Looking back, should not have fired Phil

[oregonvol]

I'll never understand what brain injuries have occurred in folks who think we should have stuck with Fulmer. If 7-8 wins a season is good enough here (and really, given his downward trajectory, that's being kind), then we never would have hired Fulmer in the first place. We would have stuck with Majors.

 

[BeattieFeathers]

I get that but it still doesn't "prove" that a bad replacement means you shouldn't have done it; unless we're basically arguing basically semantics (kinda) in that they should have had a solid replacement lined up as part of the process, to which that part I'll agree. And I didn't consider Kiffin as a solid replacement plan.

The other part I somewhat take issue with is there seems to be an assumption that had Fulmer stayed, he would have turned it around. I don't think that's assumption that can be made. While I think he deserved another year, I think by now he would have been fired or retired anyway.

That is your assumption. Bear Bryant and joepa both had problems in the middle of their coaching careers. Neither would have survived in today's world. It's just not easy to hire great coaches. Our fans have an inflated sense of the value of our program related to others. I mean, we had half a fan base convinced that Jin gruden wanted this job! We settled for a fifth or sixth choice. Now, I think we got lucky but nobody wanted butch jones immediately after Fooley was fired.
I believe Fulmer would have won 8 or 9 games and gotten us to atlanta at least once. The east is in such a state of flux, who knows? We might have went two or three times. We wouldn't have been so bad for so long, that's for certain. k:

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

totally enjoying his family and all those grand kids. Has no desire to coach. Really, lost it shortly as the girls began to deliver additional grand kids.

Has gotten several calls the last several years but just no desire..

I retired last year and regret not retiring 5 years ago. I often wonder if CPF doesn't think same way and wish he had gotten out earlier.

15 years is way too long to coach at Tennessee. 10 years is about the max for a head coach and assistants should not stay longer than 5..

JMO from observing Fulmer years up close

/thread

I completely agree about tenure too. You have to be a Fulmer / Majors love for the university to last longer than 6 - 7 years really. I think the recruiting demands at Tennessee require that we be ready to pay top dollar for top assistants and be prepared for turnover.

 

[BeattieFeathers]

I'll never understand what brain injuries have occurred in folks who think we should have stuck with Fulmer. If 7-8 wins a season is good enough here (and really, given his downward trajectory, that's being kind), then we never would have hired Fulmer in the first place. We would have stuck with Majors.

You obviously don't know why majors was fired. It had zero to do with his record!!!!!!!!!!! Good grief......get it right!:banghead2:

 

[RDU VOL#14]

If Fulmer had hired the Michigan offensive staff instead of Clawsen and started recruiting again he would probably still be here. But, he screwed up and lost his job.

We would've gotten Ryan Mallett as well. I'm pretty sure I've read a quote where CPF says if he could it all over again he would've gone a different way than Clawson. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

I don't get why people blame Clawson so much. He's seemed to do fine after he left here.

Dave Clawson is a good coach. He was just the wrong coach. I hate to place blame on 1 guy bc there are 21 other guys on the field, but you can't say that Crompton wasn't a big issue until the 4th quarter of the Auburn game in'09. I do blame Clawson for calling 42 pass plays in the UCLA game. With that offense we should have thrown the ball 15-18 times a game.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

The one question diehard Fulmer supporters just can't answer.

Larry answered it, and it's been answered for quite awhile. This again ranks near the top of the pyramid of dumb but...

...suckas gone suck.

(Why would a HoF, all-Orange Vol really want to coach anywhere else anyway? He's not freakin' Lane Kiffin.)

 

[VolsSportsFan]

That is your assumption. Bear Bryant and joepa both had problems in the middle of their coaching careers. Neither would have survived in today's world. It's just not easy to hire great coaches. Our fans have an inflated sense of the value of our program related to others. I mean, we had half a fan base convinced that Jin gruden wanted this job! We settled for a fifth or sixth choice. Now, I think we got lucky but nobody wanted butch jones immediately after Fooley was fired.
I believe Fulmer would have won 8 or 9 games and gotten us to atlanta at least once. The east is in such a state of flux, who knows? We might have went two or three times. We wouldn't have been so bad for so long, that's for certain. k:

Either way it's an assumption, but you can't say "for certain" we wouldn't have been so bad. On top of that, the expectations would have been different.

