friend.
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Wait, what?? We are talking about killing people who thought were to be spell casting witches, versus killing people just simply for a belief. That's a big difference.
 
#912
#912
I'm not going to get into a discussion about who is right and who is wrong. At the end of the day we will both walk away with the same opinion and think less of each other for the conversation.
 
#913
#913
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Wait, what?? We are talking about killing people who thought were to be spell casting witches, versus killing people just simply for a belief. That's a big difference.
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People have been killed for their religious beliefs in every country and in every religion. You are acting like it's just a christian thing and that somehow christians are more persecuted than other religions. That's completely and obviously untrue.
 
#914
#914
emainvol said:
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha... Oh my dear god that is dumb
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Is that the best you got?? Just call my post dumb, yet it's proven on a daily basis to be true?? How many Christians lately you heard about religiously and maliciously killing Muslims, because they believe differently that they do?? Even if it does happen today, it doesn't happen on as wide of a scale as it does the other way around.
 
#915
#915
Sabanocchio said:
I'm not going to get into a discussion about who is right and who is wrong. At the end of the day we will both walk away with the same opinion and think less of each other for the conversation.
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Why would I think less of you?? I know you outside this board, and consider you a friend. I just wanted to convey what I believed, and there was no thought of arguing about it brother. :hi:
 
#916
#916
Fair enough. I don't feel like defending my beliefs or putting you in a position to defend yours is what I was saying. Pretty much doing what you were doing: stating my opinion.
 
#917
#917
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Is that the best you got?? Just call my post dumb, yet it's proven on a daily basis to be true?? How many Christians lately you heard about religiously and maliciously killing Muslims, because they believe differently that they do?? Even if it does happen today, it doesn't happen on as wide of a scale as it does the other way around.
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Because Muslims are the only other group on the planet that could possibly be persecuted. Jews have gotten proper ****ed for centuries, even before Christians existed. So yes, to anyone with even the slightest bit of historical knowledge, that is mindnumbingly dumb
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#918
#918
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Is that the best you got?? Just call my post dumb, yet it's proven on a daily basis to be true?? How many Christians lately you heard about religiously and maliciously killing Muslims, because they believe differently that they do?? Even if it does happen today, it doesn't happen on as wide of a scale as it does the other way around.
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And none of this makes your belief true, or even more likely than any other belief. It merely points to differences between competing beliefs, individuals and groups.

It is an emotional response.
 
#919
#919
Sabanocchio said:
People have been killed for their religious beliefs in every country and in every religion. You are acting like it's just a christian thing and that somehow christians are more persecuted than other religions. That's completely and obviously untrue.
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There was a UK organization that recently studied 33 countries, and their amount of religious persecution, and they found that about 3/4 religious persecutions that happened in that country involved the persecution of a Christian by a person or group of another religion. Now, that number could be higher or lower in certain countries, and the 3/4 is an average.
 
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#920
#920
emainvol said:
Because Muslims are the only other group on the planet that could possibly be persecuted. Jews have gotten proper ****ed for centuries, even before Christians existed. So yes, to anyone with even the slightest bit of historical knowledge, that is mindnumbingly dumb
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Do you think it's a coincidence, that the two groups that come from the Jewish God, are the two most persecuted religious groups in the world??
 
#922
#922
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Do you think it's a coincidence, that the two groups that come from the Jewish God, are the two most persecuted religious groups in the world??
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Coincidence, no. Predicable, absolutely. By the very fundamental doctrine of the two religions, they are passive. Not necessarily historically, but most definitely in recent time.

Jesus taught to turn the other cheek, and Christians these days tend to convert by good will and fellowship.

The Jews often don't care if you are Jewish or not. If you are, great. If not, whatever.

The fact that the two groups are passive does not make either belief system true, but it does allow for them to be bullied.
 
#923
#923
fl0at said:
Coincidence, no. Predicable, absolutely. By the very fundamental doctrine of the two religions, they are passive. Not necessarily historically, but most definitely in recent time.

Jesus taught to turn the other cheek, and Christians these days tend to convert by good will and fellowship.

The Jews often don't care if you are Jewish or not. If you are, great. If not, whatever.

The fact that the two groups are passive does not make either belief system true, but it does allow for them to be bullied.
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They are also the two most politically involved religions throughout history, so yeah, **** happens.
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