liberals are children.

#26
#26
therealUT said:
Did you read Glenn Beck's Common Sense? He makes the claim that the only duties of the Federal Government that are explicit in the Constitution are to provide for trade and security through the military. Last time I checked the Constitution, I saw something about providing for the general welfare of the people.

Beck has his own vision of history which is at the same time unfalsifiable and completely false.
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Considering they weren't communists, I'm pretty sure you're reading that differently than it was intended.
 
#27
#27
azVolFan said:
Considering they weren't communists, I'm pretty sure you're reading that differently than it was intended.
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It matters not how I read it; it matters that Beck completely neglected to include it when he decided to expound upon the Constitutional Duties of the Federal Government.
 
#28
#28
therealUT said:
Did you read Glenn Beck's Common Sense? He makes the claim that the only duties of the Federal Government that are explicit in the Constitution are to provide for trade and security through the military. Last time I checked the Constitution, I saw something about providing for the general welfare of the people.

Beck has his own vision of history which is at the same time unfalsifiable and completely false.
Click to expand...

Glenn Beck, Stephen Colbert, Rush Limbaugh, Keith Olbermann, and the rest of the pundits are there to make money, first and foremost. NOTHING any of them say should be taken as exact truth.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#29
#29
IPorange said:
Guess you don't have any liberal friends.
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It's hard being friends with people who call you "Nazi". (And that was their explanation).

Get off the soapbox concerning the civility of discourse between liberals and conservatives.
 
#30
#30
azVolFan said:
It's hard being friends with people who call you "Nazi". (And that was their explanation).

Get off the soapbox concerning the civility of discourse between liberals and conservatives.
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It's hard making friends when you call them all Nazis, right?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#31
#31
therealUT said:
It matters not how I read it; it matters that Beck completely neglected to include it when he decided to expound upon the Constitutional Duties of the Federal Government.
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The Constitution was written when? The Communist Manifesto was written when? Like it or not, the Communist Manifesto changed the meaning of "general welfare of the people". That one statement would take Beck a week to explain. Leaving it out (and I'm taking you for your word) was the right thing to do considering what I have said.
 
#33
#33
therealUT said:
Did you read Glenn Beck's Common Sense? He makes the claim that the only duties of the Federal Government that are explicit in the Constitution are to provide for trade and security through the military. Last time I checked the Constitution, I saw something about providing for the general welfare of the people.
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General welfare did NOT mean social programs and the such. It certainly didn't mean wealth transfers since the USC outlawed direct taxation to include income taxes.

As late as the late 1800's, a US president refused to send relief to hurricane victims in Texas because it was expressly unconstitutional to do so. He took the 10th Amendment exactly as it was intended.... literally.

Beck has his own vision of history which is at the same time unfalsifiable and completely false.
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You are going to have to do better than that. I don't feel altogether comfortable defending him since I almost never watch him... but to make your point you need to take the names, dates, ideas, and actions of the historic figures he portrays and demonstrate that he is somehow misrepresenting them.

I am personally interested in the early progressive movement because I think it is the source of most of the problems we now face. I recognize some of the people he talks about and their ideals. I have not completely vetted everything he's said by any stretch... but there's a good bit of genuine history in it.
 
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#34
#34
azVolFan said:
The Constitution was written when? The Communist Manifesto was written when? Like it or not, the Communist Manifesto changed the meaning of "general welfare of the people". That one statement would take Beck a week to explain. Leaving it out (and I'm taking you for your word) was the right thing to do considering what I have said.
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Beck writes an entire book and, yet, you think he feels as though he has neither the time nor the competency to explain that?

Feel free to continue to defend Beck's apparent reputation as a defender of the truth, though.

I will say, though, that from a marketing standpoint, I imagine that Glenn Beck's understands that the majority of his potential customers would want a book that is as brief as possible and completely works to reinforce their views.
 
#39
#39
sjt18 said:
General welfare did NOT mean social programs and the such. It certainly didn't mean wealth transfers since the USC outlawed direct taxation to include income taxes.

As late as the late 1800's, a US president refused to send relief to hurricane victims in Texas because it was expressly unconstitutional to do so.



You are going to have to do better than that. I don't feel altogether comfortable defending him since I almost never watch him... but to make your point you need to take the names, dates, ideas, and actions of the historic figures he portrays and demonstrate that he is somehow misrepresenting them.

I am personally interested in the early progressive movement because I think it is the source of most of the problems we now face. I recognize some of the people he talks about and their ideals. I have not completely vetted everything he's said by any stretch... but there's a good bit of genuine history in it.
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Never once did I claim that general welfare means anything. I simply made the statement that those words are in the Constitution and Glenn Beck, knowingly (I assume), left them out.