The only reason people somewhat put up with Kiffin going 7-6, and Dooley going 6-7 his first year, and Jones going 5-7 last year, is because of the situation. Had Fulmer stayed and gone 7-6 the next year, the calls to fire him would have gotten even worse, and I see nothing that makes me believe just because Fulmer was coaching it would have been an 8 or 9 win season the next year.

 

[VOLfrombama]

Not letting Fulmer go would have been delaying the inevitable. Hamilton's complete failure during the hires that followed had nothing to do with the fact that it was time to move on.

Like LWS said, the fan base was divided. There are so many coaches we could have hired had we any inkling of a capable AD.

Either way we are where we are now and theres nothing any of us can do about it and i hope everyone stays patient with bUTch.

 

[fade route]

Larry answered it, and it's been answered for quite awhile. This again ranks near the top of the pyramid of dumb but...

...suckas gone suck.

(Why would a HoF, all-Orange Vol really want to coach anywhere else anyway? He's not freakin' Lane Kiffin.)

He's never been seriously pursued even after publicly saying he would like to coach again. You can keep calling me dumb if you want, but I'm right as usual.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

We would've gotten Ryan Mallett as well. I'm pretty sure I've read a quote where CPF says if he could it all over again he would've gone a different way than Clawson. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.




Dave Clawson is a good coach. He was just the wrong coach. I hate to place blame on 1 guy bc there are 21 other guys on the field, but you can't say that Crompton wasn't a big issue until the 4th quarter of the Auburn game in'09. I do blame Clawson for calling 42 pass plays in the UCLA game. With that offense we should have thrown the ball 15-18 times a game.

Yes, but if one is going to believe Clawson was such a big reason, then I think you have to believe some of the talk about how Fulmer was overruling him a lot. Again I think it's some of both. I don't think Clawson was a great fit but I can totally believe Fulmer was controlling too much of the offense.

I guess the biggest problem I have is Clawson seems to be put in the same category of bad as Sunseri by some, and I think that's crazy unfair.

 

[fade route]

PS - the right coach to hire in 2009 was on campus this week, btw.

You my friend are a glittering jewel of idiocy if you think Gruden was or ever will coach here.

 

[Aesius]

Larry, do you think Fulmer would have accepted the UT job if it had become completely toxic after Dooley and even coaches like CBJ turned it down?

I do remember him tweeting something like "Well...." after it was announced that Butch was hired, but he deleted the tweet soon after. I wonder if he thought that Hart might give him a call.

 

[orangeluvr]

Duh!!!!!!

I realize that Phil had gotten complacent. However; had he hired the right offensive co ordinator, then we would have had a respectable season in 2008. Maybe an 8 or 9 win season. We finished with 5 wins. With the proper hire at Offensive Co ordinator, we beat UCLA, Auburn & Wyoming to give us 8 wins and a bowl game. With a bowl win, we get 9 wins for the season.

Then he had some recruits coming in from that recruiting cycle. Of course, we never know if those new recruits would translate to performance on the field.

For instance, Daniel Brooks & Donald were all highly recruited and they didn't meet expectations.

I think that if he had hired the right offensive co ordinator, then he could have had about 3 more seasons in him.

Agree, the "Clawfense" was an absolute disaster .

 

[orangeluvr]

PS - the right coach to hire in 2009 was on campus this week, btw.

The man didn't want the job. :no:

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Larry, do you think Fulmer would have accepted the UT job if it had become completely toxic after Dooley and even coaches like CBJ turned it down?

I do remember him tweeting something like "Well...." after it was announced that Butch was hired, but he deleted the tweet soon after. I wonder if he thought that Hart might give him a call.

