Looking back, should not have fired Phil

#51
#51
BeattieFeathers said:
One year removed from Atlanta. Should have tried harder to get Cutcliffe instead of Fooley. Phil was hamstrung in who he could hire by Hamilton. We have made enough blunders to last a lifetime.:hi:
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#52
#52
I don't really want to bash a VFL but Fulmer had to go. I was in school at that time and talked with 2 different players who said Phil just did not care anymore. He never seemed to get amped at practice, and basically what we saw on the side lines, him walking around with his arms folded, is what he did when working with the team. One of the players said Fulmer didn't even know his name because he was a freshman that wasn't starting. I am not saying Phil did not care about UT or the football program at UT but from what I have heard the energy and passion was gone from him.
 
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#55
#55
I really think Portland should have drafted Jordan instead of Sam Bowie. I also really wish I hadn't opened this thread. Last one I read by the op.Just moronic.
 
#56
#56
If Fulmer had hired the Michigan offensive staff instead of Clawsen and started recruiting again he would probably still be here. But, he screwed up and lost his job.
 
#61
#61
jcvet33 said:
If Fulmer had hired the Michigan offensive staff instead of Clawsen and started recruiting again he would probably still be here. But, he screwed up and lost his job.
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I don't get why people blame Clawson so much. He's seemed to do fine after he left here.
 
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#62
#62
Phil had to go. Cut was not the answer here at head coach. Hiring Dooley is what really tanked us. We bring in a loser with no credibility and lost Kiffin's best players. We had a winning record and good recruiting classes. With a better coach we keep Bryce Brown and Aaron Douglass plus Bray develops way better. We still had a chance to repair things but Dooley nuked it all.
 
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#63
#63
fade route said:
His replacements have absolutely zero to do with his ability to coach in the SEC. Just because we botched the following hires does not mean we should have kept him. It just means we should've got the hires right.
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This is and still remains the dumbest thing posted on VolNation. A lot of suckers have swallowed it whole because, well, that's what suckers do.

I'll put it this way. We fired Fulmer because we said we could do better. I like Butch; he's try #3. Let's just hope he can get us back to the Fulmer "down years." That's exactly where we are after firing a coach "who couldn't cut it in the SEC." Our worst football run in living memory.

SMDH.
 
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#64
#64
fade route said:
His replacements have absolutely zero to do with his ability to coach in the SEC. Just because we botched the following hires does not mean we should have kept him. It just means we should've got the hires right.
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PS - the right coach to hire in 2009 was on campus this week, btw.
 
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#65
#65
SDV said:
Why hasn't he been hired anywhere?
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totally enjoying his family and all those grand kids. Has no desire to coach. Really, lost it shortly as the girls began to deliver additional grand kids.

Has gotten several calls the last several years but just no desire..

I retired last year and regret not retiring 5 years ago. I often wonder if CPF doesn't think same way and wish he had gotten out earlier.

15 years is way too long to coach at Tennessee. 10 years is about the max for a head coach and assistants should not stay longer than 5..

JMO from observing Fulmer years up close
 
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#66
#66
Eddie Vol Halen said:
This is and still remains the dumbest thing posted on VolNation. A lot of suckers have swallowed it whole because, well, that's what suckers do.

I'll put it this way. We fired Fulmer because it we said we could do better. I like Butch; he's try #3. Let's just hope he can get us back to the Fulmer "down years." That's exactly where we are after firing a coach "who couldn't cut it in the SEC." Our worst football run in living memory.

SMDH.
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Answer this one simple question: why hasn't Phil gotten another job? We all know he's lobbied for a few. I mean, if he's this ball of fire and passion that some think he currently is, then why hasn't another school hired him?

His recruiting, evaluation and development were on par with conference USA. He did not want to put in the time and effort. 2005 and 2008 were disasters. And you think things would have gotten better? No. It was time for him to hang it up. As soon as some on here realize this the better your lives will be.
 
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#67
#67
Eddie Vol Halen said:
This is and still remains the dumbest thing posted on VolNation. A lot of suckers have swallowed it whole because, well, that's what suckers do.

I'll put it this way. We fired Fulmer because it we said we could do better. I like Butch; he's try #3. Let's just hope he can get us back to the Fulmer "down years." That's exactly where we are after firing a coach "who couldn't cut it in the SEC." Our worst football run in living memory.

SMDH.
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Ironic you're calling something stupid after this post.

It's not dumb at all to think that because Kiffin and Dooley were stupid hires does NOT mean Fulmer didn't deserve to lose his job or it was time to make a move. It means someone did a horrible job of replacing them. If you don't subscribe to some simplistic form of logic where you automatically think B automatically caused or proves A, then it's not hard at all to be able to critically understand that they are 2 different issues.

If you're a business owner and you have an employee who's not getting it done, and you fire them, and their replacement turns out to not be very good, does that automatically mean you shouldn't have let the first guy go? Or does it prove you did a crappy job replacing him?

And I say this as someone who believes Fulmer should have gotten one more season, so yes I believe letting him go when and how they did was a mistake. But I don't think just because they replaced him with 2 bafoons proves he shouldn't have been let go, it proves they made 2 bad hires.
 
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#68
#68
VolinMichigan said:
Answer this one simple question: why hasn't Phil gotten another job? We all know he's lobbied for a few. I mean, if he's this ball of fire and passion that some think he currently is, then why hasn't another school hired him?

His recruiting, evaluation and development were on par with conference USA. He did not want to put in the time and effort. 2005 and 2008 were disasters. And you think things would have gotten better? No. It was time for him to hang it up. As soon as some on here realize this the better your lives will be.
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he took a look at one job very seriously. Louisville before they hired Strong. outside of that one he has not "pursued" any other job.