I am sure he has his reasons; however, in doing so, he certainly cannot be said to be a truth-teller.

"A good bit of genuine history"? All of Howard Zinn's books are "a good bit of genuine history". In fact, I would be willing to go on record saying that at least 80% of what Zinn says has been vetted and is undisputed among historians; yet, with the other 20% he makes ludicrous and, at times, downright perverse claims concerning the founding of the nation.
 
#40
#40
IPorange said:
many of the conservatives on here are government employees.
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:dunno: So?

You asked if I had alot of liberal friends. You do not find many "thoughtful" liberals in private business (outside of Wall Street) much less small business.
 
#41
#41
VOLatile said:
It's hard making friends when you call them all Nazis, right?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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The point I'm making is that I've seen liberals call conservatives "Nazi" more than I have seen conservatives get a liberal explanation without name calling and it goes all the way up to the POTUS.

Do you have any idea at all what it's like to have the POTUS say what he has said about Fox News (mostly through subordinates of course) and be a Fox News watcher? I don't care what you say about me anymore than you care about what I say about you but I take extreme exception at being called names by the POTUS.
 
#43
#43
therealUT said:
Never once did I claim that general welfare means anything. I simply made the statement that those words are in the Constitution and Glenn Beck, knowingly (I assume), left them out.
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I may have to take a look. Someone gave me that book iirc.

I am sure he has his reasons; however, in doing so, he certainly cannot be said to be a truth-teller.
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Why? Because he cites facts then interprets them differently than you would like? Is it the responsibility of every "truth-teller" to give the other side's opinion as well? If so, there aren't many truth-tellers anywhere.

"A good bit of genuine history"? All of Howard Zinn's books are "a good bit of genuine history". In fact, I would be willing to go on record saying that at least 80% of what Zinn says has been vetted and is undisputed among historians; yet, with the other 20% he makes ludicrous and, at times, downright perverse claims concerning the founding of the nation.
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Again, how am I to vouch for everything the man has said when I have not heard or personally vetted everything he's said. I acknowledged that I have not listened to him often. When I have, I have recognized many of the obscure persons and facts he builds his case around. I have not personally seen him say anything false about these historical figures or events.

The last great, honest progressive Patrick Moynihan famously said that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts.

You can disagree with Beck's philosophy and opinions. If you disagree with his recitation of history then that should be very easy to discredit him with. Those are the kinds of criticisms I am looking for from his detractors... and not seeing.

In as much as he is sincere, I think you would have a hard time proving that his political viewpoint isn't very much in line with Jefferson and Madison also.
 
#44
#44
sjt18 said:
:dunno: So?

You asked if I had alot of liberal friends. You do not find many "thoughtful" liberals in private business (outside of Wall Street) much less small business.
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All those little shops and stores in downtown Knoxville and Market Square are definitely owned by hippie liberals. Same with Denver. There are plenty of left-wing small business owners.

Stereotypes rarely paint an accurate picture.
 
#45
#45
sjt18 said:
Why? Because he cites facts then interprets them differently than you would like? Is it the responsibility of every "truth-teller" to give the other side's opinion as well? If so, there aren't many truth-tellers anywhere.
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It is not so much about taking sides or interpreting the Constitution as much as fairly and fully disclosing it and representing it to his readers.

You stated earlier that he represents history and challenges others to rebut it. This is what I did. I rebut his representation of the Constitution. I do this on the grounds that his representation is incomplete. I have fulfilled my duty to rebut and have met this challenge.
 
#46
#46
IPorange said:
All those little shops and stores in downtown Knoxville and Market Square are definitely owned by hippie liberals. Same with Denver. There are plenty of left-wing small business owners.

Stereotypes rarely paint an accurate picture.
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You asked specifically about my friends and people I deal with. There are not many hippies or liberals running businesses in small towns in the midwest.
 
#47
#47
sjt18 said:
You asked specifically about my friends and people I deal with. There are not many hippies or liberals running businesses in small towns in the midwest.
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There may not be. I'm just pointing out that not all liberals/conservatives fit an archetype, which is what you insinuated.
 
#50
#50
azVolFan said:
The point I'm making is that I've seen liberals call conservatives "Nazi" more than I have seen conservatives get a liberal explanation without name calling and it goes all the way up to the POTUS.

Do you have any idea at all what it's like to have the POTUS say what he has said about Fox News (mostly through subordinates of course) and be a Fox News watcher? I don't care what you say about me anymore than you care about what I say about you but I take extreme exception at being called names by the POTUS.
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Would you like a tissue? The criticism and harsh words for Fox News isn't limited to the White House.
 
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