Lol hopson

#126
#126
No one's saying that's a coach's primary job, but you're tripping if you don't think player development isn't a significant portion of a coach's responsibilities.
 
#127
#127
Chris4Vols22 said:
No one's saying that's a coach's primary job, but you're tripping if you don't think player development isn't a significant portion of a coach's responsibilities.
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Of course. It still doesn't matter unless you win games, and it's nearly impossible to win games consistently if your players/team don't get better. It goes hand in hand. There is a difference between what you just said and preparing players for the NBA. Do you think TX Ath dept wants Barnes to win a conference title and make an ncaa run, or are they just happy that he keeps getting players drafted each year. Both he and the university would prefer the former. Again, I've never said that coaches shouldn't develop players. They should. They should develop players and help mold kids into men. The NBA is a different argument and animal, one which would be more understood if Cal wasn't running a farm system right in front of us.
 
#128
#128
LawVol13 said:
Look at where Hopson was ranked coming out of high school and take a glance at the names above and below him. Virtually all of them are in the NBA.
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LV, do you think Hopson would be in the NBA if he went to play for Cal for one year out of school? Self? Williams?

I don't think so. You can also find plenty of mcd's AA's that went to play for the greatest college coaches and are no where to be found.
 
#129
#129
pl3 said:
LV, do you think Hopson would be in the NBA if he went to play for Cal for one year out of school? Self? Williams?

I don't think so. You can also find plenty of mcd's AA's that went to play for the greatest college coaches and are no where to be found.
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I just pointed out that Bruce sucked at developing his talent.

Chris4Vols22 said:
So Bruce's inability to develop players over time had nothing to do with it? Tyler, Jajuan, Chris, JP, Bobby, and Wayne disagree.
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#131
#131
You tell me. Bruce had some talent, won some games, no players in the NBA. Do the math. He sucked at developing talent.
 
#132
#132
Bruce develops guys in his system, but said system does not translate to the NBA.
 
#133
#133
Chris4Vols22 said:
You tell me. Bruce had some talent, won some games, no players in the NBA. Do the math. He sucked at developing talent.
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You have your mind made up, regardless, and are stuck on the nba deal. It's such a tired argument to hear that a coach with a top 10 winning % has players getting worse under his watch. Doesn't that sound ridiculous?
 
#134
#134
pl3 said:
Of course. It still doesn't matter unless you win games, and it's nearly impossible to win games consistently if your players/team don't get better. It goes hand in hand. There is a difference between what you just said and preparing players for the NBA. Do you think TX Ath dept wants Barnes to win a conference title and make an ncaa run, or are they just happy that he keeps getting players drafted each year. Both he and the university would prefer the former. Again, I've never said that coaches shouldn't develop players. They should. They should develop players and help mold kids into men. The NBA is a different argument and animal, one which would be more understood if Cal wasn't running a farm system right in front of us.
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If he is having players getting drafted every year wouldn't he win conference championships and making ncaa runs? That would mean he is getting top notch players consistently therefore contending for championships.
 
#135
#135
pl3 said:
You have your mind made up, regardless, and are stuck on the nba deal. It's such a tired argument to hear that a coach with a top 10 winning % has players getting worse under his watch. Doesn't that sound ridiculous?
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What's more tiring is using winning % from DII and including it with his D I winning %. Bruce did a great job for UT and I loved his time here, but his style just isn't one that leads itself to developing an NBA skill set.
 
#136
#136
JZVOL said:
Bruce develops guys in his system, but said system does not translate to the NBA.
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Exactly right. The NFL/college game are similar and skills translate well. Same for Mlb/college baseball. NBA is just different because the game is played differently from college to pro. A college coach has to focus on his system to win games, which is his job. If there were a lot of coaches so adept at developing NBA talent over 4 yrs, there would be more than a handful of srs being drafted from the 1200 or so sr players who are out of eligibility each year. Without looking, I'm guessing maybe 4-5 srs were drafted this year? So .3 % of srs may get drafted, which goes back to my original point that a coach's job is to win games and graduate players because the chances of a 4 yr player getting drafted and making a roster are negligible.
 
#137
#137
pl3 said:
Exactly right. The NFL/college game are similar and skills translate well. Same for Mlb/college baseball. NBA is just different because the game is played differently from college to pro. A college coach has to focus on his system to win games, which is his job. If there were a lot of coaches so adept at developing NBA talent over 4 yrs, there would be more than a handful of srs being drafted from the 1200 or so sr players who are out of eligibility each year. Without looking, I'm guessing maybe 4-5 srs were drafted this year? So .3 % of srs may get drafted, which goes back to my original point that a coach's job is to win games and graduate players because the chances of a 4 yr player getting drafted and making a roster are negligible.
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It's not a "college basketball vs. the NBA" thing. It's Pearl's system. No one uses that in the NBA.