Fans that think he still has the passion are just disappointed in the last 6 years and the way things have been. Had he remained, it is likely the record would have been better but not where fans would have wanted. That just means fan base would still be very fractured. It was time even though Hamilton handled very poorly. Of course Hamilton did everything very poorly.
 
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#69
#69
LWSVOL said:
he took a look at one job very seriously. Louisville before they hired Strong. outside of that one he has not "pursued" any other job.

Fans that think he still has the passion are just disappointed in the last 6 years and the way things have been. Had he remained, it is likely the record would have been better but not where fans would have wanted. That just means fan base would still be very fractured. It was time even though Hamilton handled very poorly. Of course Hamilton did everything very poorly.
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Didn't he also have Peyton Manning call and put a good word in for him at Kansas before they hired the fupa master?
 
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#70
#70
VolinMichigan said:
Answer this one simple question: why hasn't Phil gotten another job? We all know he's lobbied for a few. I mean, if he's this ball of fire and passion that some think he currently is, then why hasn't another school hired him?

His recruiting, evaluation and development were on par with conference USA. He did not want to put in the time and effort. 2005 and 2008 were disasters. And you think things would have gotten better? No. It was time for him to hang it up. As soon as some on here realize this the better your lives will be.
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I think the answer is a little bit of both. I don't think any major program would go after him in 2008/2009 unless it was an Arkansas/John L. Smith situation and someone needed basically an interim coach. I believe if Fulmer was going to go somewhere it would have been to a team in a decent position to compete for a major conference title, and honestly I don't think that was going to happen.

At the same time I believe he would have had no problems getting a lower major or higher mid-major job if he really wanted it, but he likely really didn't. And for that I don't blame him. Unless he just really wanted to coach somewhere and missed it that much, he probably determined he'd be happier not coaching and doing TV/radio work. I mean if a guy like Weis can get the Kansas job then I have to believe Fulmer could have done at least as good as that if not better.
 
#71
#71
VolsSportsFan said:
Ironic you're calling something stupid after this post.

It's not dumb at all to think that because Kiffin and Dooley were stupid hires does NOT mean Fulmer didn't deserve to lose his job or it was time to make a move. It means someone did a horrible job of replacing them. If you don't subscribe to some simplistic form of logic where you automatically think B automatically caused or proves A, then it's not hard at all to be able to critically understand that they are 2 different issues.

If you're a business owner and you have an employee who's not getting it done, and you fire them, and their replacement turns out to be very good, does that automatically mean you shouldn't have let the first guy go? Or does it prove you did a crappy job replacing him?

And I say this as someone who believes Fulmer should have gotten one more season, so yes I believe letting him go when and how they did was a mistake. But I don't think just because they replaced him with 2 bafoons proves he shouldn't have been let go, it proves they made 2 bad hires.
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if you research coaches that have tenure for 10 years or more who get fired or retire, you will see that the majority of the time there is a string of "bad hires". Many times it takes 6 or 7 hires before school gets it right. There are many examples of this and it mainly is, there are more failures than successes in this profession.

LSU after McClendon
Alabama after Bryant
Georgia after Dooley
Auburn after Jordan
Tennessee after Neyland
 
#72
#72
VolinMichigan said:
Didn't he also have Peyton Manning call and put a good word in for him at Kansas before they hired the fupa master?
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there was a discussion but he was not interested in Kansas. Conversation ended quickly. He has had calls and they talked (Sexton actually) but he has just not been that interested in anything.
 
#73
#73
LWSVOL said:
if you research coaches that have tenure for 10 years or more who get fired or retire, you will see that the majority of the time there is a string of "bad hires". Many times it takes 6 or 7 hires before school gets it right. There are many examples of this and it mainly is, there are more failures than successes in this profession.

LSU after McClendon
Alabama after Bryant
Georgia after Dooley
Auburn after Jordan
Tennessee after Neyland
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I get that but it still doesn't "prove" that a bad replacement means you shouldn't have done it; unless we're basically arguing basically semantics (kinda) in that they should have had a solid replacement lined up as part of the process, to which that part I'll agree. And I didn't consider Kiffin as a solid replacement plan.

The other part I somewhat take issue with is there seems to be an assumption that had Fulmer stayed, he would have turned it around. I don't think that's assumption that can be made. While I think he deserved another year, I think by now he would have been fired or retired anyway.
 
#74
#74
fade route said:
His replacements have absolutely zero to do with his ability to coach in the SEC. Just because we botched the following hires does not mean we should have kept him. It just means we should've got the hires right.
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Really stupid logic. You don't make a decision like bat in a vacuum. You can't have one without the other.
 
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#75
#75
VolsSportsFan said:
I get that but it still doesn't "prove" that a bad replacement means you shouldn't have done it; unless we're basically arguing basically semantics (kinda) in that they should have had a solid replacement lined up as part of the process, to which that part I'll agree. And I didn't consider Kiffin as a solid replacement plan.

The other part I somewhat take issue with is there seems to be an assumption that had Fulmer stayed, he would have turned it around. I don't think that's assumption that can be made. While I think he deserved another year, I think by now he would have been fired or retired anyway.
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I agree, bad hires have nothing to do with should someone be replaced. One has to assume the replacement will work since that is why you do it.

Kiffin was lined up even before CPF got the word he was done. IMO, Hamilton was afraid it would get out and that is why the "firing" happened when it did. In case it came out and also in case CPF rallied and went bowling.

It was the right time and he and I are friends. I wouldn't say that to him but the way the support was it was the appropriate time.

If CBJ doesn't turn it around, 10 years from now this same debate will be happening.. IMO
 
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