Liberals are greedy and uncaring

[sjt18]

I dunno.' The wealthier have more money to give?

As I have said before, liberalism is for people who cannot do math. It was done by percentage and even points out that the avg liberal household makes more than the avg conservative household. IIRC, liberals also have fewer children on avg driving disposable income up.

The study is flawed? The author is probably the single most biased person in the world on this subject given that he is head of the ultra conservative American Enterprise Institute?

Why am I not surprised that you accuse someone of being biased for pointing to facts you don't like?

The study relied entirely on self-reporting, as opposed to objective measures? The study overweights religious-based charitable giving?

Anything but admit the truth, huh? Conservatives are stingy with the money of others but generous with their own. Liberals are stingy with their own money but quite generous with the money of others.

Those would be a few reasons. Among about a zillion more.

None of which are necessarily true but they do help you try to wiggle out of admitting the inherent selfishness, arrogance, and self-centeredness of liberalism.

 

[sjt18]

whats wrong with church sponsored shelters and community centers?
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The cheese their members buy and donate from commercial grocers isn't as good as gov't cheese I guess...

Seriously though... you have to ask a liberal this? Unless a liberal gets credit at no expense to them... it must be bad.

 

[rjd970]

whats wrong with church sponsored shelters and community centers?
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Not a thing. But the discussion was about Liberals being less giving.

The majority of the donations, I would be willing to bet, constitue church tithes as opposed to direct community center/shelter donations. From my seats tithes go to who can build the biggest church and pay their pastor the most. The note that Bush, who wore his faith on his sleeve and wouldn't have got elected with pandering to the Jesus crowd happened to win in states where giveing was highest (ie, churchgoers) doesn't surprise me one bit.

Nice try.

 

[MG1968]

tithing and charitable donations are two completely different things

 

[rjd970]

tithing and charitable donations are two completely different things

From a taxation and expemption standpoint, they are exactly the same.

Does the above article make the distinction between the two...ie...not including church tithes as charity in the calculation?

 

[rjd970]

I see the above statistics and see what I already know, conservatives attend and give money to churches at a higher percentage than liberals.

In other news, the sky is blue.

 

[n_huffhines]

From a taxation and expemption standpoint, they are exactly the same.

Does the above article make the distinction between the two...ie...not including church tithes as charity in the calculation?

Charity is charity...what is the difference? If you are a member of the NRA, or a church, or Green Peace, donations are charitable.

 

[VOLatile]

Charity is charity...what is the difference? If you are a member of the NRA, or a church, or Green Peace, donations are charitable.

How donations are spent is what it's all about, though. If the donations are given to a church, and the church uses those donations to enlarge the church or pay the pastor more money, then the donations aren't going to the needy and does not constitute being charitable.

I think it was NEOCON that said he keeps track of where his tithes go and what they're used for. Most people, though, do not.

 

[RespectTradition]

Color me shocked, Church donations are included and Bush the born again won the majority of those states. Shocked I tell you, shocked.

He states on pages 47 and 50, religious conservatives and religious liberals give to charity at the same rate--91%-- although religious conservatives give 10% more than religious liberals.

 

[RespectTradition]

well you are greedy for wanting to keep your own money. otherwise you wouldn't take tax write-offs for giving to charity.

Matthew 6
1"Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. 2 "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

I don't write off my donations, that would not be giving in secret if I tell someone. Much less if I tell them so that I can gain money. But I am pickier than most people.

 

[BeecherVol]

How donations are spent is what it's all about, though. If the donations are given to a church, and the church uses those donations to enlarge the church or pay the pastor more money, then the donations aren't going to the needy and does not constitute being charitable.

I think it was NEOCON that said he keeps track of where his tithes go and what they're used for. Most people, though, do not.

Most church going folks don't consider their tithe a "donation", at least not the ones I know. It typically covers the operating budget that our church votes on every year. It contains delegated money toward specific charities that the members decide on within the budget.

Past that, their are "donations" or "gifts" that are given for a specific purpose. Nashville Rescue Mission, tornado victims, even a slush amount which also includes food and clothes that are used for families that walk into the church.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I dunno.' The wealthier have more money to give? The study is flawed? The author is probably the single most biased person in the world on this subject given that he is head of the ultra conservative American Enterprise Institute? The study relied entirely on self-reporting, as opposed to objective measures? The study overweights religious-based charitable giving?


Those would be a few reasons. Among about a zillion more.

Are you implying conservatives have more money than liberals?

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Not a thing. But the discussion was about Liberals being less giving.

The majority of the donations, I would be willing to bet, constitue church tithes as opposed to direct community center/shelter donations. From my seats tithes go to who can build the biggest church and pay their pastor the most. The note that Bush, who wore his faith on his sleeve and wouldn't have got elected with pandering to the Jesus crowd happened to win in states where giveing was highest (ie, churchgoers) doesn't surprise me one .

nice try?
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[OrangeEmpire]

Not a thing. But the discussion was about Liberals being less giving.

The majority of the donations, I would be willing to bet, constitue church tithes as opposed to direct community center/shelter donations. From my seats tithes go to who can build the biggest church and pay their pastor the most. The note that Bush, who wore his faith on his sleeve and wouldn't have got elected with pandering to the Jesus crowd happened to win in states where giveing was highest (ie, churchgoers) doesn't surprise me one bit.