College football isn't any different...look at how QBs from spread offenses are doing...
 
#138
#138
GBO18 said:
If he is having players getting drafted every year wouldn't he win conference championships and making ncaa runs? That would mean he is getting top notch players consistently therefore contending for championships.
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Yet TX has 2 reg season titles and no conference titles in the last 14 years with all that NBA talent, which is obviously better suited for the nba rather than college game.
 
#140
#140
pl3 said:
Yet TX has 2 reg season titles and no conference titles in the last 14 years with all that NBA talent, which is obviously better suited for the nba rather than college game.
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Well that points to coaching more than anything and how come TX is still recruiting all that NBA talent.
 
#141
#141
JZVOL said:
What's more tiring is using winning % from DII and including it with his D I winning %. Bruce did a great job for UT and I loved his time here, but his style just isn't one that leads itself to developing an NBA skill set.
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I don't disagree at all, but that doesn't mean players get worse either. You can't win games with players/teams that get worse.

JZ, which college coaches are best at developing players for the nba?
 
#142
#142
pl3 said:
I don't disagree at all, but that doesn't mean players get worse either. You can't win games with players/teams that get worse.

JZ, which college coaches are best at developing players for the nba?
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No one is saying players get worse...a lot of Pearl's just didn't improve much
 
#143
#143
pl3 said:
I don't disagree at all, but that doesn't mean players get worse either. You can't win games with players/teams that get worse.

JZ, which college coaches are best at developing players for the nba?
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I don't think guys gets worse by any means.

Good question, and I think it's hard to really answer because most players are drafted after their freshman and sophomore years for the most part so it's harder to really gauge that in this day and age.

Would Tobias have gone any higher if came out of Kentucky rather than UT? I doubt it. But if I'm a one-and-done PG I'm picking UK over UT for several reasons.

If I'm more of a classic type of post I'd choose Ohio St, Kansas, Mich. St, Duke among others.

Most coaches have a specialty in developing a specific type of player while Pearl is more known for (a style of play) pressing and full-court play which isn't the NBA game at all, as we all know.
 
#144
#144
Good post. And to my point, most guys drafted are going to be drafted, no matter where they go and scouts know it early. If they stay four years with Williams or Self, the player's stock has a good of a chance to rise over 4 as it does fall over a 4 yr span in regards to NBA ready. Generally, players are ready, and they are ready early, regardless of the coach (Harris?). On a side note, where do you think Scotty would be if he had gone to ky to play for Cal?
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#145
#145
pl3 said:
LV, do you think Hopson would be in the NBA if he went to play for Cal for one year out of school? Self? Williams?

I don't think so. You can also find plenty of mcd's AA's that went to play for the greatest college coaches and are no where to be found.
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Hopson wouldn't be an NBA star, but he would have been drafted and made a roster.
 
#146
#146
pl3 said:
LV, do you think Hopson would be in the NBA if he went to play for Cal for one year out of school? Self? Williams?

I don't think so. You can also find plenty of mcd's AA's that went to play for the greatest college coaches and are no where to be found.
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I think another coach would have pushed Hopson much harder than Pearl. He would have quit or made the League with a different coach, in my opinion.
 
#147
#147
pl3 said:
Good post. And to my point, most guys drafted are going to be drafted, no matter where they go and scouts know it early. If they stay four years with Williams or Self, the player's stock has a good of a chance to rise over 4 as it does fall over a 4 yr span in regards to NBA ready. Generally, players are ready, and they are ready early, regardless of the coach (Harris?). On a side note, where do you think Scotty would be if he had gone to ky to play for Cal?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I think Scotty would have been a first round pick or left school.
My reasoning is this: Pearl needed Scotty to succeed as much if not more than Scotty needed Pearl in order to take the program to the next level in terms of success and Pearl being able to say he could get guys to the NBA. That's not a good position to be in as a coach, and therefore Pearl coddled Scotty and did not appear to show tough love to Scotty.

If Scotty goes to UK and plays for Cal, Cal doesn't need Scotty because there is a line of (potential NBA) players standing behind Scotty waiting for their chance, therefore Cal can say you do it this way or get the hell out of here.

Basically Cal has a card to play that isn't in Pearl's deck of cards.
 
#150
#150
Pearl was so excited about getting a 5* kid to sign that he felt he had to play him. He didn't push him and require that he give maximum effort to be a starter. He couldn't bring in a 5* and afford not to play him, hoping that more of those type players would come. Hopson took advantage of the situation, didn't give his best effort to improve or play hard every game. It came back to bite him, as it usually does in that situation.
 
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