Guys like Clay Travis were really pushing it. I think it was probably the best case scenario if Jones had said no.

 

[oregonvol]

You obviously don't know why majors was fired. It had zero to do with his record!!!!!!!!!!! Good grief......get it right!:banghead2:

So, you felt that we should have kept Majors, based on his record, then?

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

He's never been seriously pursued even after publicly saying he would like to coach again. You can keep calling me dumb if you want, but I'm right as usual.

It's this particular argument that is dumb, not you personally. But the "why hasn't he been hired?" is probably even dumber than "well, we just didn't get the hire right..."

Larry is exactly right on this - Fulmer has fielded several calls; Dungy personally called / visited on the Minnesota job. He looked at Louisville early, he said he was still ready to coach immediately after the firing, but he changed his mind PDQ afterwards.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

The man didn't want the job. :no:

No, Hart didn't want him here. Perhaps a powerful booster as well. But the former is certainly true.

If you are replacing your HoF coach, then you have to have an AD who can convince a Gruden-level coach to come. Sit-on-hands Hart is not that guy. Hambone is clearly not that guy.

Neither Butch nor Donnie Knoxville were his top three choices, but we have to see how it plays out. He may be the blind squirrel who finds the acorn.

 

[BeattieFeathers]

So, you felt that we should have kept Majors, based on his record, then?

What are you twelve? He was not fired because of his record!!! His record has nothing to do with it. Majors was at the apex of his ut career. He won the sec in '89 and '90 and to a fiesta bowl in '91.

 

[oregonvol]

What are you twelve? He was not fired because of his record!!! His record has nothing to do with it. Majors was at the apex of his ut career. He won the sec in '89 and '90 and to a fiesta bowl in '91.

What are you, 5? Why are you unable to answer my question? It's really simple. Did you feel that Majors should have remained coach, based on his record?

Also, since you have all the inside scoop, please post it with links to your sources.

Thanks.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Yes, but if one is going to believe Clawson was such a big reason, then I think you have to believe some of the talk about how Fulmer was overruling him a lot. Again I think it's some of both. I don't think Clawson was a great fit but I can totally believe Fulmer was controlling too much of the offense.

I guess the biggest problem I have is Clawson seems to be put in the same category of bad as Sunseri by some, and I think that's crazy unfair.

I definitely don't put Clawson in the same category as Sunseri. Clawson is a head coach at a power conference school. The only similarity is that they were the final nail in the proverbial coffins of 2 coaches. The scary thing is Dooley can be mentioned in the same sentence as Fulmer, as being the Head Football coach at The University of Tennessee.

 

[LWSVOL]

Yes, but if one is going to believe Clawson was such a big reason, then I think you have to believe some of the talk about how Fulmer was overruling him a lot. Again I think it's some of both. I don't think Clawson was a great fit but I can totally believe Fulmer was controlling too much of the offense.

I guess the biggest problem I have is Clawson seems to be put in the same category of bad as Sunseri by some, and I think that's crazy unfair.

the offensive leadership went to Fulmer at the end of September and begged him to take over the offense. He wouldn't do so.

That doesn't mean he had nothing to do with the offense but he did have anymore input to Clawson's offense than any other coordinator that worked for him. And yes, he changed Cutcliffe plays from time to time.

 

[YankeeVol]

No. Should of brought in a better replacement.

This. The way the situation was handled was a mess.

 

[LWSVOL]

I don't get why people blame Clawson so much. He's seemed to do fine after he left here.

I agree it was not Clawson's fault. The fault was the situation. It was the first major change in the offense at Tennessee in decades.

The players struggled to adapt and get proficient in the system. Some of the staff struggled with it. To Dave's credit he told everyone it would take 2 years for the system to be efficient. I heard him say that myself.

 

[OrangeInKy]

OP, so you are saying Fulmer made a bad OC hire and should have had more time with a new OC? Clawson has had a ton of success since UT and before UT. You do the math.