Nice try.

nice try?
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[OrangeEmpire]

I see the above statistics and see what I already know, conservatives attend and give money to churches at a higher percentage than liberals.

In other news, the sky is blue.

cant remember, u the guy who hates christians from st louis?
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[RespectTradition]

How donations are spent is what it's all about, though. If the donations are given to a church, and the church uses those donations to enlarge the church or pay the pastor more money, then the donations aren't going to the needy and does not constitute being charitable.

I think it was NEOCON that said he keeps track of where his tithes go and what they're used for. Most people, though, do not.

If you use a standard of how donations are spent is what it's all about, then who decides what is an acceptable use or not? What I mean is, you may think that money spent to save the rain forests is great, but Joe may not. Joe may think its great to pay an evangelist to spread the word and save people's eternal souls, you may not. Once you begin to judge the relative value of each donation, you start an entirely subjective argument. Subjective arguments don't have correct answers, just opinions.

 

[VOLatile]

If you use a standard of how donations are spent is what it's all about, then who decides what is an acceptable use or not? What I mean is, you may think that money spent to save the rain forests is great, but Joe may not. Joe may think its great to pay an evangelist to spread the word and save people's eternal souls, you may not. Once you begin to judge the relative value of each donation, you start an entirely subjective argument. Subjective arguments don't have correct answers, just opinions.

Which is exactly what this is. Republicans dump more money in their churches, maybe Democrats don't find value in doing so? The numbers are offset by subjectivity.

 

[rjd970]

nice try?
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Making the straw man. I make an argument against church donations, and all of a sudden I am agains Church community centers and shelters.

Like I said, Nice Try.

...and yes, I am the guy from St. Louis that thinks all religion is racket and a farce. Christianity included.

 

[rjd970]

Most church going folks don't consider their tithe a "donation", at least not the ones I know. It typically covers the operating budget that our church votes on every year. It contains delegated money toward specific charities that the members decide on within the budget.

Past that, their are "donations" or "gifts" that are given for a specific purpose. Nashville Rescue Mission, tornado victims, even a slush amount which also includes food and clothes that are used for families that walk into the church.

None of that matters, the tithe is considered a deduction, which is probably where this guy is getting his numbers. Are you really saying people don't deduct their tithes because it isn't a "donation"?

Of course they do, which skews the numbers here. More conservatives attend church than liberals, hence more give to "charity" (aka tithing, church donation, etc). It isn't that conservatives are more charitable, they are just more willing to give it to God, because, you know, he needs it.

 

[BeecherVol]

None of that matters, the tithe is considered a deduction, which is probably where this guy is getting his numbers. Are you really saying people don't deduct their tithes because it isn't a "donation"?

Of course they do, which skews the numbers here. More conservatives attend church than liberals, hence more give to "charity" (aka tithing, church donation, etc). It isn't that conservatives are more charitable, they are just more willing to give it to God, because, you know, he needs it.

I don't care where he got his numbers, or why he even bothered putting it together. I didn't mention taxes, and didn't mention deductions either. Just clearing up the differences between tithes and gifts/donations as they pertain to the church, and where the money goes.

 

[rjd970]

I don't care where he got his numbers, or why he even bothered putting it together. I didn't mention taxes, and didn't mention deductions either. Just clearing up the differences between tithes and gifts/donations as they pertain to the church, and where the money goes.

Understand. But when it comes time to fill out your taxes (creating the basis for this guy's numbers I'm assuming) the two are indistinguishable, and, doesn't say a thing about who is more charitable if you don't include tithe in your definition of charity.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Making the straw man. I make an argument against church donations, and all of a sudden I am agains Church community centers and shelters.

Like I said, Nice Try.

...and yes, I am the guy from St. Louis that thinks all religion is racket and a farce. Christianity included.

whew, thought u lost your sense of humor
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[BeecherVol]

Understand. But when it comes time to fill out your taxes (creating the basis for this guy's numbers I'm assuming) the two are indistinguishable, and, doesn't say a thing about who is more charitable if you don't include tithe in your definition of charity.

You could be 100% correct on his figures and claims.

I think its fantastic for anyone to be charitable with their money in regards to helping people, and even better when they don't care if a parade follows them. That's why the pissing contest over who gives the most is irrelevant to me to begin with.

 

[rjd970]

You could be 100% correct on his figures and claims.

I think its fantastic for anyone to be charitable with their money in regards to helping people, and even better when they don't care if a parade follows them. That's why the pissing contest over who gives the most is irrelevant to me to begin with.

+1

We annually give to a variety of secular and non-secular charity organizations.

 

[BelAirVol]

You could be 100% correct on his figures and claims.

I think its fantastic for anyone to be charitable with their money in regards to helping people, and even better when they don't care if a parade follows them. That's why the pissing contest over who gives the most is irrelevant to me to begin with.

I feel the same way. It's all about exercising some class. Talking about how much you give is no different than talking about how much you have. They are both traits of the nouveau riche', which as a group don't always exhibit classy behavoir. I would much rather see someone be inconspicuous as far as charity is concerned.